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Calling on Competition

M

Masmin

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Location
Illinois
Hey Everyone,

So I was wondering what happened to the Horde pvp groups after Fei finished ranking. I've noticed an incredible lack of horde premades running at all during any time of day (Euro or NA). I'm not saying I don't mind mindlessly running WSG, AB etc. against pugs. However, it's just that, mindless. Yeah it gets me my honor, yeah I can easily get my cap and not worry about the rando-low ranks pushing honor. But it's not fun, and it's also not exciting. I love jumping in with the Alliance premade and seeing some of the old horde rankers getting pulled into a BG with some of the new guys to play the premades. It's both frustrating to get wrecked on my warrior and rewarding at the same to to beat them.

My question is, how did this happen.

Most places I've played on in the past had 1 solid alliance premade. The reason being, you would have some of the top raiding guilds people come together with their insane gear and want to push rank. However, you could always count on the horde having premades/groups as well.

I don't know if it's a lack of communication in the horde community but I want to see more consistent horde premades. For several reasons.

- I feel like when there isn't a horde premade going, Horde side quickly gets frustrated by being rolled on by 1 and recently even 2 alliance premades. Yeah the horde pug stomps the alliance pug, but when it goes from instant ques for 30 minutes to 10-15 min ques because of frustration on the horde side. It sucks for all parties.

- It also seems like there is very little organization as far as the horde bracket. A couple weeks ago I saw Bulldozzer hit st 1 as rank 6. The Hoochi got standing 4 or something, as rank 4. All while I see Crucifer and Wham farming hours on end. The horde cap is crazy. Most of the time I just see people end up waiting for us to 10 minute them because we can't end it sooner and cause the horde to not even get a mark.

I don't know what the reason behind it is, lack of a single guild having several people push rank. Or just egos/grinders getting in the way. But I feel bad that there is no current horde premade and I also want to see a little more competition on that front as well.
 
Burn is done with fragment farming now, so horde premades might become a thing.

A couple weeks ago I saw Bulldozzer hit st 1 as rank 6. The Hoochi got standing 4 or something, as rank 4. All while I see Crucifer and Wham farming hours on end.
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Funnily enough all these people are in the same guild.
 
I don't know if that is just bad communication between themselves then or what.

I know Eljay is finishing up his grind on Alliance side so who knows what he will play more when he's done. But how does Burn alone make or break a premade being formed? I know having a solid druid FC like burn or Eljay is hugely impactful on a game, but I can't believe that dictates if a group forms or not.

Hell, I very rarely see old rankers jump in with some of the new guys. Maybe they don't have any relationship with them at all or what it is. However, I guess I can't say I see too many old alliance rankers just pvping in BG's either. Maybe a lack of consistent pugging or faceroll grouping deters them from even enjoying casual BG pvp. Or it's probably more to the fact they are sick of BGs after the grind.
 
We group up from time to time, just not 18 hours a day everyday with a strong setup like a "serious" premade would.

as for the st4 at r4, i wanted AB exalted in a weekend. I stopped playing till the next week after i got it because Whame wanted a good standing.

There is communication between the guys you listed, you're not aware of that because we're guildies and usually speak in guild chat or whispers.
 
The thing about burn being done is, is he can play during eu times with his eu pals. If I try playing NA time all arcanum usually offline cept a couple of us.
 
This issue should resolve itself within the next couple of weeks. As today marks the 1 month of when a certain server announced it's demise. Those who came here the day of, or soon after are in the closing parts of their leveling.

Main cities are slowly becoming more populated, the Auction House has been reborn into the money making tool it is intended for, PUG spamming is more and more frequent, Battle Grounds and the organizational groups that come with it will surface soon.

Give it time.
 
It's going to take longer then just you random Nost people hitting 60. You won't do anything against the alliance premade at 60 with some engineering. I'm talking about the old rankers that can at this moment can acutally pose a threat. Maybe later when you guys get gear. But that is several, several weeks away at the earliest.
 
