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    TwinStar team

Item drops are realy not blizz-like

Ancient

New Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
1) at level 10-20 i get mobs level 14 drops me greens level 20.
2) i get WAY to many green items, its not rare to get mob after mob a green item or sometimes double on a single loot.

does any other friend here noticed that?
 
Just wait till you get to the recipe part. Those things drops in abundance in all areas of the game. Everything that is green drops in abundance tbh, even things that are 0.02% drop rate according to vanilla database drop for me like twice in ONE session today. I have no specific example but recipes overall seem to be way to common, and many people in chat have said the same thing. My guildmates got 4 of these backpacks to drop in just 2 days: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=4500 and they are suppose to be 0.02% chance. Different people reported they got it but still, pretty messed up.

When it comes to quest item drop rate on the other hand I think that some drops are way to low rate compared to what database is telling me.
Example:
Quest: Salty Flat Venom https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?quest=1104
Drop rate: 10% https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=5794#dropped-by
In reality this is not the case. More like 1-3%

Quest: Elixir of Pain https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?quest=501
Drop rate: 15% https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=3496
In reality this is not the case. More like somewhere between 1 to 10% drop rate.

Im sure there are many more but these two quests really stand out for me. Most of the time you'd think that its just bad luck for these items not to drop, but that is not the case. Like 10 times i've heard people complain in Thousand needles as well as Hillsbrad that these drop rates are messed up, so its not just me.
Im sure alliance people have their fair share of messed up drop rates too. Anyway, alot of times it might come down to bad luck on drops for you, but if everyone starts to notice the same thing, then something is most likely wrong. One guy told me he was at the Salty Flat Venom quest for hours, grinding those scorpions. I killed them for about half an hour and got 1 measly drop, so I abandoned the quest in dispair.

Anyway. This being said though, I think Kronos have pretty good rates overall. The recipes and some other green stuff might need to be looked at and finetuned, but other than that its pretty solid.
 
I agree that there is something off with the drop rate. Despite what it states on Twinhead, those rates don't seem reflected in-game. I too have encountered quite an influx of greens compared to vanilla. During dungeons I seem to encounter at least one world drop blue with each run. Which should not be the case at all.

That being said, having a look on the stated rates on Twinhead, it all seems fine and dandy. However, there is something off about those rates being reflected in-game.
 
I haven't found any blues, the number of greens that I've received from 1-35 I can count on both hands, I am still using 8 slot bags I purchased from the auction house. Some people are just lucky. I have to agree with the Salty Venom and Elixir of Pain drops though. Those two specifically made me grind much longer than the Twinhead database suggested.
 
I don't think you guys understand the term RNG. You are aware even if it says that chance to get it is 1% that you can get it every time? Same as if the chance to get it is 99%... You can get no items. Some are extremely lucky others can count greens with their fingers. I received 6 blues and dozen of greens but my friends received no blues and barely any green. I'm just lucky. You are lucky. Drop rates are fine it's just how RNG works. Someone has luck the other doesn't. :/ (you need to play diablo 3 RoS to understand it fully)
 
When it comes to quest items having a strange drop rate that seems to be different from retail, all I can suggest is find 2-3 pre WoTLK sources (year 2007 or earlier would be good) to help confirm what the drop rate should be, and then bug report it.

During the beta when I was testing quests in Desolace I noticed that the flayed demon skin quest starter for the horde only dropped when I cleared out EVERY cultist from both the lower and upper levels, in the keeps, and in the towers. So I checked to see if a bug report was active and I added my commentary from testing.

https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=4013

Boom, it was fixed. The devs are pretty quick to confirm stuff if they're given reference links to check out. Fixing it will take longer, but that's the just how it is as they have a large inventory of things needing to be fixed.

What they won't fix is a quest with a low drop rate when all a poster is saying is "it seems really low" because what is it being compared to? Other private server drop rates? That's no good at all.

I'm not accusing anyone in the thread of doing that. I'm just stating a lot of obvious things.
 
I have no specific example but recipes overall seem to be way to common, and many people in chat have said the same thing.
They are way too common. My brother and I typically get duplicates or even triplicates (e.g., 3 Pattern: Spider Belts the other day) during the same play session.

