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    TwinStar team

5g respec cap isn't a "quality of life" change. It is a game changer.

Every time I wonder to myself whether I should start playing WoW again, I browse this forum for the backwards people and their delusion that killing boars was what made vanilla WoW great. I'll try again in a few years after the current breed of newbies get over their (pseudo-)nostalgia, and we'll see whether there's finally a proper 1.12 realm that focuses on the good parts of the game.

The notion suggested in the OP that the "hardcore" players in this game are the ones that waste away enough to afford 50g respecs is almost laughable.
 
Aquilae, i dont have time to make a quoting war where your sole argument is "omg it's not true"
Sorry dude.
 
5g respec is a game changer, and it's a QoL - it makes lifes easier. No longer you need to have two chars of the same class, one PvE-focused and one PvP-focused. No longer you need to use imperfect ("hybrid") spec just because it's "okay" for both PvE and PvP. This is why everyone likes it. If you look deeper, you see all the cons Brochette mentioned.
It makes PVE way easier as it should
Especially this, it puzzles me that a server as PvE-focused as Kronos is has let this be.

But oh well, we all know they're not changing it.
 
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I feel like its good that there is a cost to switching specs, and its also good that you can have more than 1 spec that you use regularly or semi regularly with your main char (instead of just rolling another of the same class). So the original cost was 50g, and here it is 5g, right? it is only 10% of the original cost, so it's a big difference. It only takes a lvl60 character under an hour of some farming to make 5g, doesn't it? I wouldn't mind if it was higher than 5g. But 50g does sound like a lot. Idk what else to say. I think 5g is not bad because, it still induces a cost, so it means that whoever chooses to regularly switch specs such as once per day or maybe a few times a week, will still need to pay for it about "1hour" worth of gold for each switch, seems pretty fair tbh. But it does change the value of committing to whatever talents you already have by a lot. In my view in the original game this may have been one of the ways that they thought could increase play time without much more good reason for gameplay or economy so i don't care about cost reduced to 5g personally.
For example for me rest rates I think it's important to maintain at blizzlike value because it sets the treshhold where you gain more wealth while leveling depending on how much you play per day. So when I play on a server that has increased rest rate it has a big impact and I don't like it. But spec cost reduced to me it doesn't matter much. I wouldn't really mind if it stayed at 50g as blizzlike, I would just probably eventually pay for it but avoid switching specs regularly, only switch specs rarely like after a month or two.. or if you manage to never or barely switch specs you gain wealth compared to others who do so that's also interesting..

Maybe a better compromise would be to set this at more than 10% of blizzlike, such as 50% or 30%.. i dont know, its different. Could set a vote for it^^? but it may be bit late
 
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I would not have been an active endgame PvPer and PvEer if there had not been a relatively low respec cost. It's absolute bullshit that you need to spend money to change your spec at all in my opinion, as that gold you spend merely represents time spent farming for money.

Do you believe you should only be able to change your playstyle or role after a certain amount of menial, tedious, mind-numbing farming? Why? What's the benefit? Weight of decision? Consequences? There are plenty of parts of the game that have hard consequences and weight to them, there is really no call to limit playstyle diversity behind /played grinding time.

Kronos has my everlasting respect at least on this point for changing one of the most backwards-ass aspects of original Vanilla.
 
Go away. This has been posted a million times, and just because blizzard did it doesn't mean it was good. Having been a top 50 raider for years and playing since the closed F&F alpha in 2004, I like this change and purists like you who think they have new and original things to say don't have to play here.
 
Do you believe you should only be able to change your playstyle or role after a certain amount of menial, tedious, mind-numbing farming? Why? What's the benefit? Weight of decision? Consequences? There are plenty of parts of the game that have hard consequences and weight to them, there is really no call to limit playstyle diversity behind /played grinding time.
I wholeheartedly agree. So, let's finally get rid of that stupid "Blizzlike" experience rate.
 
I don't get why anyones complaining. PvE is braindead easy enough. at least now the healers can farm on their offtime.
 
Well if you think 5g is really nothing in Vanilla, you either

1. Have no clue about Vanilla
2. Are one of those no life people that lives in a basement "MOM just send down the food.." "This place smells like shit"..

I won't be able to play more than 20-30 hours a week probably and I'm absolutely happy that I don't need to farm half of that time to be able to afford one single Respec and I can spend that time to hunt down some Orcs and Cows in WSG instead!
 
