Mage Vanilla Mage PVP - Legacy

I guess all of us have seen at least on of those Vanilla Mage movies from Voidim, Otherguy, Vurtne and others.

But one thing I understood now is that those videos were actually detrimental to my development as a pvp player. In Vanilla Mages could beat nearly anyone with 4-5 spells. But after playing Cataclysm, then Pandaria, I understood that I was useless.

In Modern WoW, casters actually invite melee classes in range because there is no other way. But for me it was hardest thing to adapt. I thought I could beat people with 5 spells and one thing was necessary - stay far away from melee classes. I was always getting owned, always.

I don't know. My friend who loved to play Frost Mage left WoW because it was getting too hard. Otherguy, Vurtne and others also left WoW because it was hard for them. There was no more easy win with "frost nova+frost bolt+silence+cone of cold+fireblast".

It is an interesting concept. Did you guys who played mage left playing mage altogether in future expansions?

Yeah frost is pretty stupid in vanilla, fine in BC and a bit lackluster in wotlk. Dont know much beyond that. I enjoyed playing mage on wotlk the most.. Fast paced fights with a lot of mechanics.

SeeQ said:

Yeah frost is pretty stupid in vanilla, fine in BC and a bit lackluster in wotlk. Dont know much beyond that. I enjoyed playing mage on wotlk the most.. Fast paced fights with a lot of mechanics.

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It is unfair that most people thought Vurtne was better than Otherguy just because he used the Stupidly OP Frost Spec while Otherguy tried a harder hybrid spec. Have you seen Voidim videos? He is killing people with 5 spells - Frost Nova+Silence+Frostbolt+PomFrostbolt+Fireblast. He has peaceful music on and shows that he can basically kill half of Alterac Valley one by one without any "mana reg" problems(the video is continuous).

TBC gave mages another faceroll spell called Ice Lance. I guess Wotlk was good, but I played from Cataclysm and after nerf to fire Mage, I had to switch to frost and in Pandaria I was getting totally owned.

Too many stuns and gap closers, warriors basically "build houses on casters" during fights. And mages are only classes without healing as well.

After playing mage in Vanilla and TBC, I had no chance of competing against anyone in Pandaria.

I should say that Vanilla Frost Mage Legacy has been detrimental to me and I have never recovered from that. I will play something else on Kronos.

I see your point OP.

vanilla mages were something else. although I think if you play on Kronos, the people playing in the present day will be more aware of how to deal with it. Play together with a priest that dispels roots / stuns / slows. Or gets in a good silence. And the position of the mage might not be so dominant as back in the day.

If you run into a good mage in a 1 on 1 situation somewhere it will be a dejavu of days long gone by though ^^

Vanilla did leave some classes a bit in the rain pvp wise, like the poor old druid did not have good offense.(Hard to kill though that is for sure) I also thought priests could be dangerous, but it would be quite important that they had some decent gear. (a mage or rogue that knew what they were doing could be effective even with hobo green gear.)

I think if the community talks english on kronos and the realm is truly as well scripted as promise. We might see some pvp legends in this server of our own ^^
I really hope to see a new made pvp vanilla movie after a few months, with some rock/metal tunes blasting along to it yeehaw!

Otherguylb said:

Vurtne and others also left WoW because it was hard for them.

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sure....

but it would be quite important that they had some decent gear.

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eh priest doesn't really need all that much gear, shield barely scales with +heal anyway and dispel doesn't at all, and those are your two most important abilities anyway.

Also druid is by far the best flag carrier and arguably the class that can carry on its own the best, that's the thing about vanilla every class has distinct advantages and disadvantages as opposed to the homogenization in later expansions.

Why would 1v1 in anyways matter in an mmo?

Vanilla mage is fun to play. Its in no way stronger or weaker then any other class. Every strength or weakness is highly situational in this game.

krutopatkin said:

eh priest doesn't really need all that much gear, shield barely scales with +heal anyway and dispel doesn't at all, and those are your two most important abilities anyway.

Also druid is by far the best flag carrier and arguably the class that can carry on its own the best, that's the thing about vanilla every class has distinct advantages and disadvantages as opposed to the homogenization in later expansions.

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oooh I forgot about druids in WSG thanks for refreshing my memory lol

Breda said:

sure....

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Why else? It is a wild guess that they "did not like the game". But what they did not like? The lore is excellent in every expansion! They preferred solo pvp so I don't think reduction of social aspect mattered to them. Only thing that's left is PVP. They did not like pvp. And why? Because of Healers being raid bosses? And possibly much more.


Lharts
Please man, don't talk like you have never played vanilla. Rogues and Mages were OP in World PVP but as a healer I would prefer to heal warrior while in BG-s. Every class had some strengths and weaknesses. Smart Mages rarely touched BG-s because they knew they were Gods against level 56-59 in high level zones.



