Future of Kronos 1 PvP

[sushibarf]

I'm mad because you go out of your way to write an essay complaining about pvp, while going out of your way to screw it up even more by doing these sorts of things. I didn't insult you, you got angry because I was right.

What exactly did I screw up while being a snake?
I don't carry flag. I still have the same hitbox. I'm still visible. I might aswell use noggenfogger and world enlarger.

 

[eljay]

I think the problem with it sushi is that alliance does not like this. You complain about que times, and horde continue to take advantage of being a some sort of critter. As a result less alliance will que. It doesn't help that they are having a tough enough time already winning games. Yes you may say "well form a premade" but currently alliance are suffering from lack of pvpers/rankers so it is a bit hard. A couple months back horde was having the same problem as they were having a tough time winning games at any time of the day. The horde premade then dodged a lot as well. During this time though alliance had a lot of people ranking/pvping for fun and multiple premades resulted because of it. A lot of those players lost interest in the game or got their ranks and stopped. It will take sometime to switch back but right now it isn't the most fun to que on alliance.

 

[sushibarf]

I think the problem with it sushi is that alliance does not like this. You complain about que times, and horde continue to take advantage of being a some sort of critter. As a result less alliance will que. It doesn't help that they are having a tough enough time already winning games. Yes you may say "well form a premade" but currently alliance are suffering from lack of pvpers/rankers so it is a bit hard. A couple months back horde was having the same problem as they were having a tough time winning games at any time of the day. The horde premade then dodged a lot as well. During this time though alliance had a lot of people ranking/pvping for fun and multiple premades resulted because of it. A lot of those players lost interest in the game or got their ranks and stopped. It will take sometime to switch back but right now it isn't the most fun to que on alliance.

Finally someone with constructive feedback on that matter. Thank you!

Don't really get what being a critter is more of an advantage than small effect of Noggenfogger + World enlarger but ok.

And since I don't want to be a stubborn chil like some of the guys around here, I even made a bug-report:
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=9164

And yes not internal, so dev's have to fix it asap if they don't want more people to abuse it.

Don't really get what being a critter is more of an advantage than small effect of Noggenfogger + World enlarger but ok.

It hides cast animations. I get it know. Fix please.

 

[Jahreno]

Don't really get what being a critter is more of an advantage than small effect of Noggenfogger + World enlarger but ok.

http://imgur.com/a/E6iDZ

see the flag?

we dont either, no particles/trace left behind, just make the stupid headless chickens(us) fall for a fake(coz no trace) and carry your flag in some corner of the map where we cant possibly detect. I'm telling you, its seriously hard to understand where the fuck flag carrier is if you dont have someone to mind vision. Once flag carrier goes some fake path its basically over because we cant see the trace and report properly. There IS a reason flag and its trace is visible.

Noggenfogger / World Enlarger just changes your size but blue/red colour is easily seen in green/brown WSG terrain.

 

[sushibarf]

Added to bugreport. Thanks. My apologies.

 

[Brochette]

Yes try to tell appart a druid/shaman in caster form or in travel form aswell when trying to sleep/sap.
It's stupid, and a clear abuse of bug in a way to gain an advantage, and using it is a clear offense to Kronos rules and all of you should get banned as specified here.

It is crystal clear:
B. It is prohibited to abuse bugs/exploits or use of game mechanics in a way that is not intended. Ignorance of this behavior is not an excuse.
. In cases of PvP/Honor abuse, it’s within the discretion of Kronos Team members to penalize or remove honor from offending players.

I dont know what the GMs are doing but you are fucking lucky, they were harsher last year.

 

[sushibarf]

Yes try to tell appart a druid/shaman in caster form or in travel form aswell when trying to sleep/sap.

Uhm if use Noggenfogger Skeleton or Rotten Apple I also hide my druid form.

But yea, let me know if you find a screenshot/clip of me carrying the flag with 'hexed' effect.
You won't find any.

Now stay on topic and stop pointing fingers at people when you got enough weight to carry

 

[Brochette]

Irrevelant, cost time, money, cant ride and is remove upon death.

- - - Updated - - -

But yea, let me know if you find a screenshot/clip of me carrying the flag with 'hexed' effect.
You won't find any.

The topic is why K1 is cancer, well last clue, 2 premades are running in chicken/frog to begin with. God i got a warning before getting ban just because i was on Orgrimmar AH roof, pushing escap/logout. And this shit is still allowed, at least the set bug with added stat lasted few hours before getting fixed.