Go away. This has been posted a million times, and just because blizzard did it doesn't mean it was good. Having been a top 50 raider for years and playing since the closed F&F alpha in 2004, I like this change and purists like you who think they have new and original things to say don't have to play here.
That's bit mean and not really related to the discussion in any way. If the thing to say in not new it doesn't mean it isn't right. May be toxic players better go away, than those who suggest game improving decisions.
One thing I like very much about these guys who played since wc1 on 486 pcs on 1989, they think their opinions have more weight. Guess what, you're wrong. Time /played by itself don't make you neither better player nor having better insight of what's good for the game experience in general.

Respec high cost shouldn't be considered as some value of farming time, it should rather be considered as changing of playstyle or your image for some while which is some big thing. Instead of respecing for a high price one could buy something to improve his main spec, make a choice, not having all in the same time. 5g cost ruins the value of respecing decision. If you can simply pay 5g every time you get out of city to kill something or do quests or join bg, having optimal build for any kind of activity it's not wow it's more like diablo3. With high rescpec cost you could meet any kind of class/talents combo while playing and it was fun. With 5g respec all mages you meet in the wild are frost, all priests shadow, all warrs fury. You see a holy paladin questing or farming you might say: "gush, look at this guy, he must be some role play outist, poor thing, special day for special boy".

Spec/players' uniqueness was one of the things which made vanilla great. I don't say 5g respec totally destroys the game. not overestimating this, but it is certainly affects the game and not in a good way.
 
That's bit mean and not really related to the discussion in any way. If the thing to say in not new it doesn't mean it isn't right. May be toxic players better go away, than those who suggest game improving decisions.
To make a suggestion that improves things for all means you had to consider things from many angles.... you could not even spend a second naming your character and simply clicked a single button but you also proclaim something without specifying the most important.... "WHY".... why would it be better without the cap, why would it attract more hardcore players, why is 5g a small amount in your book.

The cap has been in place the last 3-4 years now... and nothing but positivity has radiated from it... Blizzard added a lot of essential stuff such as anti-cheat engine & more after vanilla ended would you want private servers without anti-cheat engines or ddos protection ?

What difference does it make if the cap is 5, 50 or 1000 ? keep in mind the first time costs 0.10 and the classes do not all equally need to respec back & forth for pvp & pve... in fact Warriors will be the ones to respec the most 2nd we will have paladin/priest & druids and then we have classes who can play from day 1 to the last day of naxxramas without ever changing spec yet it remains viable...

Keep in mind those who already have to respec often have the highest repair or reagent costs while those that can ignore respec mostly hardly have any extra expenses...

To me your so called suggestion comes off as more of a selfish desire as you will be playing a dps most likely or it is perhaps as well thought out as that account name of yours... please... some off us actually care and have been around since the original wow and have been around on private servers for nearly an eternity and we don't mind...

anyways i am still asking "why".... Kronos clearly never lacked competitive hardcore guilds and people where competing weekly... respect has no effect on actual combat and if ur now saying its inflation related then take a look at those who use secondary accounts as banks skipping the bank bag space costs.....

So far i only see a benefit in it.... not only will most never reach the cap as they do not respec as often but it allows those who would normally respec a lot to relax a bit more and we will see more diversity...

now please tell me how does it affect the game in a poor way ?
 
It was already told by me and other participants of this thread, you might want to read it if you want to see cons and pros. 5g respec isn't making kronos bad. And i'm not trying hard to remove this feature, not gonna to abandon kronos because of this. Kronos is still the best option of present pservers (as much as you i was around pserver scene for some while, playing Nostalrius, Ares, Hellfire tbc, Elysium, K2, enen Valkirye wow :D). I played some variety of classes through all these servers. I can compaire and my choice is k3 w/o any doubt. But still there's room for improvement, all i'm trying to say. And I don't really think those who support the idea of respec can increase are selfish few or newcommers.
 
I am well aware i had more than 40k gold on this server wtf
Do you really think that the average raider on the old realm had that much money, and it was related to the 5g respec cost in any way? I can think of a handful of individuals with such ludicrous amounts of gold: yourself, Dagrus, Fei, Timecop, Reasonabull and a few others. Did you farm DM North for that gold? No, you (collectively) abused the bugged plaguebloom spawns, controlled static black lotus spawns, abused alts leveled with the 7x-xp event for profession cooldowns like arcanite or mooncloth, and controlled the auction house. The average player on Kronos didn't do this, just because you ruined the immersion of ingame cash having any value for yourself by abusing mechanics that won't be available on the fresh realm doesn't mean it was so for the majority. But hey, better try and make others remain even poorer with an imposed 50g respec for swapping specs so you can roll a hunter again and remain on top of the economy by your class having the best farming option out of any (soloing dm n).

