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    TwinStar team

5g respec cap isn't a "quality of life" change. It is a game changer.

R

reqster

New Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
As tempting as it is to attract less hardcore playerbase by keeping respec costs low, making it as low as 5g just ruins the sacrifice of choosing a spec. Especially for classes like warriors. Being able to switch so easily between tanking, pve dps and pvp specs devalues the act of choosing one, when any warrior can just switch spec at any time with almost no consequence. If this is a business decision to keep a healthy realm population, make it 25g at most. But making it 5g is comparable to changing experience rates to x3. There's a line between quality of life changes and balance changes and this one crosses it.

Please reconsider.
 
reqster said:
As tempting as it is to attract less hardcore playerbase by keeping respec costs low, making it as low as 5g just ruins the sacrifice of choosing a spec. Especially for classes like warriors. Being able to switch so easily between tanking, pve dps and pvp specs devalues the act of choosing one, when any warrior can just switch spec at any time with almost no consequence. If this is a business decision to keep a healthy realm population, make it 25g at most. But making it 5g is comparable to changing experience rates to x3. There's a line between quality of life changes and balance changes and this one crosses it.

Please reconsider.
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They stated this atleast a dozen times. The 5g respec costa will stay.
 
So grateful for the 5G respect, all my friends and I agree that is a good idea. Just like the party XP thing and random queue bg ^ _^

super hyped. Kronos has the high quality control amongst all realms.
 
5G respec makes players more active. for example people can respec and do some PVP instead of not bothering with it at all. or healing classes can farm.

same goes for joining bgs from anywhere. now instead of AFK-ing in the city, people can be active in game world.

and its definitelly not a game changer, its a minor change. vanilla was not a perfect game and could actually be improved, whether freaks like alexensual admit it or not.
 
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I do agree that the 5g respec cost has sweeping effects that could be considered major.

HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean it still can’t be a quality of life upgrade. There are some parts of vanilla that we want intact because we love punishment, and other parts we maybe don’t mind as much because all it was is just a tedious obstacle to having more fun with vanilla.

As a person who loves to experiment with different spec choices, the Blizz-like respects made me play LESS. Being able to try other specs and also be optimal in PvP when the boys are going down for the night to WSG...it keeps me goin’.
 
Totally with OP on that one. In fact if I wasn't 100% sure, kronos admins are going to ignore this request, I'd post the similar thread some time ago.
 
This could have been a good discussion, but comparing it with exp. rate increase x3 already destroys your whole argument, since you are not able or willing to see the relation of those changes.

As stated above, the world will be more active due to more farming speccs and less pvp-idling, a consequence could be a bigger ecnonomy since more people are farming gold etc. This could have an impact somewhere from 3-7% on the server economics.

A exp. rate increase x3 plays in a different league on server impact, regrading activity, economics, etc.
 
To anyone doubting this feature, just wait until you've tried playing with a 5g respecc cost. You will appreciate it later.
 
While I wouldn't expect them to change it, I agree that the 5g respec is a big gameplay change. It's really almost no different from just having dual spec. A 5g investment is nothing, it may as well be free. That has some pretty significant effects on the way people play. Everyone will be able to always use whatever spec is optimal for what they want to do at any given time, and it means the following:

1) The loot economy is affected as many more hybrid classes will try to gear up for two specs. Holy priests will try to get some shadow gear, etc. This makes it harder for those who actually main the hybrid DPS specs.

2) Fewer people will PvP in sub-optimal specs. Everyone will have a perfect PvP spec that they switch to outside of raids. This means that anyone playing a less powerful spec, like boomkin, is effectively made even weaker relative to the metagame.

3) Classes like rogue and warrior, who have extremely powerful PvE DPS specs that aren't so great in PvP and vice versa, become even better classes. They're always going to be in their strongest loadout. Every warrior you ever fight will be Arms.

4) Many players who raid as a tank or healer will switch to a DPS spec outside of raid hours. This exacerbates the issue of too few tanks and healers in the world. Pug BGs will have fewer healers, etc. This is actually really bad for the casual environment.
 
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Well Im looking forward to using different specs every week for once ;)
 
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Cision said:
This is correct, it has been working for 3 years without issues already :)
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I disagree, because the dev team is way too narrow minded about this features and think it's their trademark, each time someone voice his concern they shut him down so i did'nt do a full post about this for K3 like stated by qqqqqqqqqq for this reason, to me 50g respec had a purpose.

