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Elite Damages in Low Level Instances Too Low

B

Brunste

Authorized
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
In the short time I've been on this server, I have done the dungeons Deadmines, Stockades, Shadowfang Keep, Razorfen Kraul, and Gnomeregan. While doing these dungeons, I found that the damage done by elite mobs is extremely low compared to the damage output of other elite mobs in the world. Some mobs inside dungeons hit for amount similar to non-elite mobs of the same level.

Has anyone else experienced these same problems? Can someone comment on whether or not this is a problem at level 60 dungeons as well? I am not sure I want to play on a server where the damage values are so much lower than they should be.
 
This is the first time I've heard this complaint, and I can't say that I've experienced any dungeon being unnaturally easy when doing it at the appropriate level. Not here or on competing servers.

A few details would be appreciated. Such as, what level were you (or the tank) compared to the elites, what do you play, which particular elites are you noticing this with (casters, melee, trash, boss, ...), did you do the comparison with roughly the same level difference/buffs/items, do you have any evidence that dungeon elites should hit harder than they currently do, or whatever else that might be relevant.
 
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I can agree that i have had world elites hit a lot harder than instanced elites in my experience.

To say that the values are too low however requires some pretty substantial proof other than just the way you feel.

60 instances feel correct to me but i couldnt say for sure if the damage is correct. I think buffing mob damage in 60 dungeons and even in lower would be a bad idea however.
 
You can't say you haven't noticed, because the damage of (most) world elites vs. instance elites is just bullshit. Seriously, go outside SM Cath and check out how hard the elite outside the instance hits for, then go in and check out how hard the last boss which is ~10 levels higher hits.

It's A LOT harder to get into BFD than actually doing the instance. I'd say getting into BFD at lvl 24 is harder than BWL.
 
Rolexsweep said:
You can't say you haven't noticed, because the damage of (most) world elites vs. instance elites is just bullshit. Seriously, go outside SM Cath and check out how hard the elite outside the instance hits for, then go in and check out how hard the last boss which is ~10 levels higher hits.

It's A LOT harder to get into BFD than actually doing the instance. I'd say getting into BFD at lvl 24 is harder than BWL.
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Since the question was about dungeon elites doing too low damage compared to undefined world elites (not the other way around), that's what I answered. That said, it has been a while since I did dungeons, so things could have changed, or what I think of as normal could be wrong - hence why details and evidence of damage in retail would be appreciated.
 
From my understanding, doing dungeons at low-levels were moderately difficult for groups of that level. Right now, I am easily able to pull 5-6 elites of my level and be completely fine.

Regardless, I'm going to head in game and bring back some screenshots of mob damage. See just how dungeon damage compares to non-dungeon non-elite damage.

Wish me luck!
 
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Back with some screenshots from Gnomeregan. Keep in mind I am a level 32 Warrior with 1439 armor (31.6% damage reduction).

Here is my combat log when fighting a level 25 non-elite mob just outside the instance:
dGqypEO.png


Here is my combat log when fighting a level 26 elite mob just outside the instance:
pgXCZss.png


And finally, here is my combat log when fighting a level 25 elite mob inside the instance:
WePsWAP.png


Average Damages from just screenshots:
Level 25 Non-Elite Outside: 24.88 damage a hit.
Level 26 Elite Outside: 124.75 damage a hit.
Level 25 Elite Inside: 43.42 damage a hit.

Is any higher level able to check the values of higher level dungeons (BRD, BRS, Scholo, Strath) to compare these values to them? I'm curious as to see if 60 dungeons have similar ratios.
 
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I'll trust you on the damage distribution, what I'm truly curious about is if the dungeon elite values actually are too low (as you claim) - considering that pre-dungeon elites are usually spread out and can be pulled alone, and dungeon elites often come in packs. I've been googling a bit already with no luck, I'll continue with it a little later.

Unfortunately there's no sign of the two Irradiated elites in the WoW Bestiary, but I'll try to have a look at some other dungeon/pre-dungeon elites.
 
It may be caused by wrong elite mark on actualy nonelite mobs. But this needs deeper research.
However, it's not global bug. I remember tanking Deadmines month ago and my 20 lvl warrior recieved aroud 80 dmg per mob which is, in my opinion, enough for lvl 20.
 
Aieris said:
I know, that zombies in Strat Ud hit for 350-500 to leather (20% reduction)
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How does this compare to the damage of mobs outside of the instance? Or just regular 60 elites?

Zindai said:
what I'm truly curious about is if the dungeon elite values actually are too low (as you claim)
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Unfortunately, I do not have much solid evidence besides that all low level dungeons feel incredibly easy. It'd be easy to find out if we had a source for mob damage.


