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    TwinStar team

[BWL] Blackwing Lair Blackwing Lair Pre-Release PTR Test Raid thread! (stream included!)

Zipzo

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#1
Stream has concluded. This is now a thread for feedback on the successful BWL PTR test raid!

Current List of noticed Issues to Address

- Rogue Class call on Nef doesn't teleport the player in front of the boss, just paralyzes them in place. Main hand disappears for small windows of time frequently.

- Minor pathing issues with some trash pulls and bosses, some ignoring LOS or walls occasionally.

- Skeletons from previous attempts during P1 of the Nefarian fight do no despawn going in to a new attempt.

- Theory : Broodlords Mortal Strike non-crits hit a weebit too high.

- Theory : Chromaggus's debuff application frequency seems a weebit high. This also is a concern for other mobs in the instance such as the Bronze Chrome Talon mob and his CC debuffs, or frenzy on Flamegore.

 
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#3
Rogue class call teleportation didnt work

Edit: At nef the skelletons didnt disappear after each wipe (at least on the right side)
 

Zipzo

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#4
A lot of the issues seem related to pathing, I imagine pinpointing that will solve a lot of the tiny issues we may have experienced, but I was very pleased for the most part. Occasional ignoring of LOS and pathing basically were the only hindrances.

The class calls seemed to work except for the Rogue teleportation. It was not correctly putting us in front of Nef, just paralyzing us in place when the call hits, and occasionally our main hand would disappear periodically through out the fight (or is this a mechanic I forgot?).

I'll try to think of more but for now I'm soo tired (4am), and I'll come back and add more of my thoughts. I'll keep the OP updated with listed issues.
 

Excy

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#5
It seemed for me that on Chromaggus he was putting Magics / Curses / Diseases too fast, I'm pretty sure all of us were spamming Decursive and we didn't even have time to clear everybody that a new batch came.

Also, I'm not sure if Mortal Strike damage on Broodlord is correct since Spudre saw on Combat Log when he died that he got hit for 6.4k NON CRIT Mortal Strike. On wowwiki it says it can CRIT up to 8k Damage on Plate wearers, which means that 6.4k NON CRIT is not the correct damage.

Apart from other Pathing bugs that screwed us over several times and the issue with Rogue Class Call mentioned above it was pretty well scripted, good job :).
 
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May 22, 2015
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#8
Didn't Broodlord's threat reduction work bad? Spudre didn't lose agro at all.

The 3 drakes cast Wing Buffets with 20-50 seconds in between. I don't think it should be that random. Shouldn't it be 30-35 secs apart?
 
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Aelin

Kronos Developer
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Jul 13, 2011
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#10
Well....
There is issue with LoS and going through walls and jumping on platforms with every npc.
For example spawns in Razorgore fight are jumping onto the platform.
Trash behind Vaelstrasz also went through wall and 1 mob even decided to go into the ceiling. Also spellbinder went to the wall.

Vaels:
Iceblock removing essence of the red.Check if it should. Because now it does.-It should -not a bug

Firemaw:
Stayed in wall after getting there for like 15 sec.

Broodlord:
He used only 1 mortal strike in the fight.->uses it every 20-30 sec.
Blastwave too often -recheck -> fixed
Knock away doesn`t reduce threat? -recheck

He can be trapped in the wall when moving him next to the corner. -bug

Suppression traps rearmed during boss fight. -???

firemaw+ebonroc+flamegor

Wing buffet probably badly scripted? Some guy from my raid explained it pretty good so please write it here. If not I`ll do it later. -fixed


Recheck timers+cd for every spell on drakes and broodlord.

Flamegor: Frenzy wrong cd possibly.



Death talon wyrmguard: very little cd for stun probably.



Nefarian: After sheep that person was invalid target and everyone was invalid target for him.

Also after pulling the instance should be in combat. Now after pull/after ress/after mc ended. People are out of combat.
 
