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    TwinStar team

Character Auctions on Kronos

you seem to be taking video games pretty seriously

He's passionate man, leave him be. Chances are, he's probably not just passionate about this either, but with many things. We're just trying to get a variety of opinions circulating - you don't have to resort to personal attacks. You're better than that, my brother, come on. And this goes for everyone - even my temperamental ass.
 
Funny how you see the same Czech users trying to shut down pretty much every suggestion that gets brought up on this forum.

I am personally strongly against the auction idea, especially the fact that it's something that's being promoted by the server. Anyways, I see no point in arguing as it obviously leads nowhere around here. And to make things more toxic there is this whole concept of a "facepalm" button.
 
Funny how you see the same Czech users trying to shut down pretty much every suggestion that gets brought up on this forum.

feel free to explain why that's funny. this realm used to be marketed to czech players until this time around, and the server project itself is entirely czech. it only makes sense that established players are to be seen on the forums.


I am personally strongly against the auction idea, especially the fact that it's something that's being promoted by the server. Anyways, I see no point in arguing as it obviously leads nowhere around here. And to make things more toxic there is this whole concept of a "facepalm" button.
you can be against it, but it still won't change the fact that it makes for a more user friendly experience where people don't get scammed and the server project benefits from the money. it's making the best out of a bad situation.

but i really do agree the whole "facepalm" thing is juvenile and more often than not used when people are too lazy or simply can't motivate themselves with something that actually matters, words. it provides an alternate narrative with little to nothing of substance.
 
Funny how you see the same Czech users trying to shut down pretty much every suggestion

Because we know how it works, we have experience with the feature, and are familiar with how it affects the servers.. Its only a new thing for you, you have no idea how it works out and a bunch of people just run around in panic with their hands in the air
 
Twinstar should disallow the selling of characters and accounts, yes. Account lending is still fine IMO, so long as the owner remains the same. Paying someone to level your character should not be ok though.

Okay, then whatever :blink:
 
First of all I apologise if any of my facepalming came over as immature. I’m here for a healthy discussion. And sorry CJB for getting your name wrong, It was late in the evening.


Seemingly new people will spring from nowhere (that old pvper sold his account and the buyer namechanged making his character seem new).
The value behind gear will drop (That dude is either a hardcore PvPer, or he spent 15 eur and bought someone else's character).
The natural death of characters from people quitting will be greatly reduced

See how it completely ruins the feeling of achievement? It's like in retail where gear doesn't mean shit anymore cause any scrub can get it.
There are not more players with that certain gear or certain level, one character just changed owner. This only changes the feeling of achievement for the person who buys the character, but that's a decision that person has to make themselves. And other people have given arguments to why it is very unlikely someone that with a good character will put his character up for auction:
Why do people think high pvp ranked/geared pve'rs will be selling their characters? Outside of one instance on ED, no pvpers sold their accounts. Very few geared pve'rs bought/sold their character. You're telling me some guy whose invested 40+ days into their character will sell it for 15 euro? Bullshit, the only characters being sold are going to be scrub shit geared blank faces.
they are not even selling it for 15 euro they are selling it for fucking twinstar stars

con fucking grats you can now buy a murloc pet on the server you just quit

So the cost of spending a lot of gametime on their character really doesn't outweigh the benefit of having a little twinstar stars. They will just leave their character dormant and if they really want to get rid of it they will head to the black market for real money.



Yes, you dont gain anything exclusive, just like I said myself. You, the player, get more options though.
And it's not a choice between leveling and buying, you either level or you buy or you level and buy.
It will be easier for people to control a niche market (since they can easily get 10, for example, mooncloth transmuters).

And an important thing some seem to overlook is that this feature has supply and demand. The supply of characters in auction is limited, so not everyone is offered the option to buy one or even ten characters. If the demand for characters is much greater, the prices won’t rise because it is limited to 15€ maximum. Leaving an acute shortage of characters. So it’s a self-regulating system where the trading is limited.

You only control a niche market if you buy every mooncloth that comes on the auction house and artificially raise the price. You don’t need to craft any mooncloth for it. If anyone would have the opportunity to buy multiple characters (or someone that just levels a couple themselves) it would actually increase supply of mooncloth, thus lowering prices. Which is something the whole server benefits from. And the costs of buying those characters really don’t outweigh the benefits of so I doubt anyone will do this.


4) Gives people who spend real money more options than people who dont. (Since I bought this priest I can choose to fight this boss as druid or a priest, where as before I was only able to fight it as a druid).
Someone who doesn’t spend money isn’t limited to one character, he can level a different character just the same. Rendering the same option to choose between two characters completely free. Yes if they buy a character they save time, but again this option has a limited supply.


Twinstar should disallow the selling of characters and accounts, yes. Account lending is still fine IMO, so long as the owner remains the same. Paying someone to level your character should not be ok though.


You contradict yourself here. If you lend your character to someone else, that person earns gear or xp for you so changing your sense of achievement. I don’t see a difference with buying a character. If you have a friend willing to level your character or you pay a stranger to do it. Isn’t the result exactly the same? Isn’t it unfair to people who have these friends? Is it unfair that people spend money to support the server?
And as stated before any form of account trading and selling is forbidden on kronos, there is only the option to trade characters.