At first it was fun, now it's just an abuse.

 

[sushibarf]

The topic is why K1 is cancer, well last clue, 2 premades are running in chicken/frog to begin with. God i got a warning before getting ban just because i was on Orgrimmar AH roof, pushing escap/logout. And this shit is still allowed, at least the set bug with added stat lasted few hours before getting fixed.

At first it was fun, now it's just an abuse.

Said that because you were pointing fingers at me while you should clearly check yourself first (you said it yourself that you abused logout in PvP).

And all of a sudden I am the only bad guy? I'm not trying to defend that I used the critter stuff in 1 BG once ever (not carrying flag so imo not that big of a deal but ok).

How about instead of throwing stuff at people you use your energy to actually report these abuses / find solutions in order to make K1 "non-cancer"?

My god people are so stubborn these days. Admit that you messed up just like I did. And try to work together in order to make this a better place to PvP.

 

[Brochette]

Yeah i had to stop after 1 day because i was doing : escape/log out in an enemy city, like manually, you know. When i asked the GM how should i log out then? he said he didnt know, just dont instant logout (genius).

This critters stuff is on for 1 week now, and people keep using it, abusing it that's all.

So back to topic your final solution is easy:

-ban all the jerks, kronos shall be purged and pvp scene could go on

 

[sushibarf]

Yeah i had to stop after 1 day because i was doing : escape/log out in an enemy city, like manually, you know. When i asked the GM how should i log out then? he said he didnt know, just dont instant logout (genius).

What you say here seems to be happening since the start of the server.

There is one GM saying 'it's fine', the next one says 'I don't know' and another one says 'it's an abuse'.

There doesn't seem to be any general policy about certain things.

Best example: Prehot's recent safespotting adventures.
I've seen screenshots of other players where GM's state that this is not an abuse. Other's say it is an abuse. And I even got a clip where you can see him getting killed by a GM while he sits on a safespot.

So what gives? Maybe before giving people an answer these GM's should asked the head GM.

 

[nimeralos]

1. I liked the whole leave queue get deserter idea

Yea, would be great.

2. Create official policy that states what is legal and bannable in BG's (Jumps, spots, account sharing etc.)

Yea, it's a little bit confusing now.

3. X-Realm and check itemlvl of gear on char and bag before setting K1 players with K2 DD

Aieris've already said that the idea was abandoned some years ago because one would have to rewrite like 90% of a Mangos core for it... Through maybe now it can be reconsidered, maybe some ways can be found? Would be fun to see players of K1 farming MC+Ony for gear again to PvP with K2ers

4. Make PvP more tempting like you did with the increased reputation gain. Small amount of gold for BG-marks (worked on other servers)

I like the idea. Most of people don't PvP because "no point", maybe they'll change their mind if it'll be a way to farm some gold.

5. Fix major PvP bugs

Yea, damn Succubus is unplayable! Damn shamans are invincible! Still, Kronos PvP bug-state is great for a p-server

 

[Oidd]

playing in pugs on alliance (i can tell as healer at least) is a joke at the moment.
doing all the hassle messaging people to get online to form a (semi-)premade and 2 hours later you have only faced pugs while the horde premade is dodging is annoying (i suppose it's the same for the horde)
no wonder why people can't bother to try anymore.

only solution is to organize premade vs premade games with people willing to have fun.

 

[Levinas]

I tuned in to Sushi's stream late last night.

They sat forever in queue and when they finally got a game, it was the most trivial faceroll. Glad I'm not playing on K1 at this point.

 

[raekon]

I agree Sushi, the state of pvp at K1 is decreasing, and i have a hard time seeing how it gets fixed. The real issue lies in the opening of K2; all new players will tend to go for the realm with a shorter lifetime, understandably. Theres no fun in getting 60 at a realm where everyone is fully T2 with legendarys. Without overthinking it too much, i think it will get even worse. Vanilla wow requires shitloads of hours put in, and i think a larger amount of people are quitting than starting at K1 atm. I feel like the people that are hitting 60 now, are some of those that started on K1 before K2 had launched, so as time progresses, even fewer people will pvp. Nostalrius players are already 60, the feenix players are done PvPing, whats left is only the small amount of people that start on K1.

How do we as a community fix this? We can't. Implementing K2 was not a mistake, but in the hindsight of the DDoS, it is! The PvP pool on K1 went from 2000 to 1000 during the DDoS, everything is about supply and demand, and there is no demand for a second Kronos server, atleast not from a PvP perspective. I wish K1 and K2 could be merged x-realm, but i dont know how they could justify that suddenly K2 people are gonna get Sulfuras rekt on a daily basis.