The people who just want to kill others as retribution or balance or whatever won't magically become amazing teamplayers that never get cc'd and always time their cooldowns perfectly, instead of it they'll keep playing their niche specs and just run pug raids or raid in guilds that let them play their dps specialization without care for others. Not to mention that repentance is actually a pretty good spell to have for pugging when you can't always count on having decent peelers/dps that can cc in your team. Instead of an influx of healers you'll have an influx of fury/prot warriors, ds/ruin warlocks, ap/frost or later combustion mages and moonglow druids without feral charge in your wsg pugs.

Respeccing being more available also doesn't mean that every class becomes a frost mage for farming, for example as a priest you'll make money faster by just farming felcloth or silithus pages by aoeing with holy nova rather than speccing shadow and running oom after killing 3 mobs, as a druid you just want to team up with a warrior or level a farming alt yourself etc. Obviously you can also make gold with professions, but those aren't linked to specs anyway.

Pve also won't become super hard, or niche specs more common in the game even if you have a higher respec cost. You are playing vanilla wow in 2018, obviously the tryhards are going to optimize whatever they can to make for more dps. (Seriously, have you looked at Vanguard, they're having people level multiple characters to run double ID's and require their raiders to pick certain races. These people won't give a damn if the respec is 5g, 50g or 500g, they're going to optimize their raid either way.) With 50g respecs mages will either farm a bit after a raid because it's pretty easy to make 50g as a mage in DM E or just play alts for MC/BWL once AQ40 (where they'll want to spec fire for the first time) is out, because you know that with AQ40+ gear you can just stack physical damage to breeze through any blizzlike raid. You simply won't have people raiding Naxx in Elemental pvp spec like I did in 2006, because the attitude around this game has changed completely. Vanilla raids also won't be hard no matter what you do unless you absolutely rework some abilities, for the love of god feenix buffed their naxxramas four times over the retail values, and they still had backpedalers with no keybinds getting carried through the entire content because vanilla mechanics just happen to be that simple.
 
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I would not have been an active endgame PvPer and PvEer if there had not been a relatively low respec cost. It's absolute bullshit that you need to spend money to change your spec at all in my opinion, as that gold you spend merely represents time spent farming for money.
Do you believe you should only be able to change your playstyle or role after a certain amount of menial, tedious, mind-numbing farming? Why? What's the benefit? Weight of decision? Consequences? There are plenty of parts of the game that have hard consequences and weight to them, there is really no call to limit playstyle diversity behind /played grinding time.
Kronos has my everlasting respect at least on this point for changing one of the most backwards-ass aspects of original Vanilla.
So you'd like to have zero respec costs? Even retail didn't fall that low, to the best of my knowledge. You think respec costs "limit playstyle diversity"? Could add class re-rolls at this point. "A certain amount of menial, tedious, mind-numbing farming" is like 90% of this game, or at least of endgame PvE.
 
now please tell me how does it affect the game in a poor way ?
The OP and the others have said it a few times already. Low respec cost kills hybrid spec idea, makes PvE even easier. In 2005, not everyone could afford having the most efficient spec for each situation. On Kronos, everyone can. It makes the world less diverse - you don't see PvE-specced players trying to win in PvP by skill, you don't see PvP-specced players sneaking into the raids. There're advantages of lowered respec of course. Everyone can afford to play efficiently whenever they want, so cool. But honestly, "everyone can afford" concept killed WoW.
 
(and because we still can't edit, and I edit every fucking message I write)
Cons:
-It makes PvP cancer,
-It breaks your economy,
You can argue whether having tons of boomkins/shpriests on a BG is "cancerous", but really, boomkin is bad in PvE mostly because it's good in PvP. Again, two whole concepts are killed - the concept of a PvP-focused boomkin tryhard enough to be allowed to raid as boomkin, and the concept of a resto tryhard enough to get their hands on good boomkin pieces for PvP. On Kronos, it's just "give PvP pieces to whoever" - in 2005, you ideally would think whether a person can afford respeccing boomkin. And for economy, less gold sinks - more inflation.
 