Remind me again what this has to do with selling characters?
Just because the Kronos team don't lock threads mentioning other server that doesn't mean we have to be in favor of everything they do.

Yes I understand, I was trying to make a point that money isn’t the main reason why the feature is implemented, but it actually has a a nice philosophy behind it. I used feenix as example to show how a server can earn tons of money in a way that does harm gameplay for everyone.





So I can understand why some people overestimate the effect of this feature. But every player who played on Kronos before that posts here says the auctions didn't affect them at all. So maybe it is not that terrible?
 
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From what I'm reading, these "no-sayers" seem to forgot one important detail. This "character market" is actualy runed by players, not Admins so it's not pay-to-win. The only thing is, that those who want to do it safely have a safe enviroment to do it. There is no intervention from server Admins. This market is dependent only on players.
 
I kind of get your outrage. The real world isn't fair so you at least want the pretend world to be. That's a nice thing to want. But try to think about it this way: if nobody ever told you that the character auction is there, would you even notice? Let's imagine this thread didn't exist, the ingame chat is only about LFG/trade/Mankrik's wife and your guildmates have more interesting things to discuss. The character auction is still there, doing its thing. Would you be aware of any of it?
I'm going to answer my own question and say that no, you most likely wouldn't notice. Is it really that important and that big of a deal when it's not even noticeable unless told about?
This. Post of the day.
 
Someone who doesn’t spend money isn’t limited to one character, he can level a different character just the same. Rendering the same option to choose between two characters completely free. Yes if they buy a character they save time, but again this option has a limited supply.

I keep having to repeat my self about this.
1. I have leveled a druid to level 60. I now have the options of playing a level 60 druid, or a level 1 of any class.
2. I have bought a level 60 priest. I now have the options of playing a level 60 druid, or a level 60 priest, or a level 1 of any class.

Had I not not bought that priest I would have had fewer options, is this really so hard to understand?
I'm not saying it's impossible to reach state 2 without paying, it's just harder and more time-consuming, time you could spend grinding gear or consumables or something else entirely.
The person not buying has to spend that time leveling the priest if he wants the same options, putting im at a disadvantage.


Though I don't agree with what you say you raise some fair points though, which is more than can be said for most posters here, who just mindlessly facepalm. :smile:





From what I'm reading, these "no-sayers" seem to forgot one important detail. This "character market" is actualy runed by players, not Admins so it's not pay-to-win.

This logic is incredibly flawed. "It's run by players not admins, and therefore not pay-to-win".
So goldselling is not pay to win then?
 
Again I ask you, where does that priest come from exactly? Somebody trying to get rid of excess chars?
You act like you run into a store and simply buy something.
 
This logic is incredibly flawed. "It's run by players not admins, and therefore not pay-to-win".
So goldselling is not pay to win then?
Of course it is. You have to buy gold for money and someone earns that money. The gold is either generated by farming/hacking or, when you are playing on a really corrputed server, by the server administration. You earn nothing when you sell a character, just some virtual coins, and all you can do with them is buy another character. It's not like you can pay with twinstar coins on ebay. See the difference? There is no incentive to sell characters on twinstars, the only reason to do so is the whish to play another class or to change faction.
Again, it's just a character swapping system.
 
A player levels up a shaman, gets sulfuras after many months of playing, decides that they're bored with the character and throwing down totems, and decides to hand the account off to a friend in the guild he's in. The guildmate says "sweet!" and hands off his account password and Email account info for the warrior account that he has no plans to keep playing. The first player is happy because he'd much rather raid as a warrior, and the guildmate is happy because the sulfuras wasn't wasted and he really wanted to play a shaman.

The above kind of activity has been going on since Ultima Online and Everquest, and it's not going to miraculously come to a halt just because the Twinstar staff says "we don't allow account sales or trading". You know it, they know it, end of conversation.

The same thing goes for black market sales of accounts. When the server launches and becomes popular (and it will), there will be a market for gold and characters which no one's going to shut down.

Twinstar's move with handling the auction of characters provides 3 things.

1) A player has a new choice of obtaining a character through a means that won't be sabotaged with a scam.
2) Twinstar gets a profit by offering this service of an assured character transfer to a new owner.
3) The above two points will tamper with the black market price of character accounts in driving their margins down due to a more certain, less expensive form of competition being a part of the mix.

I'm reading the arguments against the auctions and if we lived in a perfect world where no player would ever trade an account with a guildmate, and no small groups would form to make a profit in selling gold and toons from private servers - then sure. The decision Twinstar is making with this would be harder to justify. Possibly.

Let me know where this perfect world exists and how I can book a flight to take my vacation there.
 
I'm reading the arguments against the auctions and if we lived in a perfect world where no player would ever trade an account with a guildmate, and no small groups would form to make a profit in selling gold and toons from private servers - then sure. The decision Twinstar is making with this would be harder to justify. Possibly.

Actually, the argument against character auctions does not need a perfect world. You do not legalize an action just because people are going to do said action anyways. You legalize an action because said action is determined to be no longer wrong.

