Dungeon Experience

[Cr0wL0ck]

While it is almost certain by now that the majority want's 1x experience rate judging by this poll, it is still uncertain regarding if the experience rate should be different within dungeon's since it is discussed within multiple threads so here is a poll just for dungeon and global rates.

Do you want 1x rate Global or 1x world & 2x dungeon ?

please make a choice and discuss below :smile:

1 person = 100xp
2 people = 50xp each.
3 people = ~39xp each.
4 people = ~33xp each.
5 people = ~28xp each.

considering you are running a normal 5 man group you all gain 28 experience per kill, even if you doubled this it wouldn't equal what a single player would earn although you can kill faster you will need to take breaks occasionally in order not to be wiped by running out of mana etc.

even if it was an elite then it would grant double xp for single player as well so adding that to calculations would change nothing, and they can be found anywhere not just in dungeons.

single player
world = 100 xp
dungeon = 200 xp

5 man dungeon group
1x exp = 28 xp each
2x exp = 56 xp each

5 man world group
1x exp = 28 xp each

source: wowwiki 2006 info

 

[Walgrave]

My fear lies with the world population dwindling, if instance grind parties become more efficient than questing.

 

[Lliane]

If it's going to be x1 I'd prefer global x1.
Different Exp. Ratings in Dungeons would change the feeling.
If It'd be x1-x2 for example, people could choose to go x1 while questing and x2 while in a dungeon, but I wouldn't implement it as a rule since it would benefit groups over solo-players which seems kind of unfair.

 

[Cr0wL0ck]

My fear lies with the world population dwindling, if instance grind parties become more efficient than questing.

Well for starters you gotta remember that experience is reduced for each member in the group and then later increased slightly so it wouldn't beat world xp or solo farming anyways, killing something in appropriate level within an instance with full group hardly gives you 1/3 of the experience you would have gained on your own which is the reason most farm or quest from 1-60 and only do the fast dungeons fast if they got quests for them so doubling the experience wouldn't make all from world go into instances unless you make dungeons give 5-10x experience and world 1 etc. :wink:

 

[Riplash]

However it was in Vanilla. That's how I'd like it

 

[Guessilldps]

I think 1x world 2x dungeon is a great idea. Hope it'll be implemented at some point. I really doubt it would ruin the blizzlike feeling nor scare anyone away, but only make the leveling experience feel slightly smoother. I think people are being a bit too sceptical about it. I enjoy the long road to lvl 60 as well, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved a bit.

 

[Lemon124]

1.6x for world and 2x for dungeons, i wouldn't really mind that, if your going to give dungeons a boost why not give the more dull part of the game a boost?

 

[Rerun]

1x Global.
Stop messing with MY PERFECT BLIZZLIKE PRIVATE SERVER :crying:


Edit: Can someone explain to me why this is even an issue?
Was there a problem in retail with this? I think not, why would it be a problem here?
If we have a good population, and a semi-continous stream of newcomers, this should not be changed and stay just like it was.

 

[Twigsy]

I'm perfectly content with 1x all the time.

 

[Breda]

i also know that when i was in a dungeon, i got very good experience. i went to dungeons specificly for exp when i got bored of leveling. i remember this because i went often to dungeons.

maybe because of this:

• Elite mobs will give more experience than similar non-elite mobs.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Elite_creature


and there are many elite mobs in dungeons.

Edit: Mobs that are flagged as elite will give twice the amount of experience as a normal mob for the same level.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mob_XPj



WoWwiki is your friend.

 

[Cr0wL0ck]

you don't go into dungeon's for xp but for the gear and only when you got quests in order to make up for the lost xp time.

1 person = 100xp
2 people = 50xp each.
3 people = ~39xp each.
4 people = ~33xp each.
5 people = ~28xp each.

considering you are running a normal 5 man group you all gain 28 experience per kill, even if you doubled this it wouldn't equal what a single player would earn although you can kill faster you will need to take breaks occasionally in order not to be wiped by running out of mana etc.

even if it was an elite then it would grant double xp for single player as well so adding that to calculations would change nothing, and they can be found anywhere not just in dungeons.

single player
world = 100 xp
dungeon = 200 xp

5 man dungeon group
1x exp = 28 xp each
2x exp = 56 xp each

5 man world group
1x exp = 28 xp each

 

[Zed]

you don't go into dungeon's for xp but for the gear and only when you got quests in order to make up for the lost xp time.



considering you are running a normal 5 man group you all gain 28 experience per kill, even if you doubled this it wouldn't equal what a single player would earn although you can kill faster you will need to take breaks occasionally in order not to be wiped by running out of mana etc.

even if it was an elite then it would grant double xp for single player as well so adding that to calculations would change nothing, and they can be found anywhere not just in dungeons.

single player
world = 100 xp
dungeon = 200 xp

5 man dungeon group
1x exp = 28 xp each
2x exp = 56 xp each

5 man world group
1x exp = 28 xp each

You should edit your first post and show them a few numbers, so after they read then they can decide if it's really that worse..

