World boss same faction griefing - against rules or not?

So... as the title says. Is griefing guilds from same faction allowed or not?

And what about lvl1/2 alts that you can log in whenever you want to heal Kazzak up that are being used against us for a while now. I've been told that "GMs said it's not illegal". So it's okay if I go and plant 100 lvl1 alts all over the zone? Because if you let this abuse against our guild go just like that I am going to do it. I'll make army of griefing alts, as it seems there doesn't seem to be any protection from staff on this matter.

Any staff member who can answer this?

While you're at it please clarify the rules for level 1 alts in general.
One day we got a post in world chat about how mechazod had invented the rule (which is nowhere to be found) that you could no longer have "low level alts in high level zones", which was later clarified to "you may not spy on black lotuses" by other GMs, but not before world boss spies had already been ported out of their zones.

You had two GMs going against one another, and doling out judgements for rules created 5 seconds before said judgement was dealt. This looks extremely unprofessional, and it makes players unsure about what is actually against the rules.

On topic: Make specific rules about interfaction griefing already. This was not allowed on retail, and should definately not be allowered here where making more accounts is so very easy.

bl4ckc0d3r said:

So it's okay if I go and plant 100 lvl1 alts all over the zone? Because if you let this abuse against our guild go just like that I am going to do it. I'll make army of griefing alts

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I thought Vanguard already did that?

:crying:

Those are summon alts, not grief alts.

But I hope that screenshot serves to show how determined we are and that we are not joking.

bl4ckc0d3r said:

But I hope that screenshot serves to show how determined we are and that we are not joking.

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Be careful with things that could be interpreted as a threat towards the staff.

Peasemold said:

Be careful with things that could be interpreted as a threat towards the staff.

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It's a threat towards other guilds who keep griefing us for weeks now. And we are asking staff where the line is drawn? Can we expect some protection from that or are we left only to ourselves to employ all means necessary to defend ourselves.

Either by coincidence or divine intervention you seem to have been receiving protection for quite some time now. :blushing:

Dig up the bluepost yourself.
Blizz said:
PvE Server -> same faction griefing, no no
PvP Server -> same faction griefing, yes yes

I'm okay if they forbid it, but its hard to determine if it was actually griefing or accidential.

Why should the staff protect anyone from world boss contention? Do you expect them to port away/ban other guilds low level characters but not your own just because you say they are for summoning? (which, unless you have your summon alts on the same accounts as your main characters, raises the same issue with account creation being freely available to abuse)

Lharts said:

I'm okay if they forbid it, but its hard to determine if it was actually griefing or accidential.

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I have video footage (recorded everything from the time we arrived there till he died) of a lvl60 alliance warlock going to Kazzak and standing there right next to the boss to be killed by shadow bolt and thunderclap during one of our attempts. Accident? Don't think so.

I am asking if it's allowed or not so I know if I should make a report or not.

It's a level 60 you're whining about? Then there is no issue.

Peasemold said:

Why should the staff protect anyone from world boss contention? Do you expect them to port away/ban other guilds low level characters but not your own just because you say they are for summoning? (which, unless you have your summon alts on the same accounts as your main characters, raises the same issue with account creation being freely available to abuse)

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Can you show evidence of Vanguard employing such tactics against other guilds? Constantly using low level characters of the same faction as the guild that is trying to kill Kazzak to grief them to no end? Of course you cannot, because we don't do stuff like that.

I have all that happening to us tonight recorded.

Anyway, this is becoming just bickering where you are trying to find any little thing you can in an attempt to invalidate good questions we raised in first two posts of this thread. Therefore I will no longer reply to your taunts and I will wait for a staff member to come forward with official stand regarding these issues.

I'm not a hyper vigilant paranoid type so I don't record all my game play.

My point was all they have is your word that you do not use them for anything but summoning (which again is an issue with abusing account creation freedom).

And the repair bills of my guild members and myself would suggest we used our 60s against you. It was extremely fun.

If both parties don't come out with black eyes, missing teeth, and broken fingers than we're not doing this right. The pleasure of slogging it out win or lose is the name of the game. We have had Horde and Alliance grief our Azuregos and Kazzak kills. Nothing new here, no salt, no pampering, no whining... just business as usual. Just crank up some Motorhead and fight for hours not over the really bad quality epics but the thrill of the kill.

