BFD Testrun - Review, Impressions, Bugs, Opinions

Hi there, we did a BFD run today and all in all it vas a very deceiving experience. It was mostly boring in my opinion.

We (Paladin, Warrior, Hunter, Priest, Druid) went in, levelrange 23-25, everyone green gear and normal talents for that levelrange. No strategy or careful planning necesseray - at all. Only point where we wiped was in The temple of Kelris when we put on all 4 lights at once. This instance needs some serious rework, each mob that is. I will list some concrete issues here, the others may correct me / comment.

A very good guide describing normal problemes encountered in BFD would be this one:
http://wow-pro.com/dungeon_and_raid_guides/2027_blackfathom_deeps_guide


Main Issues:

1. Mob Damage, HP, armor: Practically inexistant. We could easily pull 6-7 mobs, I (Heal - Priest) only had to drink like 4-5 times during the whole run. The only mobs doing real damage are the servants of Aku-Mai towards the end.
2. Lorgalis Manuscript, questitem in a chest, should respawn instantly so everyone might be able to take it and not having to run back every 5 minutes http://www.wowhead.com/item=5359/lorgalis-manuscript
3. Bosses: All notable bosses in the instance deal far too less damage and / or have wrong abilites. Especially the endboss Aku'mai is ridiculess- i didn't have to heal the tank doing that one. Gelihast too, he should hit like a truck, here you can easily pull him with adds... Aside that the following problems:
- Lady Saveres (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=4831/lady-sarevess): No Waypoints / patrol
- Aku'Mai (http://www.wowwiki.com/Aku'mai) : No Waypoints / Patrol
4. Endevent with Lord Kelris: The event can be started correctly, door opens after killing all monsters. However, if you wipe, the mobs will return to their inital spawn positions.

That's it so far from me, good luck

Links for your bugreports would be good to see here

I've also heard that BFD have a lot of geodata problems now. Mobs are flying or drowning often... Is that true?

BFD is 85% Have someone tested 70% Uldaman?
Yea, I know that percentages doesn't mean a lot, but.

Did you make BugReport ? Because is pointless to tell us here. Also did any of you record the Dungeon or atleast the bugged part ?

I went through ulda as 60 lvl rogue and i had problems to handle 3 mobs at once. Bosses that i've met seemed to work well. I was not able to test last two, because you need 3 ppl to complete the ritual for door opening at the end.

I could report evry single NPC, but i won't ^^ You have to easily double values of each mob, especially damage - nothings flying around though.

I'm waiting for my other party members to give their point of view, and yes, one has made a video of it

The report is right.

Mainly damage values are way off.

Submerged mobs had some floating/clipping in areas with water and surfaced temples, like in the beginning before Ghammoo-Ra and next to Old Serra'kis, but only when pulled from high ground (at least from my experience). They'd simply ignore normal pathing and clip through stones etc.

This is the old report from Niedi, which brings more to the table, maybe you should just add your report via comments Liebguckerle.

https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=3062

Yeah, you're right, i've added it to the report , thank you

Great job guys. Those are very important things that needs to be fixed, especially the mob damage values. If mobs don't hit like they're supposed to it ruins the experience. It needs to be checked not only in BFD, but pretty much everywhere. That's a big job.

Liebguckerle said:

Hi there, we did a BFD run today and all in all it vas a very deceiving experience. It was mostly boring in my opinion.

We (Paladin, Warrior, Hunter, Priest, Druid) went in, levelrange 23-25, everyone green gear and normal talents for that levelrange. No strategy or careful planning necesseray - at all. Only point where we wiped was in The temple of Kelris when we put on all 4 lights at once. This instance needs some serious rework, each mob that is. I will list some concrete issues here, the others may correct me / comment.