 

[Mabrook]

If you want people to run dungeons - you should boost exp from Dungeon's quests up to 3 times (x2-x3). This is extremely strong motivation for player to visit every dungeon at least once.

'x2 exp' from dungeons will lead to 'dungeon farming'. Quests' exp boost - no.

 

[Hagson]

you don't go into dungeon's for xp but for the gear and only when you got quests in order to make up for the lost xp time.



considering you are running a normal 5 man group you all gain 28 experience per kill, even if you doubled this it wouldn't equal what a single player would earn although you can kill faster you will need to take breaks occasionally in order not to be wiped by running out of mana etc.

even if it was an elite then it would grant double xp for single player as well so adding that to calculations would change nothing, and they can be found anywhere not just in dungeons.

single player
world = 100 xp
dungeon = 200 xp

5 man dungeon group
1x exp = 28 xp each
2x exp = 56 xp each

5 man world group
1x exp = 28 xp each

First off all I would like some source as to where you're getting your first numbers from.

Secondly you completely disregarded the point about double xp from elites.




Assuming your numbers about XP distribution are correct the following approximation would be better;
Generic mob in world while alone: 100xp
Generic mob in dungeon while alone: 200xp
Generic mob in world while in group: 28xp
Generic mob in dungeon while in group: 56xp
Generic mob in dungeon while in group with double XP: 112xp

Also keep in mind that you get gear, you can complete dungeon-specific quests which usually have good rewards, and that an elite mob usually dies faster to a group than a normal one does to a soloer.

Not only would this mean that leveling in dungeons would be considerably faster, leading to a deader world it would also greatly benefit and incentivise multiboxers since they could level incredibly fast by grinding mobs inside dungeons.

 

[Omni]

1x globally. Dungeons are meant to supplement questing and grinding by providing a host of quests and gear drops. They mix up the leveling process. I usually do one or two runs of most dungeons just for the gear / fun. it might not be the most efficient but i like it.

If dungeons become 2x, chain running SM will look a lot more appealing than doing anything in the open world.

- - - Updated - - -

Also if 2x is true in dungeons, its a huge face slap to normal elite quests like stromgarde, which is basically an outdoor lvl 40 instance with no guarenteed blues and world PvP.

Keep it 1x, keep it vanilla.

 

[Zed]

Generic mob in dungeon while in group with double XP: 112xp

This are 4x xp
2x are 56xp

Without any adjustments u gain roughly just a quarter what u would gain while solo grinding open world.
So u had to be almost 4 times faster killing stuff in dungeons to archieve the same killspeed.
And killing mobs in dungeons take some time with proper woking ai and mechanics.. It's not just nuke everything down and go on..

Without any adjustment u will barely find any groups for some of the more remote instances, sm, sfk mara for aliance for example.

 

[joyman]

Leave vanilla to be vanilla... why ruin what you want to replay how it was?

 

[Hagson]

This are 4x xp
2x are 56xp

Without any adjustments u gain roughly just a quarter what u would gain while solo grinding open world.
So u had to be almost 4 times faster killing stuff in dungeons to archieve the same killspeed.
And killing mobs in dungeons take some time with proper woking ai and mechanics.. It's not just nuke everything down and go on..

Without any adjustment u will barely find any groups for some of the more remote instances, sm, sfk mara for aliance for example.

Generic mob in world =/= Generic mob in instance

i also know that when i was in a dungeon, i got very good experience. i went to dungeons specificly for exp when i got bored of leveling. i remember this because i went often to dungeons.

maybe because of this:

• Elite mobs will give more experience than similar non-elite mobs.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Elite_creature


and there are many elite mobs in dungeons.

Edit: Mobs that are flagged as elite will give twice the amount of experience as a normal mob for the same level.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mob_XPj



WoWwiki is your friend.

Crowlock completely ignored this, that is why our numbers are so different.

 

[Captem]

Leave vanilla to be vanilla... why ruin what you want to replay how it was?