Vanguard plays dirty as well, don't act like you're saints.

It's funny that the moment something doesn't swing your favor you are looking to change the rules and get the tides turned your way. Horde side sits through all of the shit that you dish out without whimpering and whining and the majority of us move on and keep fighting. No guild or person is privy to special treatment, it is an equal playing field so stop acting like you are the victim.

Honestly, contention of world bosses doesn't bother me at all. However when in response to losing a boss or out of vengeance you go and camp lowbie alts from guilds involved incessantly it becomes something of a bit of an annoyance and feels childish.

OnslaughtFei said:

Nothing new here, no salt, no pampering, no whining... just business as usual. Just crank up some Motorhead and fight for hours not over the really bad quality epics but the thrill of the kill.

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The salt in this post actually seems quite high. The subsequent raid on Ironforge and the Onslaught guild effort to grief leaders of alliance guilds and camp their low level alts leads me to believe that it wasn't "Extremely fun" to lose another world boss to the alliance, as Peasemold put it.

I'm all for contesting world bosses and running your raid into the opposing faction's raid in an attempt to wipe them is fine and can be a lot of fun. However, due to the unique mechanic of Kazzak, I feel that the issue of level 1 armies wiping Kazzak attempts definitely needs to be addressed by the server staff as it isn't raid vs raid or pvp of any kind, just pure griefing that is made easier by the fact that you can have an unlimited number of accounts on this server. As we all know, you had to pay to have an active account on live so you didn't see problems like this arising as much.

Asmodeus said:

The salt in this post actually seems quite high. The subsequent raid on Ironforge and the Onslaught guild effort to grief leaders of alliance guilds and camp their low level alts leads me to believe that it wasn't "Extremely fun" to lose another world boss to the alliance, as Peasemold put it.

I'm all for contesting world bosses and running your raid into the opposing faction's raid in an attempt to wipe them is fine and can be a lot of fun. However, due to the unique mechanic of Kazzak, I feel that the issue of level 1 armies wiping Kazzak attempts definitely needs to be addressed by the server staff as it isn't raid vs raid or pvp of any kind, just pure griefing that is made easier by the fact that you can have an unlimited number of accounts on this server. As we all know, you had to pay to have an active account on live so you didn't see problems like this arising as much.

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Yeah I'm so salty, you got us all figured out. No harm, I'm just gonna stew in some salt. I have no pride in it either way.

Not sure who was raiding Ironforge but it was literally no one from Onslaught but I do commend everyone involved. I also find it amusing that your low levels alts accuse us in whispers of suiciding low levels, yet we don't plant summoners and clickers everywhere.

Also, we don't single out or target Alliance guild leaders, as we privately spoke in the past there is nothing personal. To give some perspective there are plenty of people that engage us in world PVP, especially guilds that like to bite back like Irae. Stop thinking you got a giant target on your head. We're out there every night camping someone.

OnslaughtFei said:

Yeah I'm so salty, you got us all figured out. No harm, I'm just gonna stew in some salt. I have no pride in it either way.

Not sure who was raiding Ironforge but it was literally no one from Onslaught but I do commend everyone involved. I also find it amusing that your low levels alts accuse us in whispers of suiciding low levels, yet we don't plant summoners and clickers everywhere.

Also, we don't single out or target Alliance guild leaders, as we privately spoke in the past there is nothing personal. To give some perspective there are plenty of people that engage us in world PVP, especially guilds that like to bite back like Irae. Stop thinking you got a giant target on your head. We're out there every night camping someone.

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It's not exactly world PvP, having alliance characters is easy for horde so they login, check locations of lowbies, and camp them just because we belong to guilds they have "beef" with, IMO is indeed griefing. Sure, it's not ban-worthy or "wrong" per-say, it's just disappointing that the situation is such that your 60s killing 40s-50s is seen as "world PvP".

Honestly, these are some of the same people who are "helping" Mcdaggers in Silithus by killing any other player aside from him. It all just wreaks of unsportsman-like conduct, I guess, not really in the spirit of the game.

