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    TwinStar team

Concerned about fast Alterac Valleys

G

Ghostly

New Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Alterac Valley is undoubtedly the most complex and interesting battleground to exist in WoW. There are numerous ways to gain advantage, numerous ways to strike the enemy, numerous ways to win. I don't doubt Kronos developers' ability to script it correctly and make it function the way its supposed to, I'm sure that when AV gets implemented, we all will be able to fight there they way its meant to be.

But what concerns me is not that players will be unable to call cavalry charges or dominate another faction on Field of Strife with the help of an Elemental Lord. What worries me is that those things will not be used most of the time. As you know, absolute majority of AV's on other private servers nowadays happen extremely fast. It is no longer a fight between two huge groups, it's a race to kill other faction's general. It happens because its simply unbeneficial to wage long AV's, both parties benefit from quicker matches and quicker wins/losses. During my stay on ED, I've had AV's in which I didn't even meet any of the other faction's players. Both sides just rushed to other side's base. The longest Alterac Valley battle I've saw there lasted 2-3 hours. And just to remember how many times were people asked to "stop defending because we should just lose and try again next time"... That's not how this battleground is supposed to work.

I know that one can't just tell other players to stop choosing most effecient way to do things. But admit it, long and bloody battles all across the zone are much more appealing than PvE rushes. How can the game provide an authenic Vanilla WoW experience if AV's last mere minutes?

So my suggestion is the following: Let there be additional rewards for long AV's. Some kind of a honor bonus that outweighs benefits of quick wins. I know that this is by no means Blizzlike. If anybody else has other suggestions of how to improve the AV experience, I'd like to hear it out. I know that I'm not the only one who's bothered by this problem.
 
"stop defending because we should just lose and try again next time"
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i also played on ED's AV's and saw these kind of messages.

why would anyone want to have it fast honor/rep in AV?
well its obviously because AV only opens on Bonus weekend which i cant remember every 2 week or 3? for 2-3 days.

and it is obvious that people want to get honor/rep fast per round because its just opened 2-3 days every 2-3 weeks.

why is AV only open every 2-3 weeks for 2-3 days?
1. because the honor farmer are playing the battleground which gives most honor, which is AV on AV bonus weekend.
2. because you can only sign up for 1 battleground. and you know that WSG is played only when its not bonus weekend. since the honor farmers play WSG, they are mainly pushing only that battleground and every single player just signs up for WSG because it is open.
(should be able to sign up for 3 battlegrounds at same time so that you can choose which battleground to join when every battleground invites you. which is blizzlike)

With beeing able to sign up for 3 battlegrounds, the honor farmers wont be able to push 1 bg, because people will get annoyed from beeing ganked all the time in WSG and might try AB/AV.
And as the population grows the amount of battlegrounds will increase, doesnt matter which one.

For ED you need an organized group who sign up for AV or AB when its not bonus weekend, because people alreadey got used to WSG and think its normal to have WSG everyday except the bonus weekend.

Edit: Without the pushing in AV from honor farmers, there wont be that much influence to win it fast. because all the rankers will be in WSG because its faster. With Multiqueue eveyrone will go to the battleground they wanna play and AV will become probably the old AV with all the low levels and zergs. but i cant tell any facts because i didnt play vanilla wow, only started in TBC.

Edit2: Multiqueue is disabled on ED. atleast from what i know from the past.

did i help you?


Edit3: I even think its going to be hard to have a premade for WSG and run it all day long since solo players will avoid them and from what i experienced on Warsong and ED, premades were avoiding each other too:clap: which means more balanced battlegrounds with good players on both sides playing serious for their ranks on Kronos.
 
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I see your point but If I've got a day off, no errands to run. Nothing to do at all. I've got no WoW chores to do, like farming mats or whatever for next raid night. I would quite happily spend 8 hours online in one AV. It has that sense of large scale, shouldn't be over in a few minutes, it's grand, it's war.

However if I only have 2 or 3 hours and want to have a go in AV I don't want people to be half arsed trying, just milling about the field of strife because then they will get bonus honor for it lasting longer. Not being able to see it through to the end. I understand if I limit my play time I'm no always going to be able to see every one through to the end but that is because of the BG not the incentive to wait it out.
 
i loved to play alterac valley in burning crusade version and lich king version. i stoped at level 60 and played a lot and since on the realmpool i played it ended when cataclysm came out and finished us at level 60. then i was looking for oppurtunties to play AV again but since then i couldnt find that! i just cant imagine how its going to be on Kronos.
 
You can't turn back the wheels of time entirely.
First and foremost the players changed and not the game.
Kronos will try to deliver an AV as close to retrail as possible. The thing is how the acceptance of the playerbase will look like. 3days games? I don't think you will see this here. Its all about the epics in the end. Unfortunately this means that faster ending alteracs are more rewarding. By now, the player realised that.
 
I agree completely with Lharts, unfortunately (or fortunately whichever way you look at it) most players want faster AV's so they can buy their epics as fast as possible.

Ghostly said:
But admit it, long and bloody battles all across the zone are much more appealing than PvE rushes.
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That's not what most players think, sorry.
 
Breda said:
Without the pushing in AV from honor farmers, there wont be that much influence to win it fast.
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That would be great, of course, but even usual players who have no desire to push for R14 are concerned about efficiency now. Everybody wants their epics/cheap mount, after all. And also, at this point most players are used to regarding faster AV's as better AV's, from what I saw at least.