Smoker said:
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Nice reference Ayz!

The data shows Alliance is better at organizing itself to achieve a common goal because Alliance is less committed to PVP, hence they want to get it over with sooner.

There isn't a single serious competition going on right now. Vanguard assimilates pugs who wants to rank into their guild as socials (or whatever) in an effort to manipulate the person into cooperating.

This will keep on going until new tryhard rankers hit 60.

I predict that the rankers will have to invest much more time in order to achieve their goal. Looking very much forward to see this developing situation unravel itself soon.
 
Horde could need one or two of those really organized guys who would bring people together, I don't feel like there is any person like that. The fact that horde pug usually beats alliance pug doesn't help either, because it's actually viable ranking solo.

This has changed a little bit the last two weeks, I've been seeing a lot more fresh dinged green geared people queing, along with a rising number of chinese players, which are absolutely useless cannot communicate.

And when horde actually forms a group it seems like it's with a bunch of pve people who want to pvp for an hour.

Another factor is probably that any horde premade with the current rankers would most likely not beat the war sole premade, so there's less incentive.
 
Oh yeah and as soon as they lose to our alliance premade they stop queing. Which I can understand to some extent, you can't beat them so you don't want to waste time. By why not try and manipulate the group and keep trying? Half the people that are brought into the horde "premades" to fight our current alliance premade are old rankers. You would think some of them would enjoy the competition. I don't know and I can't say because I'm not on their side of the conversation.

I just think a solid horde premade would level the playing field a little bit more. But i agree. The horde pug stomping alliance pugs consistently definitely makes it easier to not form a premade because as long as horde are playing against the pug they roll.

It's a hard line to balance. I just hope that it can change a bit soon. I want a little more competition. And this isn't to say that I assume I'm good at all. I just enjoy having to be in a premade that tries a little more and causes the que's to continue to be instant instead of people getting bored of being rolled and turn into 20+ minute waits if not longer.
 
The reason why nobody wants to lead the premade is that there is a substantial amount of effort one has to invest into organizing everything.


  • You have to keep people happy and feel engaged in the group.
  • Motivate them to achieve a common goal.
  • Teach that working together as a team will benefit everyone in the end.
  • Be 100% positive that everyone knows how the honor system works. Even if they cause harm, they might not know that they are, or are just pretending to not know, it really doesn't matter which one it is. You can't blame them for not knowing if you didn't explain the system. Example: Selina.
  • All it takes is a single person to step out of line to break the house of cards by overfarming Honor and taking higher standings than they're supposed to. Example: Rorchard.
  • If you're the leader, and somebody goes out of line in any way, it will be your responsibility to answer to everybody else.

Even if you're being completely fair and set up a specific time where the premade is supposed to play - and it is confirmed that everyone agreed upon those terms - it can happen that one person comes late. Of course, you've filled up the group with somebody else by that time and started playing already, because not playing at all and making 9 people wait for a single person is out of the question.

Because people are people, they'll still cause trouble for you, here is one example.

I've had my fair share of struggles with all of these, but mostly the last point really is the most crucial because no one has absolute control over it aside from each individual player.
Without absolute trust between premade members, you can kiss your organized team goodbye.

The conclusion I came to is that - in a vacuum - administering standings in such a way that the currently highest ranked player gets the highest standing and continuing from there in successive order is the most fair approach. This requires consent from all premade members, which is what Ayz is referencing.

There is only one standing 1.
 
All the points you have stated are very much valid, but people, including myself still face these facts and want to preamde. It's stuff that will never go away but that doesn't mean you can't continue to form and run a premade. And the premade doesn't even have to be just rankers, it can be older rankers like I've said. It's surprising how little the old r11+ people actually run BGs. I can understand why, but still surprising.
 
I'm not saying forming a group is impossible, just that it's not the perfect solution to all problems.