Hagson is arguing that the character auctions is wrong because it is pay-to-win. Indeed, he is right that the action is pay-to-win. In a game where part of the success is even reaching endgame, paying a certain amount of real cash to reach that endgame quicker qualifies to be pay-to-win. On top of that, you have a chance on receiving free achievements (vanilla sense, not modern-wow sense) with that character.

Is he right that this pay-to-win action is wrong? No definitive answer. I'm on the side that it will benefit the server for the reasons you listed Skosh.

But please do not advertise this service as blizzlike! I have yet to see Blizzard offer character auctions.
 
omg such theorycrafting bullshittery - how you guys all know this even serv not even released and no one could sell or buy any char at all ?
men stop this bullshitting around because you experts dont have resource of informations.
 
Hey all, I'm a new player looking to buy a character on kronos wow.

I want to be 100% certain that the seller won't scam me and petition GMs to get his info reset due to a "hack".

Will I use the twin star service or the unregulated one with high chance of scamming?

Hey, I'm a rank14 warrior with DEoI, I think I'll sell my account for the equivalent of a weeks worth of welfare (lol) on the "black market" since I don't want any kronos stars or whatever.

Wait, are all the buyers using the secured service to transfer characters? Guess I'll just keep my character or give it to a guildy for free



I swear this forums population would flip a shit if it was discovered that the sleeping peons quest gave 20 more exp than was intended
 
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omg such theorycrafting bullshittery - how you guys all know this even serv not even released and no one could sell or buy any char at all ?
men stop this bullshitting around because you experts dont have resource of informations.

It's not theorycrafting. The feature was also available in previous kronos launches.
 
*cough* http://www.wowwiki.com/Boost_to_level_90 *cough*

PS: I don't think there was a word about CAH being blizzlike, was there?

True, i forgot about Blizzard offering that. Thank god i quit before this shit came out.

And it's not about TwinStar labeling the service as 'blizzlike'.

I swear this forums population would flip a shit if it was discovered that the sleeping peons quest gave 20 more exp than was intended

It's about certain forumgoers hating anything that adheres to a very strict definition of 'blizzlike'. Unless TwinStar OKs it, of course.
 
I have now read the whole thread. The people nitpicking, why do you even wake up in the morning?

Get over yourselves. Kronos is the best vanilla server in the scene. Deal with it.

:yinyang:

PS: Lighten up.​
 
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I have now read the whole thread. The people nitpicking, why do you even wake up in the morning?

Get over yourselves. Kronos is the best vanilla server in the scene. Deal with it.

:yinyang:

PS: Lighten up.​

must agree, reality check is in order
 
Im against buying a 60 and any form of account trading, but people will do it on the black market anyway. THhe only negative aspect of the char auction is promoting it and people getting butthurt over it.

I dont think many people will just up and sell there character for stars. If i quit the server id just give my acc to a guildy or just let it rot... Maybe go for a big sell if it was geared, but you cant do that on kronos. I think this will just be a way of swapping chars for ppl... Only annoying thing i can imagine is WTT geared lock for rogue in trade chat.
 
I'm liking the new names in here guys, let's keep this shit rolling --

Do you think the sketchy-ness of the black market is regulation enough?

Do you think the character auction is useful and not game breaking? Do you think it is useful AND game breaking?

Do you think there is no problem with such a function?

What do you all think? Let us know! Register up and post your opinion, everyone.

[On a side note, I want to say thank you to the administrators giving their opinion and further explaining the Character Auction Function -- with any thread, seeing your involvement does more for the community than you probably think - we may disagree on this topic, but my respect for yall is ever present.]

[On another post script: I know there are ten pages on this thread and it's growing but it is worth it, for everyone, to take the time and go over those pages to read the differing opinions, even if it seems like a task!]
 
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There needs to be a thread about how "blizzlike" this server is, and why it's okay that it isn't. Bringing all of those arguments into this thread is ridiculous.

That being said, there are things that everyone needs to realize.

1. People will sell, trade, and give away accounts on private servers. It Will Happen.
2. Even with the auction system in place, people will probably still do all of the above on a black market.

Of course it isn't Blizzlike for them to create a market for this to happen, Blizzard gains nothing from a market like that, if anything they lose subscription time from those who would otherwise have to start from scratch. But Twinstar isn't Blizzard, so stop treating them like they are, or they should be.

You are all playing on what is essentially an illegal server. Why then is it so hard to accept character auctions? What is the worst character that could be auctioned off? A tank in full BiS with a TF? If someone is going to be willing to auction that character off don't you think they would be able to sell it anyway? How does having that process be a part of the server make any difference at all? Any character that would be game breaking if it were to change hands is going to be easy to sell.

You're all arguing about whether something should be easier or harder to do, and whether Twinstar should be able to try to regulate it, and use it to their slight advantage, or gain nothing at all. If you are arguing against character auctions through Twinstar you are really just arguing against that. If anything, their market and the way it is set up may deter people from doing it. Or just make them use the black market anyway.

The black market will still exist. This just opens up the option for a way to buy/sell/trade accounts that benefits the server slightly.
 
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