Character Auctions on Kronos

[Lharts]

It depends on how the seller is valuing his character. The last kronos was 7*.
I doubt you'd get ANYONE to trade something for that price. If anyone even sells that is.

 

[Aieris]

Who's right? the auction manual ? Psojed ?

As you can see, it's forbiden to discuss it anywhere else than on dedicated channel which means that if you are not interested in that, you will never be bothered by that. And i know what i'm talking about, i got 3 days ban for one line in world chat.

 

[Psojed]

Actually that depends on what gets established into the rules before Kronos starts. It should be subject to changes.

The manual was translated to english, but as you may have noticed, the channel name is in czech, which indicates that channel was established even before Kronos went international.
The detailed list of violations also confirms that you can advertise characters in this one specified channel, but again the Detailed List of Violations was simply translated into english and probably not perfectly worded, because right now it contradicts itself:

Ban on trading accounts and/or characters on public channels
- It is strictly forbidden to trade characters, accounts, Stars, gold or whatever else from WoW for real money.
- Any form of trading with accounts is forbidden.
- It is strictly forbidden to offer or ask for exchanging, purchasing or selling a character on public channels (public channels are “/say”, “/emote”, “/yell”, basic WoW channels, “/world (/worldCZ)”, “/aukcepostav” and “/bg” or “/raid” in BGs). For this purpose, use only the “aukce postav” channel (see the next point).
- If players want to trade with characters, they have a special in-game channel for it – “/aukcepostav”. This channel can be joined by typing the command “/join aukcepostav”.
- It is allowed to trade only with Twinstar accounts and/or characters. Trading with any other accounts and/or characters is strictly forbidden..

The czech version of the rules is missing the lower red part, even though the topic says the last edit date is the same, so yeah, subject to changes :wink:

 

[CJB]

Edit: Added original post of CJB:



Seems like you do not understand the whole concept.

If you would gain any power by buying an character from another player, the other one will lose it, won't he?

How is that unfair if a different player plays the same character? If you would get a free character from your friend that just stopped playing, is that pay to win? Should it be banned?

In order to sell your character you need to have access to your email address linked with the game account.
By the character auction nothing will change ingame. Only the controlling players change.



What?

... All "possible" abuses of the character auction mentioned here can be done without using the character auction ever. Can anyone name any "abuse" that cannot be done without using the auction house? I doubt.

I believe I do understand you on that part of this concept ... you're saying that a transfer of "power" is okay (ie: auctioning off characters...someone gains a character but someone else loses one - loses that power).

You are, in turn, saying that when a character, or armor/weapons are created (this power is created) and sold, it is not okay (according toward the beliefs held by Kronos [It is pay to win - the power is not transferred but created and given away]).

Do I got that right?

... Well, this is what I am saying: The reason it is unfair for a different player to buy, own, and play a level 60 (using transferred power OR created power) he did not level up, gear, and work for, is because, HE DID NOT LEVEL UP GEAR OR WORK FOR IT.

The whole, "If you would get a free character from your friend..." thing is COMPLETELY different. Should that not be allowed? No, it shouldn't. Back in Vanilla they didn't let you even give accounts away. Not even to family. Now, is it going to happen? Yea, probably. Just like in Vanilla. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE HAVE TO PERPETUATE THE VERY PROBLEM WITH REGULATION AND INCREASED TRAFFIC FLOW.

On your last quote of my original post, you must have mis-understood me, my manng. I was not talking about any sort of character auction abuses. When I said, "Character auction seems even worse than the conventional pay to win, in many, many, ways."

I merely meant that being able to buy a fully geared auctioned level 60 is WORSE than the standard tier armor for sale pay to win systems.

Also, on a side note -- I edited my original post literally two seconds after I posted it. It was my intention to try and get more information before posting my full thoughts. Further comments managed to inform me enough though and your quote ended up working out -- so thanks for being quick draw Chero .

 

[SeeQ]

Oh jesus.. People think that half of the server will level up and fill the auction with characters? Whats the point, you get nothing out of selling characters, you only get stars, which is the twinstar donate currency and the only use for it pretty much is to buy another character and class swap if you dont want to play yours.

Maybe some people think selling your character for 20 euros gives you 20 euros irl

 

[Amrod]

Twinstar team chose a quite misleading name for this tool. It should rather be called "character exchange system", because that's all it does. You are buying a character transfer from another player, and all the seller can do with the proceeds of his auction is buy a character from someone else himself.

 

[Psojed]

Twinstar team chose a quite misleading name for this tool. It should rather be called "character exchange system", because that's all it does. You are buying a character transfer from another player, and all the seller can do with the proceeds of his auction is buy a character from someone else himself.

Correct. But instead of simply transfering, Twinstar added the element of auction, so multiple people can compete for a single character and the owner of the character can choose the amounts required for his toon to transfer to another person.

I believe I do understand you on that part of this concept ... you're saying that a transfer of "power" is okay (ie: auctioning off characters...someone gains a character but someone else loses one - loses that power).