As for the drop rates of items being too high in general, I'm guessing the problem is that instances when the mob should drop nothing aren't being taken into account. As an example, Swirling Vortex in Shimmering Flats is listed as having an 80% drop rate for Elemental Air. In my time questing there and killing every vortex I came across, I found the listed percentage to be pretty accurate. However, the top comment on wowhead states:
regecks1,175712on 2007/07/06

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Don't be fooled by the Desolace stats, they are grossly inaccurate. Wowhead only calcualates for when the mobs do drop loot, these elementals don't drop loot 99.999% of the time.
If the chance that a mob drops nothing at all is not being accounted for on Kronos, then this is badly skewing the drop rate of certain items.
 
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Recipies arent worth anything indeed.
All of them. Formulas, plans, patterns...

The quest items, just stop Crying or drop the quest. I hear people in barrens Crying all the time"the feathers dont drop". Its vanilla life. Becouse its good for your xp and the followup quest are most of the time more important.
 
I leveled 40 levels without a single blue item drop. Then yesteday i got 5 in a 3 hour play session.

I must admit it felt great with such a Jackpot, totally made me forgot my bad luck for the last 2 weeks
I've got no idea how accurate the drop rates are, but from what i can read people have various experiences with them.
The concept RNG is wierd (from a human perspective). Looking at it objectively requires data, which none of us have. Only anecdotal and subjective experiences.
From looking at the AH, it doesn't seem to be flooded with rares and epics. So i guess that's a good sign.
 
Personally I haven't noticed a big amount of drops - not many recipies and not many items. I mean sure I've gotten a couple greens every level, but that seems perfectly normal to me. I do however agree that SOME quests seem abnormally low - I grinded heavily on the shimmering flats quests, and when all the other quests were completed after around 90 minutes, I still only had ONE scorpion poison.
 
The world epic drop rate is the one that seems way off to me. I've spoken to several people who've found 5-10 world epics, I've personally found 1, but since I'm a holy priest I don't do much grinding.

I'm not sure why they drop this often, but if it's not fixed the epic item economy is going to be ruined.

I'm aware of how RNG works, but world epic drop rate is suposed to be so absurdly low that it should take years to see that many. Maybe 1 person being that lucky is possible statistically, not several. And if you've noticed world chat you would agree that the amount of epics for sale is way off. I mean I played the game for 3 years before I saw my first world epic.
 
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The world epic drop rate is the one that seems way off to me. I've spoken to several people who've found 5-10 world epics, I've personally found 1, but since I'm a holy priest I don't do much grinding.

I'm not sure why they drop this often, but if it's not fixed the epic item economy is going to be ruined.

I'm aware of how RNG works, but world epic drop rate is suposed to be so absurdly low that it should take years to see that many. Maybe 1 person being that lucky is possible statistically, not several. And if you've noticed world chat you would agree that the amount of epics for sale is way off. I mean I played the game for 3 years before I saw my first world epic.
I remember getting 3 epics while just questing on my first wow char 1-60.
It's really hard to asses if the drop rates are accurate, especislly with people Selling the Low lvl epics these days, insted of using them as we did in retail.

Ps. Gauging the amount of epics from world chat is not very good.
People are going to spam their Epics for a long time, some people even buy up Epics and re-sell them with a mark up.
I really doubt "alot" of people are getting 5-10 epics a week, I'll ask around in my guild how many world epic people have gotten yet. But i'll be extremely surpriced if the average is 5-10.
There might be some bug, which causes specific epics to drop to often or some NPC that has a too high drop chance, but the generalize and call out the entire world loot table as wrong might be overkill.
 
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Got 1 blue drop so far. Level 36. Greens happens from time to time, but very rarely.
I know that inside my guild we had like 10 epics already whilst other guilds had none. Seems fine for me actually.
 
Got 1 blue until now, level 36, plus another on 25... Greens maybe around 15, but most are shit. Same for recipes / plans. I don't feel like there's an "abundance", most of the times when I empty my bags there's no rare there...
 
Problem is in situation when lvl 60 grind ( for fun maybe ) lvl 50+ mobs. Then after an hour you can get 2 , 3 epics and a 5 blues and some greens too. And that's the problem here. The drop is very alike to wotlk server when you grind clasic content. Don't ask me why maybe database with drops is the same. Maybe it is ... ;) Some people here after 2 weeks get an epic mount. Ask how? Maybe there is a some bug there. Maybe it is :)
 
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They are way too common. My brother and I typically get duplicates or even triplicates (e.g., 3 Pattern: Spider Belts the other day) during the same play session.

As for the drop rates of items being too high in general, I'm guessing the problem is that instances when the mob should drop nothing aren't being taken into account. As an example, Swirling Vortex in Shimmering Flats is listed as having an 80% drop rate for Elemental Air. In my time questing there and killing every vortex I came across, I found the listed percentage to be pretty accurate. However, the top comment on wowhead states:
If the chance that a mob drops nothing at all is not being accounted for on Kronos, then this is badly skewing the drop rate of certain items.

