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Other 5 Man Difficulty Undertuned in Beta

Calinthodd

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Dec 19, 2014
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#1
I'm making this post in regards to some of the reports I've read from beta testers running various 5 mans. What a handful of people have been mentioning is that on the beta currently 5 mans are too simple and require no tactics or CC. For example this post here:
http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/93042-BFD-Testrun-Review-Impressions-Bugs-Opinions
very explicitly details the mob damage values in Blackfathom Deeps being far too low to create any real sense of challenge or excitement for a 5 man group of appropriate level.

While I can't 100% confirm it, I have a worried feeling that these mob damage values need to be closely looked at and tuned, not just in BFD but in instances worldwide. This is a huge task but if nothing is done and 5 man dungeons are easier than their intended "blizzlike" level of difficulty due to inaccurate damage values then a real sense of accomplishment and challenge will be missing from the classic Vanilla experience we are all eager to play. Please share your thoughts if you have any input on this topic.
 
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Oct 16, 2014
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#2
I haven't done any low level dungeons whilst testing, but I have noticed various elites hitting hard. Some I thought were even a little too high but maybe it was just me.

the people running the dungeons, have they just levelled and done those places or are they using the commands to level and adding gear? If they are, the gear they are wearing might be giving them a massive advantage. It would be interesting to know if they've got some normal gear from quests and few green world drops or if they're all twinked up.
 

Aieris

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Jan 15, 2009
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#3
They sayed, that they had greens for their level.. Yes, it gave them a bit advantage (because you will most likely not have greens for your level during leveling). Perhaps we should retest it with more proper gear (wome whites, different levels, gear from Quests).

Edit: I have just tested that a bit. Mobs at entrance of BFD are dealing cca 60 dmg to 7% reduction (i hope it'S not reduced more by level) while raptors in wetlands are dealing cca 27 dmg to 30% reduction.

If I'm not mistaken, elites should deal cca 2x-2,5x dmg of normal mobs of the same level.

Edit2: I have now tested DMG of Skeletal Flayers.. If I remember well, the have been dealing cca 60 dmg per autoattack to me, now the are dealing 37-40.. So it seems that dmg of all NPCs is by 1/3 lower than it should.
 
Last edited:

brunow1337

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Jan 4, 2015
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Sweden
#4
well i did strath and scholo yesterday with full t2 tank and healer and dps and it stil was kinda hard. tho our tank took like 40 dmg the rest of us took alot of dmg and we manage to wipe maybe 1-2 times :s
 

Spufy

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Nov 5, 2014
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#5
we do Scholo with full t2 tank/priest/hunter /rogue and was fuking easy....But anyway...I think on release no1 with t1/t2 will go to farm Scholo so....need to test with some blue gear for 55+
 

Breda

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Aug 20, 2014
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#6
Some other difficulty level are linking packs and patroling.

Difficult on patrols will be that they might attack you from behind if you dont notice them, especcialy when they are ~3 and you are busy fighting a pack or so and your healer can die since healers often stay behind.

Difficult on linking packs are important too and you might get to many debuffs for example in maraudon at these worms near Noxxion. Or a face aggro from a healer who pulls 8 worms because of the linking.
 

Lharts

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Nov 29, 2012
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#7
Do Scholo with fresh 60s.
I did that with a really experienced group last time and I still dread that place. Gandling most of all.
 

Dalloway

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Jan 19, 2015
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#8
Hmm, I was the one who tanked said BFD run.
Now, I do not want to contradict Lieb and Visuv, they seem knowledgeable and I have the memory of a goldfish. Plus, I only leveled once during Classic, so I ran BFD twice in those days.

However, I will say that I do not recall these instances being a pain due to sheer difficulty and damage values. The way you chaps describe them (Crowd Control requirements etc.), they sound like early TBC Heroic dungeons (and about those I know a lot, I ran entire raiding guilds through them). The issue with early dungeons in Classic was the sheer player incompetence, disinterest in what was going on and lack of gear. In our test run, all NPCs were correctly debuffed with Thunderclap and Demo Shout 100% of the time, Disarmed, Stunned, Feared on cooldown, and the healer was always kept out of trouble. I do not think it is a wonder we did not see a lot of damage output from the NPCs, even if we engaged 5-6 at a time. Moreover, while we were all Level 24-25 and wearing Green gear, we were wearing proper Green gear. I was using only Battleforge of the Bear items.

Tell you what, I'll tank this again for whoever wishes to retest, and this time we cap ourselves at Level 22 (which is, in my opinion, a better Level average for the dungeon if we want to recreate the 2005 experience) and use gear only available to Level 15 characters (because, in truth, back then, that would have been the gear used by players running this dungeon, they would all have been in Darkshore & Westfall quest items, with a couple of weapons from Deadmines at best). Oh and, use only spell ranks allowed for said Level. It'll still feel easy because of our experience, but you may very well see some genuine damage spikes this time.
 

Arthryn

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Joined
Sep 26, 2014
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#9
Did you use fresh characters that you leveled/modified to the level range of the dungeon, or did you use characters that you have already been modified to 60 once and then downleveled?

Reason is that when you modify your character to level 60, it gets full weapon skills and defense skill. When downleveling, those skills are not downleveled. They stay at 300.
It could be the issue if a lowlevel dungeon feels too easy.
 

szsoulzek

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Joined
Mar 19, 2015
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USEast
#10
They sayed, that they had greens for their level.. Yes, it gave them a bit advantage (because you will most likely not have greens for your level during leveling). Perhaps we should retest it with more proper gear (wome whites, different levels, gear from Quests).

Edit: I have just tested that a bit. Mobs at entrance of BFD are dealing cca 60 dmg to 7% reduction (i hope it'S not reduced more by level) while raptors in wetlands are dealing cca 27 dmg to 30% reduction.

If I'm not mistaken, elites should deal cca 2x-2,5x dmg of normal mobs of the same level.

Edit2: I have now tested DMG of Skeletal Flayers.. If I remember well, the have been dealing cca 60 dmg per autoattack to me, now the are dealing 37-40.. So it seems that dmg of all NPCs is by 1/3 lower than it should.
I'd like to reinforce this. When you .level on this server, your weapon/defense skills are instantly maxed and you have to be careful of what gear you are granting yourself. While legit leveling, your skills will always be 1 level less than the max and most of your gear slots will be at least 5 levels behind.

So, instead of .level to 20 and making 20 greens and trying out WC, do .level 19 and equip level 13-17 greens and see how it goes.
 

Aieris

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Jan 15, 2009
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303
#11
Well, i'm confused a bit.. there were more tests and it showed up, that actualy most NPCs on Kronos have more accurate DMG than on other private servers. It seems that on other pservers, DMG is overtuned. Comparison was made to Joanas guide to 60 video.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
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#13
Well. Damage being overtuned on other servers is one thing, but since they are so badly scripted it turns out it becomes alot easier to do that content anyway. Kronos being well scripted and the bosses and mobs do what they are suppose to do, then even with lower damage they become more challenging. From what I gathered I doubt we will clear MC as fast and with such ease as this other server already have done, even with pre 1.4 itemization. This is not an attempt to bash another server, but rather saying that I think Kronos will be fine with good scripts :)
 
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