You are, in turn, saying that when a character, or armor/weapons are created (this power is created) and sold, it is not okay (according toward the beliefs held by Kronos [It is pay to win - the power is not transferred but created and given away]).

Do I got that right?

Yes.
How I see it:
- Creating more into the existing mix (for example items) creates inbalance, where the player who buys does not need to go to the dungeons to get that item, buy it on the AH or raid for it if it is a raid drop, reducing his playtime and slowly moving towards not playing at all.
- You can buy the items at any time.
- You can also import that item on ANY character that you own.

- Getting the items from CAH character does not add more items into the mix, the character was played before that by someone and that someone went to the dungeons, AH or raids to gain that item. He actually played the game.
- The characters sold on CAH are only real players' characters, thus you will only have a chance to buy it IF another player decides to leave the server or start playing a new toon without going back to his old. His character would normally stay inactive and possibly get deleted after a long time. This way his character can be handed to another player who (for example) does not have the time to level up on 1x rates.
- If nobody decides to leave his character up for someone, you cannot buy anything. It's up to the players decision to support this altogether. The CAH starts empty.
- Such an item also stays bound on his character, you cannot buy a char and get his epic belt for your main char.

... Well, this is what I am saying: The reason it is unfair for a different player to buy, own, and play a level 60 (using transferred power OR created power) he did not level up, gear, and work for, is because, HE DID NOT LEVEL UP GEAR OR WORK FOR IT.

Like I posted in that big reply, the money did the work. It is players choice to use time or money to level up. And the money option is severely limited.
How is this unfair? It's like saying that if someone buys a car it is unfair to people who can build their own.

The whole, "If you would get a free character from your friend..." thing is COMPLETELY different. Should that not be allowed? No, it shouldn't. Back in Vanilla they didn't let you even give accounts away. Not even to family. Now, is it going to happen? Yea, probably. Just like in Vanilla. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE HAVE TO PERPETUATE THE VERY PROBLEM WITH REGULATION AND INCREASED TRAFFIC FLOW.

Again with the accounts trading or borrowing. WTF people. Your account stays your own forever, if you are discovered trying to sell your account to another person, your account gets banned.

I merely meant that being able to buy a fully geared auctioned level 60 is WORSE than the standard tier armor for sale pay to win systems.

See up.

 

[jorim]

The whole, "If you would get a free character from your friend..." thing is COMPLETELY different. Should that not be allowed? No, it shouldn't. Back in Vanilla they didn't let you even give accounts away. Not even to family.

It's pretty obvious why that isn't allowed in retail: blizzard doesn't earn money from it.
If someone gets an account that person doesn't need to buy the expansions and the game cards in order to get the same character, making them loose money.


So if you want a truely blizzlike server it will have to earn a lot of money.

 

[krutopatkin]

The whole, "If you would get a free character from your friend..." thing is COMPLETELY different. Should that not be allowed? No, it shouldn't. Back in Vanilla they didn't let you even give accounts away. Not even to family.

haha I shared my retail account with three other guys in Vanilla, it's not like Blizzard cared.

 

[Hagson]

Can you give us a reasonable example of how will trading level 60 characters encourage botting?

I'm not that guy but I'll answer for him.
Before the reasons for botting leveling was to get another level 60, which obviously is something desireable.
Now the reason for botting leveling is to get another level 60 OR to get stars for free. You have more to gain, thus more incentive to do so.

Correct. [...] You could always see character names as far as I remember. And you could never see items until armory was made.

So if the names are indeed shown then I could just compare the name of the character to his armory profile (either official armory or an unofficial like realmplayers). I could then choose to buy a character based on his gear, allowing me to essentially buy gear, provided it was farmed in the convential way.

Better stop the examples, they keep going the wrong way...
Theft = taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.
Trade = transfer of the ownership of goods or services from one person or entity to another in exchange for other goods or services or for money. The important part is that both parties agree to it.

You really don't see what I'm trying to say do you? I'll break it down.

Stealing is something that is usually disallowed. Most people and governments try to prevent stealing since people in general don't like (apart from the theif of course). Noone is able to fully prevent stealing, it will always happen whatever you do.
The conclusion is to keep stealing illegal and take measures to prevent stealing from happening.

Selling characters / accounts is something that is usually disallowed. Most players and servers try to prevent the selling of accounts/characters since people in general don't like it (apart from the seller/buyer of course). Noone is able to fully prevent the selling/buying of characters/accounts, it will always happen whatever you do.
The solution most servers do is to keep selling of accounts/characters illegal and take measures to prevent it from happening.

What Kronos does is instead to allow it saying "It will always happen, so why even try to prevent it?".
This is analogous to a government saying "Stealing (or murder) will always happen, so why even try to prevent it?".

Now do you see the point of my example?

Oh please do that. Sadly, the characters in the auction do not appear out of thin air, so I'm quite curious when will the first level 60 ever to be sold appear in the CAH.