Classic PVP ranking is less about fighting the opposing faction, but rather about fighting your own faction, or finding ways to make them fight together, or to be blunt: Manipulate people into working together.

Myntone had some insane Stamina with his solo grind (I respect him for that), but even he couldn't do it in the end. 2 weeks away from High Warlock he suddenly disappeared for a while, resurfaced later but never achieved his goal.
 
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I not even saying form a premade for honor grinding sake, although that is generally the reason to form one. But it isn't nearly as hard as you are making it out to be.
 
Why would they premade, with 50% of the current pvp population not 60 who cant compete for standing (except on AV) you can achieve rank 11/12 alone or in a small group.

You dont need to be a mathematician genius to see that you still get rank 9 -> rank 10 in 2 weeks if you are below st 50-55, which would have never occured prior 7x event where you needed at least st10 to not decay.

Lord, you can even get rank12 in 3 weeks if you just keep st 20...... with no real premade running in horde side why would they bother sharing st and fight with pug.
 
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I myself stopped pvping due to just getting bored of the game, i raid log mostly. However, when i do queue up BG's solo. I always just get matched these premades now. Gets boring, not worth the effort of making a premade to even compete. We also have 0 horde druids who will even run the flag, or even step into a BG.

Overwatch has had my game time recently. :cool2:
 
Haha why it's not worth the effort to make a premade if there is one to fight against already, good premade vs premade battlegrounds are highlight of Vanilla PvP and the only competative thing around..and Horde do have 2 druids that are ranking and play every day, same as on Alliance. On the contrary, Horde are quiet balanced when it comes to different classes in battlegrounds while on Alliance there arent any warlocks and rogues whatsoever.. But that's just relative thing and doesn't even matter, maybe it changes in couple of weeks, but what I wrote in the first sentance will always remain the truth..
 
Sarei said:
Haha why it's not worth the effort to make a premade if there is one to fight against already, good premade vs premade battlegrounds are highlight of Vanilla PvP and the only competative thing around..and Horde do have 2 druids that are ranking and play every day, same as on Alliance. On the contrary, Horde are quiet balanced when it comes to different classes in battlegrounds while on Alliance there arent any warlocks and rogues whatsoever.. But that's just relative thing and doesn't even matter, maybe it changes in couple of weeks, but what I wrote in the first sentance will always remain the truth..
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Well we all know;

Honorgrind=/=nice games

I'd love to be able to play some proper prem v prem but a lot of people just want to grind their honor in peace and then never join a bg again..
 
The grind does take something out of PvP but that's for 1-3 weeks, I think most past rankers would be game for a prem, but with some requirements that are not too easy to meet.

Also most Horde rankers did the grind solo, we simply don't know other guys that are not in same guild to get something started.
Shieeeeeet, I was same guild with 3 other rankers and only Bagde was straight with me from the start so I got in 50% of games with him and he just recently finished the Silithus grind.

And as rankers were finishing or helping others with grind then it was the nost thing, and some decided to stock up on consumables before chinatown sets up shop and it's impossible farm.
And now we just don't know rankers outside our guilds, again, and they don't know us.

I'm gonna guess the above is a somewhat familiar story for most past rankers, to some degree.
 
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Well I didn't know any rankers 5 weeks ago, but I just started up conversation and was able to jump in with the current grinders right away. Or grab the old guys.

As far as getting in a premade not being worth it? I don't understand that one bit. Like Sarei said, there are current druids that are grinding honor.
 
Because a real premade is a lot of work to organize (if not same guild), and if your premade can't beat easily the opposite faction premade, you can't just blindly tag in, you need to dodge and with the /who all fucked up it is even harder now.

With the current situation, i.e you can get easy rank 11/12, a small premade group is enought to farm the alliance pugs, as there are less horde you can control queue, use an alt to check which wsg is against a premade and dodge.
With this you can assure yourself a top 15 standing enought to get rank 12 quickly. You still need to get cooperation for rank13/14.
 
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