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Paladin Tanking

Makoto

New Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
I know that Pallys dont tank as well as Warriors but i still want to do it for dungeons and lvling. Do anyone have any tips help for builds?
I have one other question straight up is it SoR i go for tanking because of the holy dmg and the correlation with Righteous Fury. [FONT=arial, sans-serif]



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Yes, you can tank dungeos from level 1-50 with not problemas at all. I actually did tank many times using Retribution talents. Low level dungeons are very easy to tank for paladins, once you get consecration (holy tree) your life is much easier. I think even a full Holy speced paladin can tank low level dungeons :wink:
For pulls with many mobs, put Ret Aura (if you don't have another pally that can put it), pull and cast consecration, hit with SoR and spread threat among the npcs. For tanking bosses, choose the best aura for the fight (devotion, or resistances), put a good judgement (JotC if you think you will need more threat, JoW for mana gains, JoL for healing), hit with SoR and sometimes* cast Consecrations for extra threat, but be careful and save your mana.


But from level 50+ dungeons, it becomes different. For tanking those dungeons, you must use protection spec talents. Holy Shield and Blessing of Sanctuary play a great role here. Improved Righteous Fury is a must have for more threat, and Reckoning for extra damage and threat. You still need to get Consecration from holy tree though, which is a must have too.
 
But from level 50+ dungeons, it becomes different.
That is actually not true at all. I'm tanking Stratholme Undead, Emperor in BRD or Dire Maul North with 21/0/30 just fine. Yes, zero protection talents.

- Holy Shield is a talent for threat generation, bosses and big groups only, it's a waste of mana on single targets. It costs more than your seals+judges and it only gives a -chance- that something will actually happen.

- Blessing of Sanctuary is only for aoe tanking. Most of the time you're much better off with Wisdom and Kings, simply because reducing 350 damage to 326 damage from one elite doesn't really help much.

The issue at high levels becomes aggro. When your party, especially warlocks start gaining lots of spelldamage, you will have trouble holding to your mobs. The simplest way is just to let your group "chill" at the start, however most people start pew pew even before you do. Salvation is not almighty either. The solution is to grab some spelldamage, the easiest slot to use is your weapon and trinkets.

Start with a judge-reseal is the best way to gain the initial aggro. Marking targets properly will help aswell. If you want to save mana but keep your AoE aggro up, I recommend grenades or farming Crystal Charge. Keep your RF up at all times. If your onehander is slow, you can try using Seal of Command too, but it's not reliable.
 
That is actually not true at all. I'm tanking Stratholme Undead, Emperor in BRD or Dire Maul North with 21/0/30 just fine. Yes, zero protection talents.

- Holy Shield is a talent for threat generation, bosses and big groups only, it's a waste of mana on single targets. It costs more than your seals+judges and it only gives a -chance- that something will actually happen.

- Blessing of Sanctuary is only for aoe tanking. Most of the time you're much better off with Wisdom and Kings, simply because reducing 350 damage to 326 damage from one elite doesn't really help much.

The issue at high levels becomes aggro. When your party, especially warlocks start gaining lots of spelldamage, you will have trouble holding to your mobs. The simplest way is just to let your group "chill" at the start, however most people start pew pew even before you do. Salvation is not almighty either. The solution is to grab some spelldamage, the easiest slot to use is your weapon and trinkets.

Start with a judge-reseal is the best way to gain the initial aggro. Marking targets properly will help aswell. If you want to save mana but keep your AoE aggro up, I recommend grenades or farming Crystal Charge. Keep your RF up at all times. If your onehander is slow, you can try using Seal of Command too, but it's not reliable.

Well i'm not so erudite for tanking on high levels or end-game, but I was suggesting using BoS+HS to make much extra aggro on large pulls, countering the great threat that most casters and AoE damage dealers make at those levels. The chance of blocking is very high with HS up (you will block at least 1 of 3 incoming attacks), so when you block you will reflect double holy damage from BoS+HS *plus* consecration and retribution aura, so it will be less likely you will lose aggro since all of that damage is holy, and have the increased threat by 90% with the Improved Righteous Fury talent. OFC as you stated, the problem with this is the mana efficiency. For that I suggest use only 1 Consecration, 1 Holy Shield, and then just hit with seal up and judge the mobs with more remaining HP for more threat. In any case, you will drink a lot, that's for sure. Oh, and the spelldamage suggestion is good too, it boosts the Consecration damage nicely.
 