Karbonkel

Of course we will be more prepared for mages. All I was saying that playing mage during some part of Vanilla and TBC hindered my development as a pvp player greatly because it was too easy and after play-style changed I was getting owned. I know I could always play warrior as their play-style never changed and especially Arms warrior is a joke in Pandaria.

I remember playing Discipline Priest against Fear-Spamming Affliction Warlocks, I was developing as a player a lot at that time.

[video=youtube;SKLb1WB57bA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLb1WB57bA[/video]

You know this guy? handle this dmg 1on1

Knox said:

[video=youtube;SKLb1WB57bA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLb1WB57bA[/video]

You know this guy? handle this dmg 1on1

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Great movie.
How you doing GM Dejayz?

I've always wondered why people are so obsessed with Mage in Vanilla when a well played Soul Link Warlock is probably the most powerful single class overall and extremely frustrating to play against. No one made videos back then of Soul Link locks, I can only recall one (the one that made me start playing the class).

which video? could you link it? i'm curious!

Occult said:

I've always wondered why people are so obsessed with Mage in Vanilla when a well played Soul Link Warlock is probably the most powerful single class overall and extremely frustrating to play against. No one made videos back then of Soul Link locks, I can only recall one (the one that made me start playing the class).

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Because its reaaaaaaally boring to watch and to play. It also takes far less skill.

And to the OP, you have no idea, pretending classes are harder now, you just need to smash buttons until your screen blinks in the middle to smash buttons even more to do instants all day.

Lharts
Please man, don't talk like you have never played vanilla. Rogues and Mages were OP in World PVP but as a healer I would prefer to heal warrior while in BG-s. Every class had some strengths and weaknesses. Smart Mages rarely touched BG-s because they knew they were Gods against level 56-59 in high level zones.

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Nobody denies Mages and Rogues are the best world PvP class, (except for geared Soul Link warlocks), that's the thing about the advantages and disadvantages every class has in vanilla. BGs are a different story, and that's where the Honor is at. (both literally and figuratively)

Soul Link warlocks or any other warlocks were easily countered by rogues. Plus geared frost mages destroyed them. Voidim in his videos shows few encounters with Warlocks. He kills them in just few seconds. Yes, warlocks in full epics get smashed in 4-5 seconds. Frost nova+Silence+Frostbolt+PomFrostbolt+Cone of Cold+FireBlast. This was 2k+2k+1.2k+0.8k damage, which is 5k hp in just 1 frostbolt and other instant casts spells.


The main problem with mages or rogues was not the actual encounter. Sure I will drink free action potion and good luck. The problem is that they can polymorph you and run away if they are afraid of losing. Simple as that.

and also:

Ven

Arms warriors are definitely easy, as well as Feral Druids, Death Knights and Paladins. In Pandaria only classes that require some effort are mages and Elemental Shamans. The problem is that unless you are extremely tanky(like warlock), as a caster you have to be uber skilled.

Occult said:

I've always wondered why people are so obsessed with Mage in Vanilla when a well played Soul Link Warlock is probably the most powerful single class overall and extremely frustrating to play against. No one made videos back then of Soul Link locks, I can only recall one (the one that made me start playing the class).

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http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=235593

Soul link lock when played well is the strongest class in vanilla 1v1. Insanely high resistances, insanely high hp, huge mana pool, and the edgiest class in the online roleplaying sensation, world of warcraft.

Really not a great spec for WSG though.

Otherguylb said:

Yes, warlocks in full epics get smashed in 4-5 seconds.

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Gear just means he plays a lot nothing else..
Also fuck SL, all about that succubus destro baby, either you crit some or die trying. And I think that sort of rng is what SL lacks, and makes it easy for some opponents

ironervousides said:

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=235593

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Please people dont bring out old ass videos as to prove anything, that backpedal in the first seconds is a proof enough of how far were people from being good

SeeQ said:

Please people dont bring out old ass videos as to prove anything, that backpedal in the first seconds is a proof enough of how far were people from being good

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http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=235615

It was more of a point of how resilient warlocks were with drain tanking+huge resistances. He does end up killing 2 undead mages several times during the video because of the amount of partial resists they hit.

You could enjoy the video, or not. I don't care.

SeeQ said:

Gear just means he plays a lot nothing else..
Also fuck SL, all about that succubus destro baby, either you crit some or die trying. And I think that sort of rng is what SL lacks, and makes it easy for some opponents

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Succubus Destro was good combo. But Voidim in his videos shows that you can actually silence the succubus instead and then use frost nova+stun bomb on warlock to set up 5k burst in matter of seconds.

You realize that Frostbolt crit with full GM gear was around 2.3k+ with Spell Power trinket? You use 2 in a row with Presence of Mind, follow with cone of cold and fireblast and enemy just evaporates. That's literally 6k damage in 4 seconds.

