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    TwinStar team

Current Pvp Situation and possible Solutions

Hi,

I can understand that horde is bored, but I think each of the suggested solutions won't improve the situation at all.
We just can make some advertisment to make sure fresh in pvp interessted ppl dont chose horde aswell and make the situation even worse. Some ppl said there are allready pvpers on their way to 60 on alli side - lets hope they hurry and are enough to change the situation.
(You might could have known that horde has allways the higher pvp population - this is not a kronos problem)

greetings
Brutus
 
With more pvpers on ally side thing will be more balanced , i see a lot of new guy levelling on ally for pvp.
Maybe level an ally alt in downtime

you are just scared that you have to fight alone and actually fight for your honor and rank.

I appreciate the hordes situation and everything but from what I'm hearing from a few horde players and other alliance pvpers, there are cliques within the horde pvp community. That's fine (perfectly normal, in fact) and everything but I just don't understand why you cannot band together and make a solid premade? PuGs vs Premades will always happen; it's just a fact of life in vanilla pvp.

The harsh truth is that the average horde pvper is superior to the average alliance pvper right now, so if you're losing BGs all the time then it's really on you to fix it. Team up. You cannot seriously try to fool anyone into thinking that you cannot get 10/15 players into a raid?

This seems to be more a failing of the hordes social skills than the systems in place, which is why I feel the developers should take no further action.

/Devil's advocate



Premades are frustating and decreasing the population drastically, limitizing the maximum amount of people for battlegrounds by fu***ing their heads up and you still dont want this to be changed? Do you even realize this is decreasing and limitizing even the entire population? You know why this is? It is because there is nothing else to do in the game for people like me who doesnt wanna raid and when premades are limitzing battlegrounds, whats left to do? I already quit playing, sometimes playing my second char.
This wasnt like on retail. i had the full allowance to do what i want and nobody cared, maybe 1 person after hours of playing with total fun the way i want. There is no rule how to act in battlegrounds, this has occured on private vanilla servers because of broken system where the important people doesnt seem to care or it is beeing ignored for their own benefits.


You dont like it when suddenly tommorow nobody can queue as a raid and suddenly the multi-queue is working as intended without modification? Is it because you premades from F**e'ix have wrong perspective in this and spreading it here while gathering in majority? I cant believe we have to fight for this.

Battlegrounds doesnt require "social skills" to join it and play the way you want it.
If you wanna say that the playerbase of battleground participants are to low and thats why you need to group up, then you are wrong.
First of all, again to join it only requires you to queue up for it and you can do it solo. It simply doesnt require group queue. Group queue is a possibility for people who wants to play together not for people who just wanna play it alone in their own way.
Second, you dont have to find people first in order to play battlegrounds. Everyone is on his own and can do whatever he wants. Not everyone wants to be in a group or planning and organizing premades.
third, premades are not a feature, there is no reason to hold back and say "Hey, what about us?? We want to play too!!!" Well you can still go in teamspeak and count down from 3 to 1 and queue at the same time to be close to each other in the queue.

I dont get the reason why this is not taking in consederation. Are premades some kind of ViP people who we have to pay respect?
These 2 changes do only have positive effects on the amount of battlegrounds, healthier community, general population increase and a retail vanilla like experience instead of this Fe`n*x experience.

If this is not been taking in consederation then its already on favorism level. It is allowed to say that Kronos favors premades. Everything beeing said, there is nothing more to add.

Premade members are currently worried about this and thats why the counterpart is full of premade members who are against these changes and trying to help with an alternative. There is no alternative.
And they are mostlikely afraid they wont rank up that fast without their premade. But sorry you are not the center of the universe. The 2 changes are for the good of all players who ever want to try out battlegrounds.
 
Hi,

I really doubt that those 2 changes would help:

Mixing up premades (5 ppl) with Randoms (5 ppl) for WSG - as u allready noticed Alliance have much more unexpierienced pvpers - would most of the time end with a win for the horde because its impossible to carry 50% of the BG. ---> even premades dont que anymore OR just que fast (3..2..1) after the other to get in together. Nothing would change.