Thx for all answeres guys. I have a question: Do the damage from retribution aura get affected by Righteous Fury?
 
Well i'm not so erudite for tanking on high levels or end-game, but I was suggesting using BoS+HS to make much extra aggro on large pulls, countering the great threat that most casters and AoE damage dealers make at those levels.

I agree, but sometimes the Holy Shield just won't go off at all.
You have to use tricks. For example, monsters in instances don't do much damage, so you can sit down before the first hit, which will make it an autocrit and proc Redoubt, increasing your (default) block chance by another 30%. Now 65% chance to block is much better stuff to work with.

Tarinas: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=11215875_2_805503101501t52040512203150

But the proper tanking build you should be using is http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=11215875_2_8050501j5305133d145105c4k
 
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I agree, but sometimes the Holy Shield just won't go off at all.
You have to use tricks. For example, monsters in instances don't do much damage, so you can sit down before the first hit, which will make it an autocrit and proc Redoubt, increasing your (default) block chance by another 30%. Now 65% chance to block is much better stuff to work with.

Yeah, that's actually a nice trick. In that case at least 2 of 3 attacks will be blocked for some seconds. It's a good complement for the strategy I was saying, thanks.


Thx for all answeres guys. I have a question: Do the damage from retribution aura get affected by Righteous Fury?

Yes it does, because it's Holy Damage.
 
If you don't care about your levelling speed, I'd say go to Consecration, it's the only way you can tank AoE fast.
 
I agree with Psojed, at low levels threat is not a problem as long as you are buffed with Righteous Fury.
 
I agree, but sometimes the Holy Shield just won't go off at all.
You have to use tricks. For example, monsters in instances don't do much damage, so you can sit down before the first hit, which will make it an autocrit and proc Redoubt, increasing your (default) block chance by another 30%. Now 65% chance to block is much better stuff to work with.

Tarinas: http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=11215875_2_805503101501t52040512203150

ty!

i noticed that you put talents into "two-handed weapon specialization"

for tanking i would prefer http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=11215875_2_805503101501t52040512203150
- improved retri aura is more useful for tanking or im wrong?


i dont know how your damage looks @60lvl
but @30 lvl i have white crits ~350, with increase of 6%damage it will be 350+21=371, or my counting is incorrect?
 
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ty!

i noticed that you put talents into "two-handed weapon specialization"

for tanking i would prefer http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=11215875_2_805503101501t52040512203150
- improved retri aura is more useful for tanking or im wrong?


i dont know how your damage looks @60lvl
but @30 lvl i have white crits ~350, with increase of 6%damage it will be 350+21=371, or my counting is incorrect?

Actually, the improved retri aura talent is garbage. Is much better to have 2h-weap spec for leveling/PvP purposes, because it not only affects the autoattack damage, but also the damage you deal with seal of command.
 
ty!

i noticed that you put talents into "two-handed weapon specialization"

for tanking i would prefer http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=11215875_2_805503101501t52040512203150
- improved retri aura is more useful for tanking or im wrong?


i dont know how your damage looks @60lvl
but @30 lvl i have white crits ~350, with increase of 6%damage it will be 350+21=371, or my counting is incorrect?

Well first of all my build is not oriented for tanking at all. It's meant to do damage. I just posted it here because you wanted to know my talents.
Secondly, at level 30 your imp. ret aura gives +4 holy damage, whereas your 2h wep spec gives +21.
Finally, caster bosses like Baroness Anastari don't require shields and spellcasts do not trigger ret aura either.
 
Well first of all my build is not oriented for tanking at all. It's meant to do damage. I just posted it here because you wanted to know my talents.
Secondly, at level 30 your imp. ret aura gives +4 holy damage, whereas your 2h wep spec gives +21.
Finally, caster bosses like Baroness Anastari don't require shields and spellcasts do not trigger ret aura either.

oh ty!

guys i deeply bow before your explanation! ok ill take 2handers!
 
Start with a judge-reseal is the best way to gain the initial aggro.

You mean JoR, right? Does this technique depend on the Improved JoR talent, or is the default damage enough to hold aggro?

On a similar note: How important is JotC to SoR? Obviously when fighting/tanking a single mob you'll put JotC on it because why not, but I'm never sure if it's a good idea to fight/tank multiple mobs just with SoR and saving the Judgement CD for a situational JoR. Is SoR good without the JotC debuff?