When doing this becomes available is not related. We all know at some point it will be, at least 10 people will want to use this function, otherwise Kronos wouldn't spend the time implementing and maintaining it.

I'd bet it will take much longer than if you would actually level up those 10x60 chars on your own.

If the player leveling 10 characters and the player attempting to buy 10 character starts on release day the player leveling will most likely win.
If they start a year down the line the player buying will win my an enormous margin.

You cannot camp herb spawn points, because they are pooled and keep changing locations...

You're right, I was thinking of feenix's shoddy implementation of spawning.

I'm sure that if you are the only "one man tailor guild" on the server, you will control the market. But you won't be the only tailor.

While that might not be the case, I will still be 10 times as powerful as any other tailor, and thus have an advantage over that player gained by buying characters.

But yet again, you are not buying more options.

I am. Let's say I level a druid to level 60. Now my choices are to play a level 60 druid or a level 1 of any class.
Then I buy a level 60 priest.
Now my choices are to play a level 60 druid, a level 60 priest or a level 1 of any class.
I bought an option.

Another thing is the auction itself. Yes, it works like a regular ingame auction house. Remember those overpriced epics on Failnix?
If someone ever decided to stop playing his beloved r14 pew pew imba character with Sulfuras (which I highly doubt), do you think he would give it to a stranger for nothing?

I don't really see what you're trying to say with this, but I'll say this:
People to quit after obtaining rank 14 or BiS PvE gear, in fact it's quite common. For some people obtaining the gear is what's important, not killing horde/alliance/dragons. This person would not give that character/account away for free, he'd sell it for stars, attempt to sell it for RL money, give it to a friend or just do nothing with it.

Umm, yes that's kinda the thing of buying something, isn't it?

Yes, which is why it's bad and should not be implemented

Since you like examples, I will give you one. Joe and Jill walk into the bakery and Jill buys some bread, Joe decides not to buy anything. Now Jill has spent her money and gained advantage over Joe, she can eat bread right now. But that doesn't limit Joe's chances to bake his own bread, does it? Nor does it make Jill superior to Joe, bread doesn't make you any superior to others. She spent less time, but she lost some money in return, and the baker can feed his children. That's also how the world works.

Jill spent IRL money to get an IRL advantage. There is nothing wrong with this. This is not the same thing as spending IRL money to get an in-game advantage.

Twinstar's character auction works the same way. An extra level 60 character does not make you superior to others, so I don't see your problem.

It does, see my posts about options and tailoring.

Correct. In my eyes, that is not an advantage. This is your choice to get to the level cap - one person uses money, another person uses time. Buyer or non-buyer are still the same, both are limited by level 60 cap, by the items they can get, proffs they can use, and so on.

In my eyes using IRL money (the means of which obtaining these are not related to the game) to earn an advantage in game should not be allowed. While it's still possible to obtain the same abilities a "buyer" has as a "nonbuyer" it's a lot harder and takes more time and effort. So no, they are not the same.

And this is why buying the character will NOT get you an unfair advantage.

It does, see my posts about options and tailoring.

Okay, let's try it.

- Is there an unlock system in your game? By buying a level 60 I unlock the ability to go to raids, so I guess
YES.
- Can you buy unlocks with cash? You can buy level 60 when someone sells it, so
YES.
- Do the unlocks change how you play the game? example: give you more choices of classes or professions
NO

Yes, the unlocks give me more choices of classes or professions, see my posts about options and tailoring. While it's true that you don't get a profession exclusive to "buyers" you still get more professions than "nonbuyers".

Altering the last part a bit to be more specific...
- Do the unlocks change how you play the game? example: give you more choices of how to beat a raidboss or how to win in a PvP duel?
NO

Yes they do, I'll use the same example as I did in my post about options.
Before I bought the priest I had the option of fighting the raidboss as a level 60 druid or any level 1 class.
Now I have the option to fight the raidboss as a level 60 druid, a level 60 priest or any level 1 class.
The same does of course work for a duel.

I guess that with your handy chart, we passed.

See above.
Also note the section about the cash shop, namely "exp boosts or items that save you time".
Buying a character that someone else leveled and geared for you is undeniably buying something that "saves you time". So "you" failed twice.

Your main issue seems to be with there being a huge advantage in buying a character. Such advantage that you will not be able to keep up without using the advantage itself, correct?

Yes, almost. I'm not saying you have to buy more characters to be competive or play the game to its limits. I'm just saying that buying more characters will objectively make you stronger than other players, meaning that keeping up with someone who buys a lot of characters is very hard to do without buying characters yourself.

I see you swapped from "characters" to "accounts" suddenly. Sadly, Twinstar does not allow trading accounts, so get back on track :wink:

This was a mistake on my end, but since this is a private server where creating accounts is free I dont see anyone putting more than one character one the same accounts, except for bank alts and similar of course.

Replace "accounts" with "characters" in that sentence and it will mean the exact same thing on a private server.