That's it so far from me, good luck

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Hey Liebguckerleleaerg (fantastic name)

The isssues you had with low dmg mobs, might be due to the fact that you de-leveled from 60 (but kept all your skills at 300)
That would have a dramatic effect on both DPS and Incomming damage.
Can you tell me if that is indeed the case or not?

oi that's a good point i never thought about it myself. i was atleast de-leveled in there and i just tested it now and i do keep my 300 skills. don't know if our tank de-leveled and how much does 300 defense impact i have no idea but he didn't take much damage at all (only if he had 6-8 mobs on him). The only time we took real damage was from the water elemental mobs before the 2nd to last boss that dealt 200 frost damage a pop which is magic damage so not mitigated by the defense.

well, defense skill at 300 vs 25 lvl mobs gives you about 80% avoidance.

Just a point tho... You can't test a dungeon like that. If you want to test low lvl dungeon then make a toon fresh one and lvl it to the exact lvl u want because skills don't delevel. Having 300 skill against lvl 25 mobs is a lot of defense. That's why it's that easy.

Aieris said:

well, defense skill at 300 vs 25 lvl mobs gives you about 80% avoidance.

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I agree was this taken into account from you guys?

So in that case the only issues are a q-item respawn timer, 2 mob patrol paths and an event reset on an event. Seems easy to fix.

Nuh-uh.

As I already explained here.
There were 3 of us who leveled down from 60. Moreover, as I write in the post I linked, while we were all 24-25 and wearing Green gear, we were wearing properly itemized Green items. And, again, as I wrote in the post I linked, even if the damage intake would have quadrupled, we would still have been fine, because these dungeons were originally tuned for semi-AFK, 2-3 Levels below Recommended Level, keyboard turning players who had no idea about the Class they were playing. I.e. fresh 2005 players. No way will there ever be a need for Crowd Control, as some of you expect, in a 2015 party that pays a modicum amount of attention to what they are doing and have a good uptime on buffs/debuffs.

So, I reissue my invitation: if you truly want to test the difficulty of such a dungeon (we were meant to debug it initially), I'll tank it for you, but, this time, let's not use Level 25 Green items, but Level 15 Green items (which are a lot closer to what players on Live will use, due to crappy Classic quest rewards/drops), let's be 22-23, not 25, and, obviously, let's not level down from 60. It'll still be piss easy, but maybe you'll see some damage spikes.


p.s. If you chaps need to lose your shit over nothing, please do so in just 1 thread. This debate has been going on in 3 or 4 already and it is hard to keep track/reply to all. And please be polite to Lieb, while he is, in my opinion, mistaken, his intentions were the very best.

Dalloway said:

Nuh-uh.

As I already explained here.
There were 3 of us who leveled down from 60. Moreover, as I write in the post I linked, while we were all 24-25 and wearing Green gear, we were wearing properly itemized Green items. And, again, as I wrote in the post I linked, even if the damage intake would have quadrupled, we would still have been fine, because these dungeons were originally tuned for semi-AFK, 2-3 Levels below Recommended Level, keyboard turning players who had no idea about the Class they were playing. I.e. fresh 2005 players. No way will there ever be a need for Crowd Control, as some of you expect, in a 2015 party that pays a modicum amount of attention to what they are doing and have a good uptime on buffs/debuffs.

So, I reissue my invitation: if you truly want to test the difficulty of such a dungeon (we were meant to debug it initially), I'll tank it for you, but, this time, let's not use Level 25 Green items, but Level 15 Green items (which are a lot closer to what players on Live will use, due to crappy Classic quest rewards/drops), let's be 22-23, not 25, and, obviously, let's not level down from 60. It'll still be piss easy, but maybe you'll see some damage spikes.


p.s. If you chaps need to lose your shit over nothing, please do so in just 1 thread. This debate has been going on in 3 or 4 already and it is hard to keep track/reply to all. And please be polite to Lieb, while he is, in my opinion, mistaken, his intentions were the very best.