EDIT:

I'm still a new player (this is the first time I've properly played any version of WoW) and I'm having a hard time deciding if I should go tank or healer spec with my Paladin. I level him together with my friend (a fire mage), and we only ever level those two characters together, so DPS capability during leveling isn't a concern at all. So far my only dungeon experience is a single run of Deadmines, during which I healed. I enjoyed the "simplicity" of it. Simplicity in the sense that I didn't have to pay too much attention to anything besides my team's health bars and keeping up buffs. For leveling I tank mobs while my mage friend does mage things to the mob's face, usually resulting in its untimely death. So far I enjoy that aswell.

What would you recommend? I don't plan to raid once I hit level cap, and if I ever change my mind I could still respec to Holy if Prot isn't viable enough for raiding (is it?).

Also, how useful is Divine Strength? More Strength means more damage, right?
 
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Yes I mean JoR or JoComm in case you have it. It does not depend on the talent, but of course the talent increases the damage dealt and threat generated.
I usually put JotC on bosses only. Judginng JotC doesn't give any threat, but your companions will be firing stuff at the mob instantly, most likely resulting in the loss of aggro. You judge JoR or JoComm to prevent that.
If you can keep your aggro on mobs with just SoR up, sure do it, because you save your mana for the next fight, eliminating the need to drink and your judgement can be used to regain aggro instantly in case someone takes aggro from you. This will work now, however it won't work at higher levels.

I will recommend the prot tree and up to Reckoning. I will leave it up to you if you want the shield bonuses, I usually use a 2H. You can keep up pretty well with healing even without any holy talents, and Precision that gives you hit chance will keep you sane during levelling.
Dïvine Str is an endgame talent. You have what, 30 Str now? Well that means this talent gives you a whopping 3 Str bonus. Sure it's a boost, just a very small boost.
 
Yes I mean JoR or JoComm in case you have it. It does not depend on the talent, but of course the talent increases the damage dealt and threat generated.
I usually put JotC on bosses only. Judginng JotC doesn't give any threat, but your companions will be firing stuff at the mob instantly, most likely resulting in the loss of aggro. You judge JoR or JoComm to prevent that.
If you can keep your aggro on mobs with just SoR up, sure do it, because you save your mana for the next fight, eliminating the need to drink and your judgement can be used to regain aggro instantly in case someone takes aggro from you. This will work now, however it won't work at higher levels.

I'm so glad to hear this, I enjoy just having a seal on myself and hitting things. Having to keep up JotC on everything is just so cubersome. Very nice advice!

I will recommend the prot tree and up to Reckoning. I will leave it up to you if you want the shield bonuses, I usually use a 2H.

I've been playing with the idea of tanking using a 2H aswell... more damage means more threat, plus slower swing speed means more holy damage from SoR means even more threat. Is it actually a good idea for a tank though? Or is it more of a hybrid thing for someone who wants to be able to do damage and tank with the same talents?

Also, I think it was you who mentioned the "sitting to force a crit" technique. Does this work only on the first attack of a mob, or can you use it to force a crit mid-fight in order to proc Reckoning/Redoubt?

One more thing: I'll definitely get Consecration (AoE threat for the win). I don't say no to 10% Intellect, so 5 points in Divine Intellect seems to be the obvious choice, but where should I put the other 5 points? If Divine Strength is out that leaves Improved SoR and Spiritual Focus. Eventhough Spiritual Focus is healing-related, it seems more of a tank talent to me, cus you usually don't get hit as a healer (at least in group content). Improved SoR gives more threat... yay threat. BTW, does healing yourself while tanking actually add threat like how healing someone else does?
 
2H tanking? Healing yourself while tanking? Sit down for reckbomb and redoubt? What you are talking about is not tanking. You basically want to have fun with a ridiculous play style while your healer doing x5 effort to keep you alive. :biggrin:
 
2H tanking? Healing yourself while tanking? Sit down for reckbomb and redoubt? What you are talking about is not tanking. You basically want to have fun with a ridiculous play style while your healer doing x5 effort to keep you alive. :biggrin:

Of course, most of these ideas are fun concepts I'm exploring, mostly because I have no idea what the most viable tanking techniques are as a tank paladin (I'm an utter noob, hence the asking-for-advice thing). If one of these turns out to be very slightly suboptimal but more fun, I don't see a problem with playing it either.

Healing while tanking was meant more during leveling, less for actual group content. Still, wouldn't healing yourself while tanking take healing off the healer's shoulders? Cus... yknow... you're being healed in the process.