Twinstar team chose a quite misleading name for this tool. It should rather be called "character exchange system", because that's all it does. You are buying a character transfer from another player, and all the seller can do with the proceeds of his auction is buy a character from someone else himself.

While I don't believe that this is what you mean, it could be a nice middle ground.
Transform the CAH into a Character Trading System, where you trade one level 60 character for another level 60 character. Make it so that you don't get to keep the name or gear, etc from the former owner.
This way you can't buy more power or options, only exchange your current set of options for another set of options. This would remove the transfer of power from one player to another, and still allow people to "try out another class" like so many have expressed interest for.

It's pretty obvious why that isn't allowed in retail: blizzard doesn't earn money from it.

I literally laughed at this.




Holy shit this became a long post.

 

[CJB]

"Again with the accounts trading or borrowing. WTF people. Your account stays your own forever, if you are discovered trying to sell your account to another person, your account gets banned."

You misunderstand, my man, partly my fault:

In Vanilla you could not transfer characters, so to get a character, one had to receive a whole account...that is what we are referencing. We understand that only the character and not account will transfer on Kronos - we just disagree with it.

It seems we understand each other pretty well now though, but just do not see eye to eye [but hey, that's not always a bad thing].

Kronos believes that a transfer of power/character is justified because someone leveled and geared him up once upon a time - that is not justified in my eyes.

Let's take a quick mental look at the Feenix Emerald Dream Server. It's been up for a few years now and there are plenty of dormant characters. Bad ass dormant characters. If your system was implemented all those characters would be bought (thru virtual currency or not, it is still considered a purchase in my eyes - somewhere down the road, it is *bought*) and then played by some undeserving random who did not work for any of the value, that the character represents.

You say Feenix is better off with randoms playing past heroes, I say those past heroes should remain in the past, and live on only through memory.

Imma end with this comment once more:

Being able to auction off fully geared level 60s, whether transferred, or simply created, destroys not only the value of that character (that "purchase"), but EVERY OTHER character on the server.

How does it do this?

It takes away any effort contributed by the buyer. He did not have to work for anything.

There will eventually be people rolling around with badass characters, IN WHICH THEY DID NOT WORK FOR AT ALL; this in turn dumps the value of every other character on the server because you can just say fuck it and buy a badass toon.

Working for something loses it's pleasure and merit when someone else can get to the same conclusion without lifting a finger.

Lastly, we gotta stop with these crazy comparisons, hahaha. All of us - it's getting a bit too out there and they barely apply, if at all >.<!

 

[Psojed]

Spoiler includes the wall of text for Hagson. If you don't like the details, read the last part only :wink:

Spoiler

I'm not that guy but I'll answer for him.
Before the reasons for botting leveling was to get another level 60, which obviously is something desireable.
Now the reason for botting leveling is to get another level 60 OR to get stars for free. You have more to gain, thus more incentive to do so.

Okay, but I seriously doubt that anyone with a brain will bot for stars :biggrin: The risk of getting caught botting and getting permabanned is way too high and all auctions are permanently logged.
Btw., I wouldn't want to have more level 60s, I'm an anti-alt player beacuse I'd need to decide which one to play, and whenever I can stay on one char, I do so. More characters being desirable is just your own opinion.

So if the names are indeed shown then I could just compare the name of the character to his armory profile (either official armory or an unofficial like realmplayers). I could then choose to buy a character based on his gear, allowing me to essentially buy gear, provided it was farmed in the convential way.

I once sold a character back on Kronos, like three years ago? The character itself is probably deleted, but the auction is still visible in my history.
Unofficial armory won't guarantee the character didn't get stripped of everything before going into AH. Official AH will do so, the TBC and higher expansion realms CAH even links to the official armory by default, so you can check before you buy.

You really don't see what I'm trying to say do you? I'll break it down.

Stealing is something that is usually disallowed. Most people and governments try to prevent stealing since people in general don't like (apart from the theif of course). Noone is able to fully prevent stealing, it will always happen whatever you do.
The conclusion is to keep stealing illegal and take measures to prevent stealing from happening.

Selling characters / accounts is something that is usually disallowed. Most players and servers try to prevent the selling of accounts/characters since people in general don't like it (apart from the seller/buyer of course). Noone is able to fully prevent the selling/buying of characters/accounts, it will always happen whatever you do.
The solution most servers do is to keep selling of accounts/characters illegal and take measures to prevent it from happening.

I like how you generalized the Stealing, but you didn't generalize Selling. If you did, you would have to change the first sentence, as "Selling is something that is usually allowed". :wink: As for your stealing analogues, ripoff prices in many stores are basically stealing too and it's perfectly legal.

I'd say the people who play on Twinstar servers are pretty fine with selling characters too, just by looking at the number of auctions right now.
And once again I appeal that you and others stop posting about selling accounts, as Twinstar does not allow or encourage selling accounts.

What Kronos does is instead to allow it saying "It will always happen, so why even try to prevent it?".