moonkin in pve : well in wpve its strong, the extra armor while able to use improved balance spells is pretty huge (and you can autoattack and use two handed mace or staff for example)
 
improved balance spells +3% crit chance too which I believe is the amount of extra spell crit chance you get for 60 points of intellect, and it trigger nature grace
 
The OP and the others have said it a few times already. Low respec cost kills hybrid spec idea, makes PvE even easier. In 2005, not everyone could afford having the most efficient spec for each situation. On Kronos, everyone can. It makes the world less diverse - you don't see PvE-specced players trying to win in PvP by skill, you don't see PvP-specced players sneaking into the raids. There're advantages of lowered respec of course. Everyone can afford to play efficiently whenever they want, so cool. But honestly, "everyone can afford" concept killed WoW.
Then again before you probably had tons of people who considered if they should kill a night after finishing up the raid at 10pm with their newly acquired Lokamir and thinking: "meh, 100g for speccing back and forth on a class that already only can farm with another mate that isnt always available?" Better not respec. In my book it is better to have lots of optimized wPvP characters out in the world killing each other rather than a few gimped, and a couple actually PvP specced ones while the rest either just goes /sit because they cant win as holy in wPvP or they just stay in the capital city to begin with. In the end people will not try to win in PvP by skill, they will simply not PvP to begin with as prot warrior. Paladin or holy priest might contribute by heal botting some arms warrior. But a protection warrior simply gets ignored, not even CCed because he is a minor nuisance. Also hybrids being able to come into raids is more of a "Can you optimize your hybrid spec to play hybrid? Come along as hybrid". If you mean elemental shaman 31/0/20 simply healing, yes, this will be less. If you mean a druid actually carrying 3 sets of gear decursing/healing, OTing, DPSing, that remains to be seen, because a hybrid feral spec actually contributes to the raid composition and contributes in a different way than a full resto druid.
 
The OP and the others have said it a few times already. Low respec cost kills hybrid spec idea, makes PvE even easier. In 2005, not everyone could afford having the most efficient spec for each situation. On Kronos, everyone can. It makes the world less diverse - you don't see PvE-specced players trying to win in PvP by skill, you don't see PvP-specced players sneaking into the raids. There're advantages of lowered respec of course. Everyone can afford to play efficiently whenever they want, so cool. But honestly, "everyone can afford" concept killed WoW.
1. in 2005 people could expect a patch to change talents & abilities so when it happened they would have to pay. 2. casters such as warlock/mage can play in 1.12.1 without EVER changing spec while a warrior might have to change 40-50 times throughout the servers time. 3. afford ? people have free alt bank accounts for free that are used as banks... isnt this a bit more of an overall gold saver for all ?... 4. diverse means variety... you seem to have gotten a bit confused... if the cap was removed there would be less experimental builds, in 1.12.1 a lot of pve builds functioned in pvp anyways. The few PvE builds that would be restricted would only play 1-2 games a month at most and u would never see them + they would look like others when they play its just their talents wouldnt make them as effective... take a look at K3 pvp right now, its hard to tell apart talents & builds even now in pvp and its pretty much the same as K1 pvp and any other server, what you see as diff build is known as different playstyle or preffered abilities, if you want to see people use pve stuff in pvp you should stick to lvl 10-19 etc. to meet some of the new people before they get started. 5. since when did "everyone can afford" kill wow ?... even on retail u have subscription, repair, bank, consumable & proffessions. 6. warlock/mage and similar can play the entirety of 1.12.1 without a single respec while a warrior tank would have to do 10-50 depending on how active he is and if he enjoys being dps... how is this fair ? classes with higher repair costs pay more to respec as well ? Take for example me... i did 2 respecc's throughout K1 on warlock and that was just to try something diff... ofc the 2nd was to go back to original once i tried the pimp my imp build... i think the most respecs i did was on a mail class and that was quite similar... of the tanks however i have seen most have respecs once a week... if you remove the cap you reduce fairness and u would see less casual tanks for normal dungeon stuff and a lot more of those 33.6% warriors going pure dps only...
 
Something worth noting (and only worth noting), is that Kronos's direct "competition" (which amounts to basically only the incoming #freshserver Light's Hope) also reduced the maximum respec cap down from 50g to 25g. While 25g is more than 5g, I think it's worthy to mention that there isn't an actual popular vanilla server choice at the moment that has chosen to keep it at 50g. That means that we're in subjective territory as to whether the reduced cap is good for the game or not, presuming our goal is maintain loyalty in the face of other launching servers.
 
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