And even if the system would let entering ppl one by one - to avoid an unequal number of players - this would probably end with +1 for horde (because both factions will get a bg popup - except the system starts with ally and if he accept - they give horde an invite). All in all everybody would appreciate a clever system which trys to keep the number of players equal. ATM it feels very blizzlike (retail-servers had a higher pvp population on alliance imo). I lack of programming/scripting skills to know how much effort it would be to optimize it if it's even possible (seems to be a lot of more server enquiries - especcially if there are more and different BGs open).

Like i said in my first post, in my opinion the most promising improvement would be if new players (pvpers) chose alliance and balance the numbers in total.


Greetings
Brutus
 
Match pug vs pug at +0/-0 team difference will help for sure
 
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give time for more people to get to 60 and it will be fine.
just in the meantime tell your pvp friends to roll alliance.
free faction tranfers might be something to consider (i wish i could transfer my horde toon but since that does not seem possible atm i started leveling on alliance slowly)
av release will also help since the gear rewards are good for pve as well so it will lure more people.
 
Not counting the premade's there are no queue's popping..and when they do, its over in 5 mins.

This and mainly the mentality of some players is killing the PvP scene.

Rape pug's all day, when horde does get tired of it and organize..they stop queueing.

Wait for 5 hrs in a premade..guess what? No queue.

This has become an alliance dictated PvP server, not because of the population but because you are :

1 : Shitting on players that join, and arnt in ur premade/ Or have gear up ur standards

2 : You actively tell people, not to queue for bg's..so your premade wouldnt lose standing at any cost.

I understand you want to get ur rank, and you dont want to play with poor geared ppl.

However, alliance has the same amount off players as horde does (roughly) and dont think only alliance has bad ones.

We have to deal with it, and so should u.

Limit group queue's to 5 ppl, so more ppl can actually play and have fun in what they are doin.

The way this is goin, i honestly dont see how it wont kill the server..hoping the dev's will read the forumposts and think stuff really trough because there will be an aftermath.

Looking forward for a more active pvp scene, and not this BS that has been goin on...before you start to lose more people.
 
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Who is telling people not to queue? I haven't seen that, but if they are then yeah that's bad.

If I solo queue and get crushed a couple times in a row you bet I'm not going to queue again, especially if said stomps were aided by horde outnumbering 5v6, 6v7, etc. It's not fun getting crushed when you feel like you can't do anything about it, and I wouldn't blame anyone who stopped queueing for that reason.
 
Names dont matter, the fact is..that its happening.

And you get stomped by 6 pugs or 7 against 6 of urs..how is this not fair? that 1 player doesnt make alot off difference.

Like we already stated, horde is more active in queuing so yes..youll get outnumbered, if not enough alliance sign up. If more alliance queued, you wouldnt meet unbalanced numbers.
 
Yes, and its a bigger difference from preformed + voicecomms, then 1 player in a pug BG.

If that 1 player, makes or breaks ur team..u would be doin something wrong and thats why you lost.

Not because u had 1 player less.
 
I'm talking about 6v7 pug vs pug.. there is no voicecom, what are you talking about?

It's this kinda stuff that makes me not feel bad at all for you. Roll alliance or quit, who cares.
 
No actual reply to everything I said before? k

You guys say there will be a reckoning- bring it on. I've changed my mind, I hope all horde quit pvp even if it means I can't. I'm a PvE carebear anyway.
 
I do PvP a lot. There isn't much else to do on non-raid days. But I wouldn't miss it if it were gone.

e: I'm here for the schadenfreude now. I came into this thread thinking OP had a point, now I just think you deserve every bad thing that happens to you.
 
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Really the best fix for this is more people rolling on Kronos with the intent to PvP alliance-side.