Twinstar actually still prevents selling characters anywhere except one specific channel and using anything else than Twinstar's specific tool. Admins took the selling, reduced the risk involved and made it so that it actually helps keep the server working. If that extra money helps (for example) prevent a DDOS attack, all the selling is damn fine with me!

This is analogous to a government saying "Stealing (or murder) will always happen, so why even try to prevent it?".

Now do you see the point of my example?

This is where we do not agree. You see it as if it's the government's fault that some people are stealing stuff. I'd say it's the thieves' fault that they steal stuff. Keep your opinion if you want, but I don't agree with it :wink:

If the player leveling 10 characters and the player attempting to buy 10 character starts on release day the player leveling will most likely win.
If they start a year down the line the player buying will win my an enormous margin.

Correct and I have no issues with that.

Next part of the post is cut, as I feel there is one answer to it all.

While that might not be the case, I will still be 10 times as powerful as any other tailor, and thus have an advantage over that player gained by buying characters.
...
Let's say I level a druid to level 60. Now my choices are to play a level 60 druid or a level 1 of any class.
Then I buy a level 60 priest.
Now my choices are to play a level 60 druid, a level 60 priest or a level 1 of any class.
I bought an option.

In my opinion, gaining a special benefit is the describing perk of pay to win. The only thing CAH brings is a choice between levelling and buying, you don't gain any special benefit like an extra class otherwise unplayable to non-buyers, a special profession or whatever... all the options you described are available to a non-buyer too.

Also note the section about the cash shop, namely "exp boosts or items that save you time".
Buying a character that someone else leveled and geared for you is undeniably buying something that "saves you time". So "you" failed twice.
...
In my eyes using IRL money (the means of which obtaining these are not related to the game) to earn an advantage in game should not be allowed. While it's still possible to obtain the same abilities a "buyer" has as a "nonbuyer" it's a lot harder and takes more time and effort. So no, they are not the same.

Yes, the person will save time. The character will not.
It still had the seller's time invested in it. An exp boost will cause that your character will be levelling faster. An auctioned character will not be levelling faster, the previous owner levelled at the same speed as anyone else, and /played will be your permanent proof. (unless /played is wiped too, I'm not really sure on this hah :biggrin: )

I find your opinion awfully narrow-minded. It's no different from asking your friend to level up a priest for you. Should Twinstar ban people levelling up characters for their friends?

You gained a priest and saved time, but your friend invested his time. In CAH, a friend is replaced by stranger, and pizza (or whatever :biggrin: ) is replaced by stars, that give no advantage.

Yes, almost. I'm not saying you have to buy more characters to be competive or play the game to its limits. I'm just saying that buying more characters will objectively make you stronger than other players, meaning that keeping up with someone who buys a lot of characters is very hard to do without buying characters yourself.

In my opinion, this is only true if you are able to simultaneously play all the characters you buy. You cannot play multiple chars from one account. For 10 characters, you would need 10 accounts and that makes you a multiboxer, which is yet another story of different opinions...

I'll add the previous post.

What you are doing is openly encouraging selling characters.
And that is an enormous difference. It's the difference between saying "this is a problem lets deal with it" and "we wont be able to solve this problem to 100%, so let's make some money off it instead".

The beauty of WoW is that you don't have to keep up with anything.
You don't need to kill raidbosses with world-first raiding guilds. You don't have to reach R14 at the same time as a nolife PvPer, nope. You can take your pace.
I don't really see why should I give a damn thing about someone being able to buy a level 60! He can only do so much as I can, even if I take my time and do it in a whole year, so where's the problem?
This is a question about enjoying the game. If you don't enjoy the game at a slow pace, you want to levelup fast or get instant 60. People who enjoy it at a slow pace, want to levelup slowly and enjoy every minute of it.

Usually servers change xp rates, which discourage one part of the community or another. This is an attempt to provide options for the whole community. While server stays at 1x rate,
- All characters in the CAH are sold by previous players, levelled on 1x xp rates and geared with blizzlike professions, raids and dungeons as any other existing character.
- Only the 1x players themselves may allow the trading itself. If all the 1x players decide not to trade their characters, there won't be any characters to buy at all.

I'd say you should direct your opinions to the players willing to sell their characters and persuade those to not do so, as Twinstar established regulations and left a completely free hand to the server community.

And one extra quote:

Transform the CAH into a Character Trading System, where you trade one level 60 character for another level 60 character. Make it so that you don't get to keep the name or gear, etc from the former owner.
This way you can't buy more power or options, only exchange your current set of options for another set of options. This would remove the transfer of power from one player to another, and still allow people to "try out another class" like so many have expressed interest for.

This is already a part of CAH :yes: When you create an auction, you can select if it's a classic auction (buy for stars) or Trade auction (buy one [CR]lvl 60[/CR] character with your own [CR]lvl 60[/CR] character). Of course the gear stays on the characters. It wouldn't make much sense to try out a naked warrior, would it?