As for sitting: I agree that Reckbombs probably aren't extremely valuable as a PvE tank. However Redoubt seems like a really good buff - once again, I'm an utter noob so I may be overestimating the relevance of block chance - having a way to reliable keep it up at all times seems like a good strategy. Also: More blocks means less damage taken, thus less for the healer to heal, right?
 
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=11215875_2_85c501j5305033500105105004k
This is the one and only tankadin spec in vanilla. I tanked every 5 man and UBRS with it on our previous server (ED). I even solo tanked UBRS but had some upgrades from mc/bwl when I did it. You can also tank with holy spec, the only 5 man I had problem tanking was the DM north as holy.

You can sit down to activate redoubt time to time against light hitting mobs if you have the gear. But you should never have reckoning as a tank.

For 2h tanking. SoR doesn't build more threat with 2h. It adds an amount of DPS. So hits harder with slower weapons, but it adds the same amount of dps all the time. With a slow weapon, one miss means you lose the agro and can't take it back.

For lvling > you should get consec at 20 and start pulling big groups (as big as you can kill). Then you should aim for reckoning. Remember, any spec works for tanking till brd. So you don't need the perfect spec/gear to be able to tank low lvl dungeons. I tanked everything up to brd with my shield spec shaman with no challenge here.

- - - Updated - - -

Still, wouldn't healing yourself while tanking take healing off the healer's shoulders? Cus... yknow... you're being healed in the process.
For killing normal mobs, np. For tanking in a dungeon remember you cannot dodge/parry/block while casting. As a tank paladin your heal doen't worth the dmg you take.
 
But you should never have reckoning as a tank.
[...]
Then you should aim for reckoning.

I should never have Reckoning as a tank, yet you're telling me to aim for Reckoning. I take it Reckoning is only meant for leveling, so I'm supposed to simply ignore it when acting as a tank?

Also, I mentioned before that I only play this character together with my mage friend (we play other classes when we're alone), so I don't need to deal damage at all. All I need to do is keep the aggro so he can do his mage stuff without getting hit in the face for it by mobs. I guess I don't need Reckoning at all in this case.

For 2h tanking. SoR doesn't build more threat with 2h. It adds an amount of DPS. So hits harder with slower weapons, but it adds the same amount of dps all the time. With a slow weapon, one miss means you lose the agro and can't take it back.

Does it really just give a regular DPS increase? This would mean a faster weapon is preferrable as misses will hurt you less, correct? I wouldn't mind this at all, I enjoy faster weapons.

For tanking in a dungeon remember you cannot dodge/parry/block while casting.

I didn't even know that. It makes perfect sense if you think about it, though.

any spec works for tanking till brd.

I've been hearing this a lot, and I've been wondering: What is more viable, tanking with a holy spec, or healing with a prot spec? As mentioned before I enjoy both, and I like being flexible in terms of role. Like being able to heal if I end up in a group that already has a tank, or tanking if I end up in a group that still needs a tank. Plus, I have to be able to out-aggro a fire mage during leveling while also staying alive.

Now, a few questions about your spec (I know I know, I'm making my posts way too long):

1. Reasoning behind Benediction, particularily in comparison to BoM? Tight mana because Consecration is expense?

2. Psojed mentioned Divine Strength is more of an end-game talent, should I go for it on low-level anyways if I'm aiming for your spec, or is Intellect singificantly better early game?
 
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I should never have Reckoning as a tank, yet you're telling me to aim for Reckoning. I take it Reckoning is only meant for leveling, so I'm supposed to simply ignore it when acting as a tank?
Correct. The spec I gave is for the end game tanking. As a tank you need gear with defense skill and the skill reduces the chance you will get crited. Reckoning activates after crits you get. So it will not happen often in a 5 man when you have the gear (never even after some point). It's for lvling and pvp basically.


Does it really just give a regular DPS increase? This would mean a faster weapon is preferrable as misses will hurt you less, correct? I wouldn't mind this at all, I enjoy faster weapons.
Correct and it only scales with spell dmg bonus. For end game tanking you need caster weapons with spell dmg for higher threat and the good thing is they are all fast. It's common to have two weapons as a tankadin in vanilla aswell. Because you need the spell dmg bonus only for judgement of righteousness and consecration. You can make a macro to swap your caster weapon, use the spell and switch back to your tanking weapon(something with armor or high dex for more avoidance).