Aieris said:
It may be caused by wrong elite mark on actualy nonelite mobs. But this needs deeper research.
However, it's not global bug. I remember tanking Deadmines month ago and my 20 lvl warrior recieved aroud 80 dmg per mob which is, in my opinion, enough for lvl 20.
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When I did Deadmines on my warrior they were hitting for much less than 80 damage a mob. Here is a link to a video I posted a while ago about a normal elite mob's damage compared to VanCleef's damage.
 
Brunste said:
When I did Deadmines on my warrior they were hitting for much less than 80 damage a mob. Here is a link to a video I posted a while ago about a normal elite mob's damage compared to VanCleef's damage.
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(Removed a lot of text where I'm basically talking to myself.)

I checked out your VC report, and Krambulli did confirm my suspicion that pre-dungeon elites are doing too much damage.

Here are some videos for comparison on the VC fight. Granted, they're from TBC and WotLK, but it looks like VC himself isn't hitting for that much either in the TBC one - I think I see the tank dropping around 15 health at one point when tanking only him. The WotLK rogue is taking 20-40 hits mostly.

Also... is it just me or does it seem like VC is missing you very often in your video? The random 5-6 hits could be related to that somehow.
 
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Zindai said:
Also... is it just me or does it seem like VC is missing you very often in your video? The random 5-6 hits could be related to that somehow.
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Oh right. I forgot the mention that on Kronos, mob off-hand attacks are actually scripting (amazing actually). The super super low hits (1-10) and frequent misses are just his off-hand attacks.
 
Im going to borrow this thread for a sec to ask something; where did the changelogs go? The last complete log is from May: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?fixreport=show-set&id=17.
Where can we keep track of all the updates? According to "Latest Fixes" under Twinstar > Vanilla under Changelog (500), the only changes the last month have been some tiny hotfixes like added/corrected missing text and some level requirements for quests. But surely Kronos staff have fixed alot more things than that, but no logs, why?
 
We've had a number of people discussing this and asking about it in Gchat, am interested to hear how this develops
 
Magnifican said:
Im going to borrow this thread for a sec to ask something; where did the changelogs go? The last complete log is from May: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?fixreport=show-set&id=17.
Where can we keep track of all the updates? According to "Latest Fixes" under Twinstar > Vanilla under Changelog (500), the only changes the last month have been some tiny hotfixes like added/corrected missing text and some level requirements for quests. But surely Kronos staff have fixed alot more things than that, but no logs, why?
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Filter for fixed/need retest/need update in the bug tracker
 
krutopatkin said:
Filter for fixed/need retest/need update in the bug tracker
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Still, why stop with the logs as they had until May I wonder? I thought they were very good and kept things collected for the players to see just how much they actually fix. But ye, it's not hard to filter through the tracker either I guess. Thanks for answer!
 
This is an interesting topic for sure. I have noticed the same and, actually, noticed it first with SM as well.

I will test this tonight with some of the higher level dungeons. I have ran BRD many times but haven't tested the mob damage outside vs inside. That's really the only one we can test as Scholo, Strat and DM don't have true mobs linked to the instance that are just outside. BRD would be a decent test, though.
 
Druzzil said:
This is an interesting topic for sure. I have noticed the same and, actually, noticed it first with SM as well.

I will test this tonight with some of the higher level dungeons. I have ran BRD many times but haven't tested the mob damage outside vs inside. That's really the only one we can test as Scholo, Strat and DM don't have true mobs linked to the instance that are just outside. BRD would be a decent test, though.
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Be sure to keep me updated. I am very concerned about leveling to 60 on this server with this still being an issue.
 
Druzzil said:
This is an interesting topic for sure. I have noticed the same and, actually, noticed it first with SM as well.

I will test this tonight with some of the higher level dungeons. I have ran BRD many times but haven't tested the mob damage outside vs inside. That's really the only one we can test as Scholo, Strat and DM don't have true mobs linked to the instance that are just outside. BRD would be a decent test, though.
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Could check the mobs outside of UBRS/LBRS and the ones inside.
 
Since it's already been admitted that elites outside instances hit too hard, it'd be more interesting if you could compare elites inside dungeons to text or video sources.
 
Actualy, we need to discover, if elites in dungeons hit for too low or if elites outside hit too hard.
 
Both could be true at the same time.

In any case, comparing them only to each other won't give us the Blizzard values...
 
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World elites outside instances hit too hard, this isn't even up for discussion. Anyone remember doing the Jintha'Alor elite quests in Hinterlands? The elites could easily wipe of 95% of a cloth user's health pool in a single melee attack and 2/3-shot a tank/voidwalker.

It's more interesting to see if instance-mobs hit for too low amounts.
 
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