 

[jorim]

No offense to Hagson and JCB, but there is so much facepalm in some of their arguments that they make it very hard for me not te get nervous. They seem to be fundamentally against this feature and refuse to follow other peoples logic.

Let's take a quick mental look at the Feenix Emerald Dream Server. It's been up for a few years now and there are plenty of dormant characters. Bad ass dormant characters. If your system was implemented all those characters would be bought (thru virtual currency or not, it is still considered a purchase in my eyes - somewhere down the road, it is *bought*) and then played by some undeserving random who did not work for any of the value, that the character represents.

Okay afaik the characters will have a buyout price of twinstar points with the equivalent of about 15€ maximum. So the character can never be more expensive than this. To make it 100% clear the seller only gets donation points and not actual money. So you think people that quit will put up their "bad ass" characters in order to get a small amount of donater currency? While they can only buy a different lvl 60 or a murloc pet with it for a game they stopped playing?

If they want to get rid of it they will just sell their account on the black market for REAL money. If you think this doesn't happen on every private or retail server you are in for a surprise. Just google "buy emerald dream account" and you will be amazed.

Someone is even offering 250€ for a warrior with a little bwl gear.
http://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/wo...x-emerald-dream-warrior-account-250-euro.html
My point is if someone wants to sell for a profit he will always do it on the black market and never trough this system.

The only thing kronos offers is
1) a safe way to trade your character with someone else if you want to play a different class
2) an option for new players that are die hard against x1 leveling to buy a real character someone else has leveled to 30, 40, 50 or 60 and buy it in a safe way. These are people who might never play here if it wouldn't be possible. Which will be good for the population and who is against that? It still makes or breaks a probate server.

And this all happens without you noticing a single thing ingame and not causing any inbalance. The traded character will even get a free name change, so no one on your friend list will suddenly become a stranger.


What actually worries me is when nostalrius will restore the instant 60 accounts from the beta. There will be so many accounts for sale on the black market that they will almost be free causing so mich inbalance. Besides that I don't see much difference with Kronos.


I can go further if you want. Some people are yelling twinstar will become corrupt like feenix. But that is a really different case. As you know feenix sells gear for money. They have mainly 2 people enlisted now. A guy named endert is getting payed to keep the servers in a somewhat playable state. A guy named anaaz is in charge of donations and forum police. mentioning other projects is strictly forbidden and threads asking about the non-existant development (soon tm) get trashed. So about the donations, you can pretty much mail anaaz for everything you can wish for, for any server, if you show the right money. Tier 1, Tier 2, legendaries, it's all np. Anaaz gets his 10% cut and the original feenix owners take the rest. Think of it what you want, but it is the only vanilla private server with a business model that seems to be working out for them.


At least on kronos there is transparancy and freedom of speech. It is not so common in the private server scene. I haven't seen a single topic get locked here.

 

[Nuke]

If character Auction takes place on Kronos, eventually characters will be sold there. To stop your auction and prove how shamefull and gamebreaking it is. As a Vanilla fan for the past 10 years. I am willing to outbid/buy every character sold and personally delete them. People can keep stating what pleases their view point, but in the end Characters you did not level your self nor geared up or grindfested should never be available to others. Hence I Swear I will outbuy everyone and trash the characters personaly cause that is how gamebreaking and INSUTLING it is to a Oldschool Vanilla player that has dedicate that much time and effort into this game. This is a damn disgrace to wow fans, how can you leaglize this? You people and the project team should be ashamed!!!

 

[Shadowlurk]

If character Auction takes place on Kronos, eventually characters will be sold there. To stop your auction and prove how shamefull and gamebreaking it is. As a Vanilla fan for the past 10 years. I am willing to outbid/buy every character sold and personally delete them. People can keep stating what pleases their view point, but in the end Characters you did not level your self nor geared up or grindfested should never be available to others. Hence I Swear I will outbuy everyone and trash the characters personaly cause that is how gamebreaking and INSUTLING it is to a Oldschool Vanilla player that has dedicate that much time and effort into this game. This is a damn disgrace to wow fans, how can you leaglize this? You people and the project team should be ashamed!!!

Agreed 100%. Bravo! :biggrin:

 

[krutopatkin]

If character Auction takes place on Kronos, eventually characters will be sold there. To stop your auction and prove how shamefull and gamebreaking it is. As a Vanilla fan for the past 10 years. I am willing to outbid/buy every character sold and personally delete them. People can keep stating what pleases their view point, but in the end Characters you did not level your self nor geared up or grindfested should never be available to others. Hence I Swear I will outbuy everyone and trash the characters personaly cause that is how gamebreaking and INSUTLING it is to a Oldschool Vanilla player that has dedicate that much time and effort into this game. This is a damn disgrace to wow fans, how can you leaglize this? You people and the project team should be ashamed!!!

you seem to be taking video games pretty seriously

 

[Esso]

If character Auction takes place on Kronos, eventually characters will be sold there. To stop your auction and prove how shamefull and gamebreaking it is. As a Vanilla fan for the past 10 years. I am willing to outbid/buy every character sold and personally delete them. People can keep stating what pleases their view point, but in the end Characters you did not level your self nor geared up or grindfested should never be available to others. Hence I Swear I will outbuy everyone and trash the characters personaly cause that is how gamebreaking and INSUTLING it is to a Oldschool Vanilla player that has dedicate that much time and effort into this game. This is a damn disgrace to wow fans, how can you leaglize this? You people and the project team should be ashamed!!!