It's just a fact of vanilla that WOTF is popular, and in general the horde is popular for PvPers, so that's why you're where you are at, and it's a big reason why we (alliance) are where we're at.

Nothing short of simply more people can fix this because you can't "force" people to do anything. If they wanna queue once and then don't feel like queuein' again if they lose, that's their choice. The solution is to simply buffer that person with more people who will queue in his stead.

The server needs more 60s. That's that.
 
We have the same amounts of 60's, so population is hardly the problem.

@skyrunner : I was comparing the difference between premade's and pugs.

In terms of fairness one outshine's the other by a mile.

Ur goin on about having 1 player less, while there's 6 ppl in there..carrying a flag takes 1 with 5 assisting.

If u happen to fail at that, dont blame the 1 player less..because it hardly has any impact.
 
If we were a 6 man premade facing 7 horde pugs and we lost, I agree, we would have no one but ourselves to blame. But nobody is talking about this hypothetical scenario. 6 alliance pugs vs 7 horde pugs.. gee, I wonder who wins? If it's such an inconsequential thing how about you try being on the other end sometime? Suddenly I think you'll find that one person matters quite a lot. It's hilarious that you complain about unfairness on one side but when it's your side benefiting oh no, it's not a big deal.

We have close to the same amount of 60s but tons of our 60s have no intention of ever pvping, so in terms of PvP population you definitely have far, far more. It has always been this way. I'm surprised that people are still surprised by this fact.
 
We have close to the same amount of 60s but tons of our 60s have no intention of ever pvping, so in terms of PvP population you definitely have far, far more. It has always been this way. I'm surprised that people are still surprised by this fact.

Are we talking about private servers? And no I'm not surprised, but I didn't think it would be THIS bad.

Tbh I can't believe there isn't like Coral or some other guild starting a premade with instant queues on ally side.
 
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The server needs more 60s. That's that.

You will say the same sentence everytime because you dont get it.

Imagine there was a factor that is making people quit pvp. thats what you cant seem to see, please realize people dont want to play warsong gulch all the time. Arathi basin doesnt even come into question, because it will only pop up via premade and they will take control over it and tell you what to do. A person who wants to play the way he wants is not allowed to do that in this case.

Stop saying population is low for having not enough battlegrounds. there are 2 issues/problems which causes people to stop playing. people want to ignore or doesnt want to realize these issues, especcialy you Zipzo.

Just imagine, how was retail? Multiple queues were possible and there were mostly random/pug battlegrounds and only 1-2 premades on both sides running. You could hope to not face the premade when you play WSG. You cold just queue arathi basin or alterac valley but with the problem of multiple queue system AB is not possible and i already described why AB doesnt pop by chance from randoms/pugs. If you dont dare to read i will explain again.

Now compare this to Kronos' situation.

-Frustation of playing Warsong Gulch all the time. (stop comparing this with F*en*x, they have had their broken Multi-queue for many years and people just took it as it is and claim it to be blizzlike/normal(The part where you lose the queue when you enter warsong gulch)
-Frustation of seeing the same people all the time.


]but tons of our 60s have no intention of ever pvping

Maybe put yourself into their position and think why they would not play. Maybe they already tried a few battlegrounds and didnt like it. Ask them why they dont play and ask them whats the reason. I already know it, but just to help you realize whats the problem.
 
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You will say the same sentence everytime because you dont get it.

Imagine there was a factor that is making people quit pvp. thats what you cant seem to see, please realize people dont want to play warsong gulch all the time. Arathi basin doesnt even come into question, because it will only pop up via premade and they will take control over it and tell you what to do. A person who wants to play the way he wants is not allowed to do that in this case.

Stop saying population is low for having not enough battlegrounds. there are 2 issues/problems which causes people to stop playing. people want to ignore or doesnt want to realize these issues, especcialy you Zipzo.