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#11
Razoregore- dragonkin's seemed to ignore tanks and go right for razoregore(retest)
dragonkins weren't slowable (piercing howl method for example wouldn't work)

Vael- tech's didn't drop loot/despawned instantly

broodlord-agro range is TINY, overall it was nice. can't tell if blast nova threat dropped or not and if mortal strike was very rng'ish because 2 mortal strikes through a 4min fight seems odd

firemaw-MT died and flew through wall
adds after firemaw ran through the same wall

ebonroc-perfect

flamegore- was frenzying every 6-10s 3hunters was barely enough

chromag-either not enough dispellers or to many debuffs

nef- left tunnel adds were running through the walls to get to the right side healers
also if your side killed the adds fast enough you can leave combat
Once nef gets to 20% skeletons are suppose to spawn from the tunnels of where the chromatics were instead they spawned on our raid and had no time to react

~Terd. Good BWL. Hope fixes are made :smile:
 
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Hagson

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Oct 16, 2014
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#12
The adds in p3 nef did not spawn on top of the raid, they spawned from the skeletons. They moved very very fast though, you will want to check their speed.
 

Zipzo

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#13
Mobs within instances in general on Kronos have always moved quite fast though, correct? Their run away speed has always been a but overtuned but I never knew if that was purposeful or not. For example running stockades at level without some form of constantly applied slow like crippling poison made the instance nearly impossible. I saw the skellies come from their death spot which is natural, didn't think too much of the speed.
 
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moljac89

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#14
<--- guy from raid, about Wing Buffet.
-Wing buffet mechanic has 2 parts, threat reduction and knockback, which should happen at the same time, after 1 sec cast time. We found out that TR and KB are happening in different times, first it lowers threat, then targets next one on threat list, and after few sec (1-2), it knocks back new target and stays on it. And it is supposed to be fixed at 30sec CD, Firemaw's was exactly on 20sec, don't know about other two drakes but possibly the same.

Also, sidenote, I'd give +1 for Zipzo's NPC movement speed comment, same goes with spawns in Razorgore fight.
 

HBK

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#15
about Chromaggus debuffs: As one of the persons who only ever played BWL in 2 different places, which is on Retail in 2005/2006 and on Kronos (including Kronos2), i find the frequency and the number of debuffs that are getting applied to be very close to retail.

the guys that made BWL experience on Feenix or on other p-servers, probably make reference to the Chromaggus there and then it doesn't surprise me that some ppl say there are too many debuffs on kronos.

when raids use a very minimalistic healing setup, it is no surprise that you get trouble dispelling. back on retail it was common to have 7-8 priests in the raid and on top of it of course also a handful of druids and paladins/shamans. With a more retail-like healing setup, the dispelling on kronos won't be that much of a problem anymore.

in my opinion, if you reduce the number/frequency of debuffs on Chromaggus, it just makes the fight ridiculously easy, is that what you wanna have?
 

Excy

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#16
I'm not saying I want to have a fight ridiculously easy I want it properly scripted. If it was easy back then let it be easy on Kronos aswell, no need to overtune.

When I said that I was not basing on my Feenix Private Server experience, on my retail guild we cleared BWL with only around 4 priests 5 paladins and a few druids (possibly 3 max) and I, as 2nd Tank, do not recall them occuring so often nor it ever being a problem in Chromaggus fight.

Eitherway, I think since the opinions diverge it should be investigated and retested.
 

Moosic

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#17
For Lashlayer :

His Mortal Strike should appear more often. And the dmg was ok. Its one of the tricky parts of that fight that he is able to "oneshot" the tank with a unlucky combination of MS / BlastWave / Cleave whatsoever.

The amounts of Blasts Wave tho felt really good.

For the Threat Reduction - Its not the Blast Wave that reduces threat. But the single target threat reduce that should happen on the actual tank didnt happened at all I guess. We had no Tank Swap on the Alliance Raid and it should happen a lot.
 

qqzybtg

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#18
Mob path is terrible and unacceptable , as the other issues they are only unBlizzard-like spell setting which make raid harder. I like tough raid btw.