Cons:

-It makes PvP cancer,
while this features is build around the fact it would help pvp. Simple: the only way to get good retardin/feral/boomkin gear is raid pve but only few guild would bring those hybrid. Here the paladin/feral/boomkin can go for 5g in healing spec raiding and switch the same night the retard spec to go into wsg. That would be impossible if respec cost was 50g, they either go pvp in heal spec, stay in hybrid spec or not pvp at all which is tbh better because those players are usually selfish and dont bother with teamplay (thus cancer)

-It makes PVE way easier as it should.
1) Having to choose a balanced spec for pvp and pve and farming makes pve harder and the game more fun and varied. We are not fucking stupid, we all now the optimal pve and pvp spec.
2)switching spec freely depending on the encounter and allow guild to have perfect setup for each fight (tank can switch to fury when they are not needed, mage can respec frost or fire etc) = more dps = you can bypass some boss mechanic just by brute force= pve easier.

-It breaks your economy,
Denying that is pure hypocrisy, despite the fact the gold sink become non-existent, you allow 2 classes to spec for a farming spec for free: mage and hunters can have spec doubling their gold/hour income. K1 inflation was sick, I am well aware i had more than 40k gold on this server wtf, i never had more than 1k in retail back then and my playtime was 4 times bigger.
And you allow the usual non-farmer class (paladin/druid/priest....) to switch for few gold to a farming spec putting more money into the game again and seriously reroll time is like 5days played if you are not a retard and help your alt with gear.

-And here where you dont see the point, it KILLS your server on the long run, never wonder why people join Nost/LH/Ely instead of Kronos despite all the drama? The Kronos starting zone is always empty past the initial xp rush (i dont count the time where K1/K2 had no competition due to nost/lh downtime) . On those server you HAVE TO reroll to have a farming/pvp alt, making starting zone more crowded and then more attractive. I rerolled 9 times on Kronos, it's impossible to do an instance after Deadmines, when you finally find a group your level is too high to make it worth.

I could go for dozen other examples for the cons but the wall of text would kill most of you.


Pros:
-It's cheaper and allow people to play the class how they want to play it at all time.

Yeah true, but i had 2 hunters on retail, and it was common to have twice the same classes to play one for pvp and one for pve.

-It allows perfect pvp spec in BG

cool, cool, cool more perfect reckbomb spec

-It allows warriors to go tank more freely for lower instance

I agree, but you can tank every 5men in fury/arm spec if you have the gear to begin with anyway.
 
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And to be clear, i am not a blizzlike N a z i, but i'd prefer something like 15 to 25g respec cost to make it matter.

I can make 5g in 3 mins in kronos currently, it's stupid just make it free.
 
But why are you not posting this in the suggestions forum? Its a bit silly to just complain about a core feature 1 day before release in a "pre-launch" forum. I cant see how that could ever be constructive...
 
Brochette said:
And to be clear, i am not a blizzlike N a z i, but i'd prefer something like 15 to 25g respec cost to make it matter.

I can make 5g in 3 mins in kronos currently, it's stupid just make it free.
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25g or higher cost would make sense. 5g is next thing to free respec. May be on kronos 4 we will have it :)
 
qqqqqqqqq said:
25g or higher cost would make sense. 5g is next thing to free respec. May be on kronos 4 we will have it :)
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Yeah I agree. When we played on Elysium our Main tank would regularly respec for 25g to his fury for pve or arms for pvp and when the raids resetted he would just switch back for another 25g. You can make that amount of gold easily in 1-2 hours of farming (or less for some classes).
5g for respec is just way too low and every player will be at his optimal spec no matter what he does.
 
I have shit tons of cons, really. Even pvp exclusive players should dislike 5g respec cost.

It lower the power of pve T1/T2 if you can't freely go to the optimal pvp spec, and it fixes the complain about the level 58 gear being too bad compared to T1.

Shit gear + pvp spec Versus Good gear + pve spec , oh it's vanilla all over again !
 
We can compare 5g respec with dual spec. It's pretty much the same or 5g respec is worse cause you need to respec 200+ times (dual spec was 1k on retail, right? correct me if i'm wrong). I don't think many players would need 200 respecs in any period of time. 5g RS isn't QoL, it's rather economy messing feature. Why doing it? Idk.
5gRS might be attractive thing several years ago when there was a competition between nost and kronos. But now blizzlike = attractive even if it's against QoL.
 