Just imagine, how was retail? Multiple queues were possible and there were mostly random/pug battlegrounds and only 1-2 premades on both sides running. You could hope to not face the premade when you play WSG. You cold just queue arathi basin or alterac valley but with the problem of multiple queue system AB is not possible and i already described why AB doesnt pop by chance from randoms/pugs. If you dont dare to read i will explain again.

Now compare this to Kronos' situation.

-Frustation of playing Warsong Gulch all the time. (stop comparing this with F*en*x, they have had their broken Multi-queue for many years and people just took it as it is and claim it to be blizzlike/normal(The part where you lose the queue when you enter warsong gulch)
-Frustation of seeing the same people all the time.

I see different horde all the time, I can't imagine this is a factor when it comes to whether an alliance wants to queue or not.

But I do remember multi-queue being a thing so it should stand to reason it should be a thing here too.
 
You will say the same sentence everytime because you dont get it.

Imagine there was a factor that is making people quit pvp. thats what you cant seem to see, please realize people dont want to play warsong gulch all the time. Arathi basin doesnt even come into question, because it will only pop up via premade and they will take control over it and tell you what to do. A person who wants to play the way he wants is not allowed to do that in this case.

Stop saying population is low for having not enough battlegrounds. there are 2 issues/problems which causes people to stop playing. people want to ignore or doesnt want to realize these issues, especcialy you Zipzo.

This isn't about the total population of the server, it's about the population of 60s, of which the figure can be called relatively quite low in relation to the average level overall of the realm. There just isn't enough 60s who enjoy PvPing. Plain and simple. You can't force people to like PvP. The only way to "fix" this issue is to throw more people at it (Kronos) and hope stuff sticks (people who like PvP seeing it through to 60).


Maybe put yourself into their position and think why they would not play. Maybe they already tried a few battlegrounds and didnt like it. Ask them why they dont play and ask them whats the reason. I already know it, but just to help you realize whats the problem.

It's quite possible people aren't playing simply because they don't care for PvP. It's not exactly shocking, considering vanilla was probably the worst of the expansions when it came to PvP balance.
 
Hello,

It seems that horde just dont want to accept the facts: The alliance pvp population is low, most of them are interessted in PvE and its summer too, Horde has many more players and many more tryhards in their rows than we have (While alliance mainly have pvp interessted melees (beside of some ppl of Synced or Irae), horde has a lot of casters - why do you think melee groups want to face WSG against 8 Undeads - 5 of them Frostmages and 40% on horde side are Engineers)

Even if u split up the maximal premade number down to 5.. randoms wont que if the 5-man-premade dont que.
Place a lvl 1 character at the battlemaster and u figure out yourself how many pvp interessted alliances will come to que...

If there is a way to fix the problem i appreciate it too, i also dont want to premade all the time but there is no other chance to win. Breaking up with the premade system will not help anyway - only the effort we (im talking talking from the PoV of our premade, there are other pvpers too which are able to form an own and also be successfull) have to win would raise (and it wont be possible to win). Why should we take this effort just to push ppl higher than our own guildmates? Just becaues you are bored, and not able to think before you create a character? No, Thank you.

If you want to change something make sure the upcomming PvPers lvl their char on alliance side (thats what YOU can do instead of complaining about obvious things and crying for devs).

That was a little bit harsh maybe, sorry for that. I also would prefer a happy horde without these problems(I also dont want you to quit) but I dont want to take the effort because you chose the wrong faction (I also would like to play horde but I didnt because I knew this situation could happen). It's not that we dont want to accept your arguments, but i think you are totally wrong and don't accept ours because you are angry rooted in current situation.

Greetings
Brutus
 
Hello,

It seems that horde just dont want to accept the facts.....

Greetings
Brutus

Noone is blaming you for anything, this thread was simply a suggestion like you said yourself,
to give future pvp'ers an inside of how the current situation is.

I would've done the exact same thing in your shoes, and hopefully the team will address this as something that needs to be looked upon, it is hurting the server, there's no denying that.

This thread was made for suggestions not to bash eachother.
 
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