Zipzo said:

It's not exactly world PvP, having alliance characters is easy for horde so they login, check locations of lowbies, and camp them just because we belong to guilds they have "beef" with, IMO is indeed griefing. Sure, it's not ban-worthy or "wrong" per-say, it's just disappointing that the situation is such that your 60s killing 40s-50s is seen as "world PvP".

Honestly, these are some of the same people who are "helping" Mcdaggers in Silithus by killing any other player aside from him. It all just wreaks of unsportsman-like conduct, I guess, not really in the spirit of the game.

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We have no affiliation with McNuggets and as far as I'm concerned he is and always has been Kill on Sight. Our guys have been bloodthirsty and itching to retaliate against Vanguard and friends after a rather poor attempt to interfere with our pre-raid ritual last week. We quite welcome the brawl and the ganking and our whole guild is on alert when one of our alts or brothers is attacked.

You can label us all you want, but the fact remains until Alliance starts queueing for battlegrounds when our guild is most active we will find the PVP if it doesn't come to us first.

OnslaughtFei said:

You can label us all you want, but the fact remains until Alliance starts queueing for battlegrounds when our guild is most active we will find the PVP if it doesn't come to us first.

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I wasn't aware that running level 1's into kazzak, griefing low level players and using multiple pvpers to camp 1 person who isn't even trying to fight back is considered pvp. Sir, it seems to me that you are unaware that you are the gm of the trolliest and most unsportsmanlike guild on the server.

Asmodeus said:

I wasn't aware that running level 1's into kazzak, griefing low level players and using multiple pvpers to camp 1 person who isn't even trying to fight back is considered pvp. Sir, it seems to me that you are unaware that you are the gm of the trolliest and most unsportsmanlike guild on the server.

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Why is it assumed that we were running level 1 alts? You do realize there were fractions of 3 seperate horde guilds there. And who is to say they weren't Alliance alts?

The pot is calling the kettle black, my friend. And I'm the salty one? You see, with 100% honesty there has never been any animosity between Onslaught and any Alliance guild, but you are forging a strong case to make our life on this server a lot more interesting and amusing. We accept that we will break our own bones and receive these black eyes, we have been since the beginning. You must understand when you have less than 30 Alliance 60s online in the entire world and half are AFK in Ironforge there is only so much to bite from.

Unsportsman-like? Maybe. I can accept that. Fighting fair and with reputation and honor is for duels. The fact that we have each others backs and your guild doesn't isn't our problem. Our alts get ganked and camped too, we never forget about it and we don't whine about it. We just hit back.

Trolly? There are worse guilds on the Horde side for trolling. But you can call us whatever pleases you, Asmo. We really know nothing about CORAL other than what you show us, and that is a lot of whining.

never saw salty thread when vanguard griefed others

You don't seem to get it so I feel like I am forced to reply again despite saying I won't. Vanguard has never used same faction alts (unkillable by the guild trying to kill Lord Kazzak) to grief anyone in the full sense of the word by suiciding on the boss. What you are probably talking about, tofa077, is Vanguard fighting horde and not letting them get the kill. You are completely missing the point. That is called world boss PvP.

When we talk about griefing here, it means ruining the kill attempts of same faction guilds by performing actions they cant counter, like suiciding on purpose knowing they can't stop you because you are of same faction. Or, in case of <McONSLAUGHT>, using alliance lvl2 characters to do the same, knowing we cannot fight alliance off.

So, now that you hopefully understand what griefing means, can you tell me (and provide evidence of your claims of course) what alliance guild has Vanguard ever griefed? Or, what horde guild has Vanguard ever attacked with low level horde alts (not that I ever remember us using any type of low level alts against horde except when the spy alts die in case horde doesn't kill them before pull; we arrive there with our mains within minutes of discovering world boss being spawned anyway) at Lord Kazzak?

On the other hand... http://i.imgur.com/e04nP0D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U573Hm4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/i2xrepy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EU2l6Kf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1BxmFAN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Id6k4z3.jpg

Vanguard is competing with other guilds for world bosses in a respectful and honorable manner - we do not interfere with other Alliance guilds' attempts, and we show no mercy (by any legit means) to horde of course. What we get in return is griefing and baseless accusations here.