Why don't people in this topic just understand that no matter what, people will always sell and buy characters. It is just so easy to create each character on a separate account just in case I want to sell it later with whole account and e-mail. The only thing that removal of char auction will lead to is people getting forced to sell/buy on black market with lots of scammers (and then coming to us crying they were robbed - and we can't do anything about that since they willingly gave away their account).

 

[goris]

I kind of get your outrage. The real world isn't fair so you at least want the pretend world to be. That's a nice thing to want. But try to think about it this way: if nobody ever told you that the character auction is there, would you even notice? Let's imagine this thread didn't exist, the ingame chat is only about LFG/trade/Mankrik's wife and your guildmates have more interesting things to discuss. The character auction is still there, doing its thing. Would you be aware of any of it?
I'm going to answer my own question and say that no, you most likely wouldn't notice. Is it really that important and that big of a deal when it's not even noticeable unless told about?

 

[Nuke]

That is something that will Never Change. That is a Risk people take when they wish to trade their Account or Characters. Which is not different from the time and effort you use to make this project and the time we will devote and invest in this project in the past/future. People who are serious, who devote themself to their characters will Never accept this. I am Giving you a Warning, Think about what your about to do. People here are to damn afraid to give a piece of their mind. Respect that some people are against this.

 

[krutopatkin]

People who are serious, who devote themself to their characters will Never accept this.

I'm pretty sure I am serious, and will devoute myself to my character. Still plan on accepting this.

Respect that some people are against this.

Respect that the majority genuinely does not care enough.

 

[Hagson]

Spoiler

Twinstar actually still prevents selling characters anywhere except one specific channel and using anything else than Twinstar's specific tool.

So they dont prevent selling characters.

This is where we do not agree. You see it as if it's the government's fault that some people are stealing stuff. I'd say it's the thieves' fault that they steal stuff. Keep your opinion if you want, but I don't agree with it :wink:

Of course it's the thief that is acting wrongly, I'm just saying we should try to stop instead of saying "It's gonna happen even if we try to stop it, so lets not try to stop it".

In my opinion, gaining a special benefit is the describing perk of pay to win. The only thing CAH brings is a choice between levelling and buying, you don't gain any special benefit like an extra class otherwise unplayable to non-buyers, a special profession or whatever... all the options you described are available to a non-buyer too.

Yes, you dont gain anything exclusive, just like I said myself. You, the player, get more options though.
And it's not a choice between leveling and buying, you either level or you buy or you level and buy.

Yes, the person will save time. The character will not.

Yes, but it's the person that matter isn't it?
From everyone elses point of view it will look like this:
Wow that guy has ashkandi and r13, he must be really dedicated and spend a lot of time and effort on his character. Or he threw down 15 eur.
See how it completely ruins the feeling of achievement? It's like in retail where gear doesn't mean shit anymore cause any scrub can get it.

I find your opinion awfully narrow-minded. It's no different from asking your friend to level up a priest for you. Should Twinstar ban people levelling up characters for their friends?

Twinstar should disallow the selling of characters and accounts, yes. Account lending is still fine IMO, so long as the owner remains the same. Paying someone to level your character should not be ok though.

In my opinion, this is only true if you are able to simultaneously play all the characters you buy. You cannot play multiple chars from one account. For 10 characters, you would need 10 accounts and that makes you a multiboxer, which is yet another story of different opinions...

It's true even if you're not a multiboxer, you could just log your druid out and log the priest in. It takes about 20 seconds. And you don't have to multibox to make mooncloth.

I'd say you should direct your opinions to the players willing to sell their characters and persuade those to not do so, as Twinstar established regulations and left a completely free hand to the server community.

I'll never blame someone for making use of a system in the intended way, even if I believe the system is wrong. Not making use of this system would put you at a disadvantage. The right way to go about this is to try to prevent it from being implemented in the first place.

This is already a part of CAH :yes: When you create an auction, you can select if it's a classic auction (buy for stars) or Trade auction (buy one [CR]lvl 60[/CR] character with your own [CR]lvl 60[/CR] character). Of course the gear stays on the characters. It wouldn't make much sense to try out a naked warrior, would it?

All right, now remove the function to trade it for stars, and don't the characters keep their gear since that way you're not buying a class and a level, you're buying a class and a level and gear.

If they want to get rid of it they will just sell their account on the black market for REAL money. If you think this doesn't happen on every private or retail server you are in for a surprise. Just google "buy emerald dream account" and you will be amazed.