What is more viable, tanking with a holy spec, or healing with a prot spec?
Both viable. If your healer is good enough you can tank with holy spec, because you will take more dmg than a prot. You can heal with any spec if your tank is geared enough. Talent respec is cheap here, so you can respec whenever you want. If you don't wanna change your spec and do anything you want, you can try something like this. You have most of the tools you need as a tank and healer. It was also my favorite pvp healer spec. You can support your team with blesses and heals, then one hit an enemy healer or dps when needed. :p


1. Reasoning behind Benediction, particularily in comparison to BoM? Tight mana because Consecration is expense?
You need to use blessing of sanctuary to reduce the dmg you take and increase your threat. No reason to spec BoM since you will not use it for tanking.


2. Psojed mentioned Divine Strength is more of an end-game talent, should I go for it on low-level anyways if I'm aiming for your spec, or is Intellect singificantly better early game?
As I mentioned it's end game tanking spec, I wouldn't recommend it for leveling because Reckbomb works better in most cases. If you go for it then you should aoe farm as much as you can and ignore most of the quests. Since you have a mage friend you can do it together aswell. It would be fast and safe with such a duo but you may have problem finding enough spawn to kill. Divine strenght becomes better than divine intellect before end game. All the gear you get from dungeons and quests will be melee type and you will have more str than int when you hit mid levels. Also int doesn't increase your kill speed, str does. Since you have a mage friend for free water, I wouldn't try to stack int anyway.
 
As a tank you need gear with defense skill and the skill reduces the chance you will get crited.

Redoubt won't proc by itself either then, sitadin ftw?

Because you need the spell dmg bonus only for judgement of righteousness and consecration.

What about SoR? Does that not scale with Spell Dmg aswell?

You need to use blessing of sanctuary to reduce the dmg you take and increase your threat. No reason to spec BoM since you will not use it for tanking.

Totally forgot that Sanctuary is a blessing XD that clears it up.

As I mentioned it's end game tanking spec, I wouldn't recommend it for leveling because Reckbomb works better in most cases. If you go for it then you should aoe farm as much as you can and ignore most of the quests. Since you have a mage friend you can do it together aswell. It would be fast and safe with such a duo but you may have problem finding enough spawn to kill. Divine strenght becomes better than divine intellect before end game. All the gear you get from dungeons and quests will be melee type and you will have more str than int when you hit mid levels. Also int doesn't increase your kill speed, str does. Since you have a mage friend for free water, I wouldn't try to stack int anyway.

I've discussed it with my mage friend. He likes AoE (he's a mage, go figure), so we'll try AoE killing things in combination with quests. If it suits us both I'll go for something similar to your build, possible with a few healing talents to help with the occasional healing or to get talents that are more useful low-level.

Anyways: Stat priority. You've mentioned defense skill, str, I'll assume armor and stamina are somewhere in there aswell, spell damage on my weapon, what else? Also what would you say is the most important stat for a paladin tank?
 
Redoubt won't proc by itself either then, sitadin ftw?
In a duo I don't see any problem sitting time to time to activate it against normal mobs. It's just dangerous against elites. You also need 5/5 redoubt for shield specialization which starts to shine once you get holy shield.

What about SoR? Does that not scale with Spell Dmg aswell?
It does. But your white hits and SoR procs are the smallest part of your total threat. Most of it comes from consecration and the hits you take. Retribution aura when you take hit, holy shield and blessing of sanctuary when you block. You can use caster weapon all the time for higher threat but sadly tankadin needs all the tankines he can get since you can't def cap. So weapon switch works better overall.

If it suits us both I'll go for something similar to your build, possible with a few healing talents to help with the occasional healing or to get talents that are more useful low-level.
Paladin heals are terrible if you don't stack int and spec holy in the leveling process. After 2 heals you have no mana to fight. And those kind of "oh shit" moments happen when you are almost oom. If things go bad you have frost nova and polymorph which allows you to bandage yourselves. :smile:

Anyways: Stat priority. You've mentioned defense skill, str, I'll assume armor and stamina are somewhere in there aswell, spell damage on my weapon, what else? Also what would you say is the most important stat for a paladin tank?
For lvling all you can get is the warrior type mail and plate. Highest armor, hp and str is what you go for. You will not meet defense gear before late 40s and you don't need that stuff for leveling. For end-game you need all the def you can get because you cannot cap your defense. You don't have many options as a tankadin so you never have to choose something over something else at 60.
 
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