Jing
 

Excy

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#19
For Lashlayer :
His Mortal Strike should appear more often. And the dmg was ok. Its one of the tricky parts of that fight that he is able to "oneshot" the tank with a unlucky combination of MS / BlastWave / Cleave whatsoever.
When I mentioned the Mortal Strike issue Spudre indeed died with a Mortal Strike + Blast Wave, but the Mortal Strike itself (shown on Combat Log) hit him for 6.4k NON CRIT, so I really think its damage is an issue that should be adressed if this ever confirms to be true.
 

Macbain

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#20
When I mentioned the Mortal Strike issue Spudre indeed died with a Mortal Strike + Blast Wave, but the Mortal Strike itself (shown on Combat Log) hit him for 6.4k NON CRIT, so I really think its damage is an issue that should be adressed if this ever confirms to be true.
Greetings,

Even if I am not actively playing at the moment due to time constraints, I was following this thread and I would like to share my thoughts and experience.

BroodLord Lashlayer

- That dmg for the MS was quite common. He would indeed hit sometimes for this high amount non crit, and even go to 8k easy, in plate users. Depends, naturally, on the gear of the tank and I remember that it was quite hard on the tank when we got there the first time and our MT had 0 pieces of wrath.
We had the off-tank and dps warriors in tanking gear tanking the boss to also cope with the knock away (as several sites point out 50% threat reduction on the current target, hence the threat ceiling)
- The blast wave did not reduce any threat, was just a normal aoe dmg. The knock away was responsible for the threat reduction.
- The MS was relatively frequent and we had to setup our healers to cope with knock away. We sometimes had a combo of Knock away + MS on the offtank (Or vice-versa) leading to one shotted off-tanks if the healers did not preemptively shielded/healed the tank.
The frequency of the MS, just from my experience, was around at least one per tank before the knock away. This is not in any way a precise estimation but just from my experience.

The reason we used more than 2 tanks was to guaranty that we could decrease the issues with the aggro ceiling. That was the main difficulty of the fight. We had, in the first kills, to make sure dps slowed down and sometimes we even sent them for their death when we had some crazy warlocks nuking. We knew they would be the next in the list so we move them forward to get killed just so we did not have the boss running to us and blastwaving the raid.

Flamegore

Besides the usual Wing Buffet and timing taunts, the biggest issue (depending on the number of tanks) was the enrage.
The Enrage was quite frequent as far as I recall, but not in the 6 second range. I have a feeling that it was at least 10 seconds between each enrage with some variation there. I recall very well when we had some raids where we were low on hunters, lets say 2-3 and sometimes we could have sometimes issues with the enrage and having Flamegore lovely embracing us with blast waves.

As for Chromaggus debuff application, I remember that it was quite frequent and that I spent most of the time dispelling and throwing some hots/heals around. We had always players with 1-2 debuffs active at the same time and we actively had all healers focusing on dispelling the raid (all healers, minus the MT healers). Our setup included quite a few healers with minimum 13 with at least priests and the remaining filled with druids and shamans depending on the availably of players. When we were low on healers we had more difficulties on Chromaggus.

About nefarian skeletons spawning, they indeed should spawn where they are killed (jamesdes19 pointed out that thye spawned on the raid). We used to sit on the throne with the melee and tanks bellow (we did not use the throne to avoid the need for ony cloak), so we could bunch them up and kill them faster. At 20% we use to have an amazing pile of skeletons spawning at that spot.

As a final note: I never raided in private servers so I do not have any perception of the issues that plagued previous servers including badly implemented bosses that can lead, unfortunately to false assumptions of boss mechanics.
 

Aelin

Kronos Developer
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
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#21
Just wanna ask you guys so I don`t have to go through 50 useless videos. I need videos from bwl and as much as possible(someone wrote me during ptr test that they have some. So pm me if you can).
But I need videos with either good quality or with addons that shows in /raid when boss used some ability or tank was smacked with mortal strike for example in raid warning.
PM me if you have some of those.
Thanks.
 
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