I never said it doesn't happen on other servers. I have said many, many times that it does happen on other servers. Who is that is not following other peoples logic?

The only thing kronos offers is
1) a safe way to trade your character with someone else if you want to play a different class
2) an option for new players that are die hard against x1 leveling to buy a real character someone else has leveled to 30, 40, 50 or 60 and buy it in a safe way. These are people who might never play here if it wouldn't be possible. Which will be good for the population and who is against that? It still makes or breaks a probate server.

#1 I don't mind.
#2 I'm fundamentally against. If you don't want to level your character don't play on a blizzlike realm. If you want to start with a character at level 60 go play a fun server. This shouldnt be a fun server.
This feature allows a whole bunch more stuff though, like
3) Allows people to spend real money to get an in-game advantage by, for example, buying 10 level 60's, teaching them tailoring and thereby being 10 times as good at transmuting mooncloth than anyone else.
4) Gives people who spend real money more options than people who dont. (Since I bought this priest I can choose to fight this boss as druid or a priest, where as before I was only able to fight it as a druid).

And this all happens without you noticing a single thing ingame and not causing any inbalance.

Not true. I will list a few noticable in-game things;

• Seemingly new people will spring from nowhere (that old pvper sold his account and the buyer namechanged making his character seem new).
• The value behind gear will drop (That dude is either a hardcore PvPer, or he spent 15 eur and bought someone else's character).
• The natural death of characters from people quitting will be greatly reduced
• It will be easier for people to control a niche market (since they can easily get 10, for example, mooncloth transmuters).

[Feenix is bad]
At least on kronos there is transparancy and freedom of speech. It is not so common in the private server scene. I haven't seen a single topic get locked here.

Remind me again what this has to do with selling characters?
Just because the Kronos team don't lock threads mentioning other server that doesn't mean we have to be in favor of everything they do.

 

[ironervousides]

Why do people think high pvp ranked/geared pve'rs will be selling their characters? Outside of one instance on ED, no pvpers sold their accounts. Very few geared pve'rs bought/sold their character. You're telling me some guy whose invested 40+ days into their character will sell it for 15 euro? Bullshit, the only characters being sold are going to be scrub shit geared blank faces.

 

[krutopatkin]

Why do people think high pvp ranked/geared pve'rs will be selling their characters? Outside of one instance on ED, no pvpers sold their accounts. Very few geared pve'rs bought/sold their character. You're telling me some guy whose invested 40+ days into their character will sell it for 15 euro? Bullshit, the only characters being sold are going to be scrub shit geared blank faces.

they are not even selling it for 15 euro they are selling it for fucking twinstar stars

con fucking grats you can now buy a murloc pet on the server you just quit

 

[Mobiu5]

If character Auction takes place on Kronos, eventually characters will be sold there. To stop your auction and prove how shamefull and gamebreaking it is. As a Vanilla fan for the past 10 years. I am willing to outbid/buy every character sold and personally delete them. People can keep stating what pleases their view point, but in the end Characters you did not level your self nor geared up or grindfested should never be available to others. Hence I Swear I will outbuy everyone and trash the characters personaly cause that is how gamebreaking and INSUTLING it is to a Oldschool Vanilla player that has dedicate that much time and effort into this game. This is a damn disgrace to wow fans, how can you leaglize this? You people and the project team should be ashamed!!!

HAHA. Or you could stay out of other people's business and play the game. Sorry, but you just sound like a purist trying to bring the world to heel. Live and let live my friend!

 

[CJB]

No offense to Hagson and JCB, but there is so much facepalm in some of their arguments that they make it very hard for me not te get nervous. They seem to be fundamentally against this feature and refuse to follow other peoples logic.

Okay afaik the characters will have a buyout price of twinstar points with the equivalent of about 15€ maximum. So the character can never be more expensive than this. To make it 100% clear the seller only gets donation points and not actual money. So you think people that quit will put up their "bad ass" characters in order to get a small amount of donater currency? While they can only buy a different lvl 60 or a murloc pet with it for a game they stopped playing?

If they want to get rid of it they will just sell their account on the black market for REAL money. If you think this doesn't happen on every private or retail server you are in for a surprise. Just google "buy emerald dream account" and you will be amazed.

The name's CJB, not JCB. And you say no offense and then say my opinions are facepalm? Dumb. How bout we just write our opinions and not be faggots about it, hm? Thanks. We can all have our own views - at least that's so in the country I reside. Anyway, let's get back to the actual subject ...

Do I think the character auctions will happen a lot? No, probably not; at least not at first. But we have two options that we're talking about here:

1. Condemn account selling for real cash (some will get by but it will be regulated the best it can be).
2. Condemn account selling for real cash (some will get by but it will be regulated the best it can be) and have a character auction system.

1. Less characters change ownership.
2. More characters change ownership.

My choice is clear; my OPINION. I encourage, even you, to voice yours. All of you reading this should register and voice your opinion as well, regardless of differing views and the possible presence of adversity.