So ya a skilled and gear Frost Mage is only countred by Free Action Potion, but even then he will just polymorph you and run way. You wasted a potion that required hours of farming.

Otherguylb said:

Succubus Destro was good combo. But Voidim in his videos shows that you can actually silence the succubus instead and then use frost nova+stun bomb on warlock to set up 5k burst in matter of seconds.

You realize that Frostbolt crit with full GM gear was around 2.3k+ with Spell Power trinket? You use 2 in a row with Presence of Mind, follow with cone of cold and fireblast and enemy just evaporates. That's literally 6k damage in 4 seconds.

So ya a skilled and gear Frost Mage is only countred by Free Action Potion, but even then he will just polymorph you and run way. You wasted a potion that required hours of farming.

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without icebarrier you will find a lot of problem from hunter,warlock,priest,druid

Otherguylb said:

Succubus Destro was good combo. But Voidim in his videos shows that you can actually silence the succubus instead and then use frost nova+stun bomb on warlock to set up 5k burst in matter of seconds.

You realize that Frostbolt crit with full GM gear was around 2.3k+ with Spell Power trinket? You use 2 in a row with Presence of Mind, follow with cone of cold and fireblast and enemy just evaporates. That's literally 6k damage in 4 seconds.

So ya a skilled and gear Frost Mage is only countred by Free Action Potion, but even then he will just polymorph you and run way. You wasted a potion that required hours of farming.

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Ok, let's play it out then.

Succubus puts initial seduce on mage, since mage cannot see succubus due to invis. I'm assuming your mage also has iceblock, so he can waste that, or a trinket to get out of it before the soulfire/immo/conflag rape train (which you have zero mitigation for unless you prepopped fire shield).

Now assume you iceblock, the warlock can do one of two things at this point to resume the rape train. He can deathcoil you to protect succubus cast which is safest, or he will fear you (most likely).

best case scenario for the mage is that he does neither, and he tries CSing the succubus, cross your fingers that it doesn't get resisted since the succubus is rolling with 130 resist. A mage in r14 gear will, at best including sageblade/don rodrigo/arcane talent, have 50 spell pen. 80 resistance on top of very low(any?) hit chance makes it a crap shoot whether or not the CS isn't resisted.

Fantastic, CS landed. Now that succubus can't seduce for 10 seconds (unless warlock is fucking WoW jesus and is able to fake cast with his whore demon), you've got a fear coming your way that will last probably long enough for his soul fire/immo/conflag gangtrain to run you over.

but you're smart enough to realize how the fight was going to play out from the start, so PoM poly the warlock beating his fear cast time while succubus is a shitty pet for 10 seconds. Time to fuck that demon up right?

Oh shit, he just used a spellstone/started fearing as you were charging up your frostbolt. You have no answer for his 1.5 second cast, and so he winds up the pain train on you yet again.

Goddamn you're good, you used cold snap and have iceblock up again?

You might still have a chance at this. You've been riding the pine a while, but it looks like Diminishing returns will kick in really soon and succubus will be nothing but a little bit of pushback depending on you keeping mana shield up or not. Unfortunately, you're suffering from poly DRs as well. Your poly will not last long enough to set up any kind of grand slam on the lock, because you're fighting to break through a 900 hp spellshield, 1200 hp healthstone, on top of a conservative 5k hp.

The mage is down many vital cooldowns at this point, and doesn't have an answer to the warlock's drain tanking/hp pool.

I could've talked about engineering and reflectors and all that shit, but why give a deliberate advantage to one player over the other? Not that reflectors would help the mage, as you've given him the spellpower trinket and not using the r2 trinket would be a huge loss in this fight.

1v1 PvP versus equal geared/skilled players is all about matching your cooldowns against your opponent's cooldowns and controlling the fight. No one comes close to the amount of cooldowns a warlock can use. And that's why warlocks are the mushrooms of warcraft, because they stone everyone to death.

Otherguylb said:

But Voidim in his videos shows that you can actually silence the succubus instead and then use frost nova+stun bomb on warlock to set up 5k burst in matter of seconds.

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What if warlock had eng too?
Also those numbers wont be obtained by a lot of peeps.. seems like some people dont even need the server to launch.. they just pvp it out here, knowing exactly the numbers, how the given class reacts and plays

These walls of text are what happens when you try to theorycraft PvP encounters.

Nothing good ever comes out.

I have not watched that video yet but I can say that Warlocks have a lot of untapped resources no one used in classic. Examples are spellstone on use ability and spamming shadowburn on cd, healthstone+pot+tuber goes further with soul link and master demonologist than with any other class. My soul link lock could beat any class 1v1 in classic, and I sucked back then. Im not sure how you lose to any mage as SL lock using fel puppy, the resisits are so high I could take a full barrage from them and be fine. Keep in mind too that lock silence can be used WHILE silenced. There is no way to perfect combo down a lock using his brain.