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Woa...calm down my friend.
I don't think i'm was being impolite at all. I was just trying to put 2 and 2 together and perhaps find an explination to why Liebs experience was so unforfilling during his test run.
I don't know why you are taking such offence or feeling obligated to /reply to every thread on this issue.
I would love to do some Dungeon testing with other testers and find out if there is indeed an issue, but finding a group has proven impossible for me

Dalloway said:

Nuh-uh.

As I already explained here.
There were 3 of us who leveled down from 60. Moreover, as I write in the post I linked, while we were all 24-25 and wearing Green gear, we were wearing properly itemized Green items. And, again, as I wrote in the post I linked, even if the damage intake would have quadrupled, we would still have been fine, because these dungeons were originally tuned for semi-AFK, 2-3 Levels below Recommended Level, keyboard turning players who had no idea about the Class they were playing. I.e. fresh 2005 players. No way will there ever be a need for Crowd Control, as some of you expect, in a 2015 party that pays a modicum amount of attention to what they are doing and have a good uptime on buffs/debuffs.

So, I reissue my invitation: if you truly want to test the difficulty of such a dungeon (we were meant to debug it initially), I'll tank it for you, but, this time, let's not use Level 25 Green items, but Level 15 Green items (which are a lot closer to what players on Live will use, due to crappy Classic quest rewards/drops), let's be 22-23, not 25, and, obviously, let's not level down from 60. It'll still be piss easy, but maybe you'll see some damage spikes.


p.s. If you chaps need to lose your shit over nothing, please do so in just 1 thread. This debate has been going on in 3 or 4 already and it is hard to keep track/reply to all. And please be polite to Lieb, while he is, in my opinion, mistaken, his intentions were the very best.

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I completely agree here. Played since early vanilla (back when makes had to spec to get arcane explosion to be instant cast). I do not rememebr at all low level dungeons being super difficult and in need of CC. If a derp pulled more packs and we started to see trouble then cc was thrown out. But in low level dungeons up to say DM I don't remember ever NEEDING to cc because the mobs hit so hard.

Rawhide said:

Woa...calm down my friend.
I don't think i'm was being impolite at all. I was just trying to put 2 and 2 together and perhaps find an explination to why Liebs experience was so unforfilling during his test run.
I don't know why you are taking such offence or feeling obligated to /reply to every thread on this issue.
I would love to do some Dungeon testing with other testers and find out if there is indeed an issue, but finding a group has proven impossible for me

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Uhmm, no offense taken at all Rawhide. I do not think my post had any sort of CAPS or exclamation marks or other signs implying that I was upset. However, I am rolling my eyes a bit over chaps panicking that Kronos has issues with NPC damage at low levels. In my opinion, the damage is where it ought to be and I said so both in-game and here before. And it bothers me that an improperly conducted test run generated multiple threads which propagated the same mistaken conclusions – threads which seem to take a life of their own very fast. I think you agree with me on that point.

If you advertise your wish to run a dungeon in advance on these forums, chaps will come – it’s how this BFD run happened in the first place. I am willing to test with you myself in whatever role you need me, at whatever level; just let me know in advance.

P.S. And, because I am testing Teldrassil right now – yes, I found a few bugs in Teldrassil even now, but minor, aside from the building/cave pathing global issue – here’s a hilarious tidbit. How low-level NPC damage feels outdoors:

[video=youtube;AQP5udbZdrA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQP5udbZdrA[/video]

That harpy’s Chain Lighting and self-heal, combined with even only 1-2 Dodges, meant that I was forced to run twice at 5% health and my character would not have been able to take it down without a lucky streak of hits if I would not have sheltered from her casts. Note that this Caster NPC, only 1 Level above my character, whose casts I LoS every single time, still brings my Warrior below 50% before dying…
I think Kronos is fine in this regard.

+1

Like your videos! keep it up.

OT: This BFD run that everyone is discussing seems a bit hard to evaluate under the cirumstances of good gear and downleveling...