I think you are onto something there.

Seems like the chance of nothing dropping is not taken into account...maybe?
 
im 60 and i didn't see a single blue drop from 1-60. patterns seem way to common tho i agree.
 
I don't think you guys understand the term RNG. You are aware even if it says that chance to get it is 1% that you can get it every time?

There always seems to be this one person claiming that others simply dont understand how things work. I think I understand full well how RNGesus works his ways. Its just that when every other person experience the same thing, it typically shows there is something off. If one, two or even five people have bad luck on drops, that ones thing (thats RNG), but when every single person complain about the Salty venom drops for example, then the drop rates are most likely off. They arent at 0% ofc, but they sure as hell arent at 15% either.


The quest items, just stop Crying or drop the quest. I hear people in barrens Crying all the time"the feathers dont drop". Its vanilla life. Becouse its good for your xp and the followup quest are most of the time more important.

Except ofc when its not vanilla-like, and people have every right to cry about it. Unluck with RNG is one thing, wrong drop rates are another.



I leveled 40 levels without a single blue item drop. Then yesteday i got 5 in a 3 hour play session.

I dont think this discussing is about blue drops tho. I havent felt that the drop rates on blues are off. For me its mainly the recipes in general (big time!) and some specific quest item drops that are off.


Ps. Gauging the amount of epics from world chat is not very good.

Totally agree

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This thread seem to have become a topic about blue drops, why? Have anybody said that blue drop rates are off? Just because some things are off does not mean they are all wrong. Kronos might have missed some things, but overall they have done very well on the rates.
 
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Law of Large Numbers, guys. Every person must have roughly equal amount of greens after killing roughly the same big amount of mobs. I personally think that something is wrong indeed. I'm just 21 and had, I'd say - 20 greens (gonna check the mail to say more accurately). I won't call it "very rarely", and it's way more than Mosotti say he had. Maybe there's a Barrens mobs problem? Maybe it's not a problem after all, maybe Barrens is intended to be Klondike... Can't imagine how Chero can make a decision in this situation. But if someone will investigate somehow - it would be good.
 
Law of Large Numbers, guys. Every person must have roughly equal amount of greens after killing roughly the same big amount of mobs. I personally think that something is wrong indeed. I'm just 21 and had, I'd say - 20 greens (gonna check the mail to say more accurately). I won't call it "very rarely", and it's way more than Mosotti say he had. Maybe there's a Barrens mobs problem? Maybe it's not a problem after all, maybe Barrens is intended to be Klondike... Can't imagine how Chero can make a decision in this situation. But if someone will investigate somehow - it would be good.
Law of large numbers...?? You do know that law of large numbers doesn't play in RNG? As long as you don't have 0% chance to get or 100% chance to get you are in uncertainty of ever getting or not getting an item. It isn't the type of RNG where it's "Chance of getting an item is 1/10"... It's "chance of possibility of getting an item" which means that if you have even 99% chance to get an item you still have that chance of not getting an item. Heck you can get such a bad streak that you kill 100 mobs and still you don't get an item which has 99% chance to drop (it's just an unreal example to say how RNG plays role here).
 
Nimrod is already looking into it.
Sure its possible that this is only zone related and not a general problem.
 
Law of large numbers...?? You do know that law of large numbers doesn't play in RNG? As long as you don't have 0% chance to get or 100% chance to get you are in uncertainty of ever getting or not getting an item. It isn't the type of RNG where it's "Chance of getting an item is 1/10"... It's "chance of possibility of getting an item" which means that if you have even 99% chance to get an item you still have that chance of not getting an item. Heck you can get such a bad streak that you kill 100 mobs and still you don't get an item which has 99% chance to drop (it's just an unreal example to say how RNG plays role here).
I haven't really understood what you're trying to say. I'm trying to say that if one is getting 100 greens out of 10000 kills, it's almost impossible that another will get only 10 greens out of 10000 kills.

I mean, RNG gives us more or less independent variables... well, chance to get an item is different ofc. But I'm sure there's enough variables with the same distribution if there's enough kills. Then we only have to assume that players are killing "randomly" and getting, say, ~2000 kills of mobs which can drop green with 1% probability, ~1000 kills of mobs with 1.5% etc... Which is rather strong assumption indeed :)

Well, hope that Nimrod will make the things clear.
 
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