Dual spec was 1k in WotLK, which is probably comparable to like 200g in vanilla money. Still, 5g respec is pretty much the same as dual spec. It has a significant effect on things like the playability of less favored specs when everyone else always has access to the best spec of their class. I doubt they'd change the respec cost at this point, but it's certainly more than a QoL thing. It directly impacts economy, PvP and server culture.
 
reqster said:
As tempting as it is to attract less hardcore playerbase by keeping respec costs low, making it as low as 5g just ruins the sacrifice of choosing a spec. Especially for classes like warriors. Being able to switch so easily between tanking, pve dps and pvp specs devalues the act of choosing one, when any warrior can just switch spec at any time with almost no consequence. If this is a business decision to keep a healthy realm population, make it 25g at most. But making it 5g is comparable to changing experience rates to x3. There's a line between quality of life changes and balance changes and this one crosses it.

Please reconsider.
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wait what ? less hardcore ?.... how does having a lower gold cap on respec attract less hardcore ? Take a moment to think about it...
Respec is something most do as little as possible and some classes particularly cloth & leather hardly respec at all... The ones who have to respec are tanks... yes those who pay the highest repair fee also pay the most for respec...

The cap was also later introduced by blizzard when they caught on to this...

but anyways back to the topic... how does a respec cap have anything to do with hardcore players ? The cap is in place both for QoL & balance but also as a kind gesture to the majority and it has no effect whatsoever on hardcore or what it attracts... the first respec you do costs 10 silver... throughout K1 & K2 i respecced a total of 7 times across all my lvl 60s combined... thay wouldnt have made it go past the cap either...

with the cap in place some might try out different builds more commonly if anything and battlegrounds can be more diverse...

and you are comparing the cap to tripling experience ?
theres a line between overreacting over small things and acting retarded... fixing the meeting stones has more of an effect than this cap and the majority of players will never ever benefit from it... please take a look at the bigger picture.... -.-

lets not forget how long vanilla has been around... most know & make their talent choices long before release and the only ones to change back & forth are healing & tanking classes which throws off balance in favor of dps...
 
Brochette said:
I disagree, because the dev team is way too narrow minded about this features and think it's their trademark, each time someone voice his concern they shut him down
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I like that they don't listen to vocal minority of vanilla cultists and make their own decisions instead.
Thinking that vanilla is perfect game and cannot be improved is what I call narrow minded.
 
All those arguments feel to me like warlocks complaining, that other classes can pvp on their best pvp spec as well.
Whats wrong with having though pvp encounters since everyone can pay to respecc into a pvp-build?

K1 inflation was sick, I am well aware i had more than 40k gold on this server wtf, i never had more than 1k in retail back then and my playtime was 4 times bigger.
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This argument is probably the worst one, since the whole understanding of wow fundamentaly changed since vanilla.

The change of queuing for a bg out in the open world is much more impactful, since ppl. can now farm gold as well as farm bgs. This is almost a doubling in efficiency of your gametime spent.

Yeah true, but i had 2 hunters on retail, and it was common to have twice the same classes to play one for pvp and one for pve.
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WTF! You could have spend 1 hour farming DM and could respecc more than 2 times. Regarding to time/reward efficiency this was probably the decision of someone who had too much time on his hand.
I knew a lot of ppl. having a 2nd toon for farming, a second identical toon for pvping was quite rare and acutally not very common!

Dual spec was 1k in WotLK, which is probably comparable to like 200g in vanilla money
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This conversion is already of with TBC since introduction of daily quests etc. gold got devalued quite fast. As a subjective feeling, 1000g in Vanilla is more 25000 Gold in TBC, since it was so easy to farm with a daily effort.

And here where you dont see the point, it KILLS your server on the long run, never wonder why people join Nost/LH/Ely instead of Kronos despite all the drama?
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This is also not true, since everything in live has a multi-variancy reason, saying that low respecc cost leads to low Alt. rates which leads to empty starting zones which leads to a dead server is just wrong.(And yes this could contribute to this outcome) But there are much more impactful reasons why people are loosing intrest in playing on K3 and switching to a new realm.

Following this line of argumentation, one should be able to use leveling addons/guides since it makes vanilla so much more easier, if you really know what you are doing. Same with DM/BRD solo-farming, not a lot of ppl. knew it back than, should it be forbidden? I guess not since your are probably playing a mage/hunter. Your argumentation feels quite egoistic to me not only but also because there are good arguments for a lower respecc but you didn't dig into those.
 
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