Lharts said:
You can't turn back the wheels of time entirely.
First and foremost the players changed and not the game.
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Sadly, this is true. People will pick the most efficient way to do battle. But would it be impossible for a server to encourage more fun, longer battles?

Cornholi said:
That's not what most players think, sorry.
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From my experience it's quite the opposite, really. Many players back on ED hated AV for how "PvE" it was. As I mentioned in OP, even battles where players of opposing factions literally didn't meet could happen on ED. People usually come to battlegrounds to fight enemy players, not NPCs. And in fast battles, there isn't much happening besides NPC killing.
 
I think, that awesome idea would be making another version of AV (if possible), where faction boss will spawn after some time, or after destroing all bunkers. But this would be separate to the normal AV, so you can chose what you want.
 
Chill guys. With a fixed AV the games will already be alot longer.
Rushing through to the enemy boss is almost impossible then.
 
Well, but tactic - Go for towers/bunkers, ignore the enemy and then just wait till it's destroyed and kill the boss is still doable and players will do it.
 
Breda said:
Edit2: Multiqueue is disabled on ED. atleast from what i know from the past.
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Multiqueue was enabled for a few weeks after AV/AB release, and it was nothing but empty battlegrounds. People would join, see the opposing team (either a premade or just "too good"), and join the next battleground that popped. That's why they disabled it.
 
Well they enabled Multiqueue on ED a few months ago and they disabled it after 2 days, because it was bugged and battlegrounds couldnt get worked. People were not able to join even the numbers were like 20/20 in the queue for AV and when i queued AV and it poped, only 4 alliance players were inside with 0 horde.

I think they broke that and dont know how to fix it, so RIP Multiqueue on Feenix.
 
Breda said:
Well they enabled Multiqueue on ED a few months ago and they disabled it after 2 days, because it was bugged and battlegrounds couldnt get worked. People were not able to join even the numbers were like 20/20 in the queue for AV and when i queued AV and it poped, only 4 alliance players were inside with 0 horde.

I think they broke that and dont know how to fix it, so RIP Multiqueue on Feenix.
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It depends on the population, and more spesificly, the number of people that are queing BGs. If they are few, Yes - there will be empty BGs. If they are alot, No - The ones that leave for another BG will get replaced by other people that queued after them.
 
In Patch 1.11, the number of NPCs was severely reduced. On some servers, this has led to a strategy that is usually called "the race". In this strategy, both sides bypass the main enemy group and rush the graveyard nearest the enemy base, quickly clear the two bunkers in the base, pull the Marshalls, and then pull the General. Each side may also kill the opposing captain and claim a mine or easy Graveyard "on the way", but the goal is still to "rush the General" without directly engaging players of the opposing faction. This leads to a faster paced game which can be easily won or easily lost. The safest route is to leave some defenders to at least slow the opposing teams attack, but to still maintain an overpowering offense; to give up some ground, but not too much.

I don't think re-adding more npc's will make much difference, if players don't want to fight eachother making it a bit more of a pve instance won't change that.
 
Last time i checked. Horde needs to defend or they have a much less change of winning. (Winning a Rush Race)

Defending Horde = Long Game
Tho i cant wait untill we summon that big stone dude or Alliance summons that Tree(?).
2-3 Hour AV can be enjoyable. if you have time that is.
 
And in the vanilla honor system, it's not big difference if you rush boss or if you have long game... Long game is maybe even better.
 
50/50 right. the first HK gives 100% honor, the 5. or 6. gives you 2-3 honor. if you have a long alterac u will get many HK's but not that much honor.

i want a zerg av like back in days, blood and shard farming, summoning the icelord, etc etc etc


i remember the first alterac valley match on another private server with many other ppl from here ;) its just awesome.


peace
 
Reduce bonus honor gained from finishing a BG, and increase honor gained from honorable kills in BGs.
To the point where it's more viable to farm kills rather than finishing the BG as fast as possible to acquire the bonus honor.

And imo, set AV to be Call to Arms permanently.
 
In a fixed AV environment the games won't finish fast.
btw, Horde has an easier times rushing over since they spawn a little closer to the alliance base then alliance to horde. On a sidenote, alliance has the easier time defending since their base can only be reached (if you don't know some walljumps that is) by crossing the bridge while horde base us accessible through many spots by jumping over the fence.
 
Insignia said:
Reduce bonus honor gained from finishing a BG, and increase honor gained from honorable kills in BGs.
To the point where it's more viable to farm kills rather than finishing the BG as fast as possible to acquire the bonus honor.

And imo, set AV to be Call to Arms permanently.
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It doesn't work with private servers population. One turtle in AV wipes out the vast majority of 40 enemy players honor values for the entire day. That means after about 1 hour, you'll only be getting honor from the bonus awarded at the end.

There is never a point where murdering people in BGs is more effective than the bonus honor unless there is a significant population to support constant rotation of individuals.
 
you should not able to pull general without boss :)
so is either clear bunker/tower or tank them togher with boss
 
If players want rush they will, if they don't, they wont. AV epic battles are over. Vanilla is over. Av, I feel, is just one of those things lost to time.
 
chanan12 said:
If players want rush they will, if they don't, they wont. AV epic battles are over. Vanilla is over. Av, I feel, is just one of those things lost to time.
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Kronos will be different, because things getting fixed. and those things will influence AV. i think on kronos there will be like 40% below level 59 in AV. now beat the boss with those :D. but ofc im not sure, we need to wait and see.
 
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