^ this

 

[Cr0wL0ck]

i updated the first post with the information as well as the source, the 100 xp is an example and the information source is from 2006 during patch 1.12.1

note: blizzard also improved experience earned in dungeons later on, or rather they raised the overall experience gain slightly with each and every expansion so you cannot say it isn't "blizzlike" and lets be honest would you even consider doing an instance if it has no good loot for you or you got all the loot and there are no quests or you already did them ? or would you sit in a 5 man dungeon group even if the xp rate inside was doubled meaning you got around 56% of the normal xp per monster compared to world farming ? the answer would be no and you would most likely not even look at the xp earned and compare it to retail unless it was buffed to 5-10x inside a dungeon due to the already reduced xp in group's.

 

[Hagson]

i updated the first post with the information as well as the source, the 100 xp is an example and the information source is from 2006 during patch 1.12.1

note: blizzard also improved experience earned in dungeons later on, or rather they raised the overall experience gain slightly with each and every expansion so you cannot say it isn't "blizzlike" and lets be honest would you even consider doing an instance if it has no good loot for you or you got all the loot and there are no quests or you already did them ? or would you sit in a 5 man dungeon group even if the xp rate inside was doubled meaning you got around 56% of the normal xp per monster compared to world farming ? the answer would be no and you would most likely not even look at the xp earned and compare it to retail unless it was buffed to 5-10x inside a dungeon due to the already reduced xp in group's.

In the very same link you used as proof they say that an elite mob gives 2x XP.
This means that without modified rates a dungeon mob would give you 56% (plus dungeon quests, boss drops, additional greens etc etc.) and with modified rates it would give you 112% (!)

Not only would this make the world more empty since people would be farming dungeons for XP, it would also benefit and encourage multiboxers since farming XP in groups suddenly becomes a very very efficient way to level.

 

[Cr0wL0ck]

@Hagson: not all dungeon mobs are elite and elites give single players 2x experience as well and they can be found outside dungeons too.

and the 100 xp is an example but ok i will try to explain

if a normal grants 100 xp, a elite will give you 200 xp regardless of dungeon or world but the suggestion with 2x would double this xp for normal from 28 to 56 and elite 56 to 112 which essentially still is 56% for a player in a 5 man group while the single player would gain 100% for the same task.

and no the group xp is still 1x since it is only "dungeons" that should be granting 2x experience so if you farm them solo you will earn more experience than as a group so it is not becourse you are in a group but simply within the dungeon that you gain more.

 

[Hagson]

@Hagson: not all dungeon mobs are elite and elites give single players 2x experience as well and they can be found outside dungeons too.

and the 100 xp is an example but ok i will try to explain

if a normal grants 100 xp, a elite will give you 200 xp regardless of dungeon or world but the suggestion with 2x would double this xp for normal from 28 to 56 and elite 56 to 112 which essentially still is 56% for a player in a 5 man group while the single player would gain 100% for the same task.

Of course, but a single player kills a non-elite in approximately the same time it takes for a dungeon group to kill an elite mob. In my experience mobs generally die faster in dungeons that in the world, but ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it takes equally long time to kill both.

 

[Cr0wL0ck]

if you take a single player vs a group and make them kill the same type target then the group wins in a matter of speed yes but you are forgetting that a dungeon is set up so you need to take occasional water/food breaks as well as waiting on teams to form or when afk compared to a single player who can jump from target to target without much delay or waiting on others or tactics.

i wouldn't mind 1.5x rate or such either as long as it stays below 3x and above 1x in order to make some dungeons more appealing even after getting the gear so you can help a friend knowing ur not just completely wasting time when leveling unless you have all quests.

 

[Hagson]

if you take a single player vs a group and make them kill the same type target then the group wins in a matter of speed yes but you are forgetting that a dungeon is set up so you need to take occasional water/food breaks as well as waiting on teams to form or when afk compared to a single player who can jump from target to target without much delay or waiting on others or tactics.

A single player also has to take food/drink breaks, waiting for teams to form is not a huge time waster since you can usually quest or at least grind in the meantime. Tactics are only applicable for bosses, and even so very rarely in lower levels. In dungeons you also kill mobs that are generally your level or higher, compared to when outside and rarely killing mobs more than 2 levels above you. This gives even more of an xp benefit for dungeons.

When running a dungeon you also get gear and rare drops in a higher quantity, and getting reduced XP in exchange for that seems fair to me.


What you are advocating is that dungeons should give more XP than grinding, while still providing unique quest rewards, unique drops and larger than average quantities of greens and world drops.

This would make dungeons the place to go for leveling, which will reduce the population in the world, making the server feel more dead and reduce world pvp.

It would also encourage people to multibox since leveling 5 characters at once by running dungeons would take less time than leveling a single one by grinding, while still providing plenty of benefits.