As for alliance pov at the pvp situation; i can clearly see the decrease in players, all the previous rank 13/14 have either quit the game or stepped down after finishing their rank, they will play a few BG's a week, but that does not help the queue or the PvP pool. When my brother (Iwilltiltyou) and i started ranking, alliance had a premade consistint of War Sole, and we ourselves made a premade of whoever wasn't invited into that group. We had plenty of people to play with. Now, we can barely pull a main group together, and when we do, it consist of 3-4 warriors, and what group have ever benefitted by 4 warriors, specially if they arn't fully epiced with Ashkandi / Sulfuras.

Not too many weeks ago, i feel that the Horde and Alliance premades (The ones playing alot, for ranking, not the ones that are already geared and just wanna snipe) fought well, but the decrease in competition on classes and fear of loosing a spot is ruining the morale. We play unorganized even though we have played hundreds of WSGs together. Alliance queues are still hot and i feel bad for the hordes having to sit in endless queues.

I cant speak for everyone on Alliance, but only from a personal perspective (and i dont play that much anymore, too much RL agro), but i can definetly understand the demotivation; We have to put in many hours a day, day in day out to reach honor caps, and there have been disagreements with Chinese premades and player that went rogue, that have forced people to play even more. And right now the typical queue session goes something like this: Horde Ranking Premade -> Chinese Premade -> PuG -> Arcanum Premade -> Horde Ranking Premade -> PuG -> Arcanum .... Rinse repeat. (The PuG can sometimes be a random horde premade)

Of course premade vs premade is hillarious, and a few weeks back when we had 10 PuGs in a row, we were hoping for a good fight soon because it got too monotone. But trying to farm 400k honor and facing premades in 75% of the games and having to fight long games, can be exhausting. From a PvP honor farming perspective, instant queues are fantastic and something you cant complain about, but from a competitive perspective, it gets hard to focus, we could just take a break once in a while, but that brings me back to the instant queues being tempting.

I talked about us not being able make a proper setup, often bringing 3-4 warriors, but i also feel that not only do we have a small player pool, we also get outgeared badly. We are all equipped in Blue pvp gear, while our competition is T2 + R12/13 geared. Malise / Naturalist / Any Warlock can basically oneshot all of our Warriors in matter of 1½ gcd. This does not take anything away from any of you, i think people like Sushi, Burn, Malise, Swag, Ladow, Naturalist, H2K and most of the frost mages and hunters are all really great players, and i wish Alliance had a bigger player pool that dosn't just consist of warriors (i swear we could make a WSG premade with 10 warriors who are all ranking atm).

My conclusion? K1 PvP can't be fixed. Over the next 2 weeks atleast 7-8 high ranked alliance PvPers will be done, and theres barely anyone to take over, and these people are all playing every day, so this basically means there will be 1 less WSG. My best bet is that Twinstar has to rethink K1/K2.

// Tiltinc

 

[Smoker]

Opening multiqueue did not make life easier for pugs - instead it made life easier for premades. This change should be reverted

Many people will return when aq is released and tier 2.5 has pvp-minded stats on it for all classes so there should be new blood in battlegrounds in a month or two

Game Masters need to differentiate between "game sabotage" and "using the environment" when it comes to battlegrounds.
They also said they are working on ways to combat the honor-seller market, but that it wont happen before aq is out.

as for bugs that makes pvp shit -> gogo bug tracker with sources or your just honking ur horn in a traffic jam

 

[nimeralos]

Opening multiqueue did not make life easier for pugs - instead it made life easier for premades. This change should be reverted

Well, it's discussable. At least on K2, pugs began to dodge - soloqueuer enters WSG, see R13s and switch to AB, if there's a prem there too - he's most likely to switch to still-played AV. And, in my opinion, it's not too cancerous - strong prems are getting a free win against a pug anyway, no matter if it's 10 ppl in a pug or 1.

However, I realize that it's pretty unstable situation - there's going to be less and less AVs every day - and it's also faction-based, because Hordies don't get instaqueues afaik.

 

[Peasemold]

The crittermorph stuff was a fun little bug to roleplay as a snake in ZG until dumbasses decided to abuse it to the point it's at now.

Also when are they going to fix second client log in to avoid dying in world PvP? Had a fucking tank do it yesterday to avoid dying at Emeriss.

 

[Oidd]

Also when are they going to fix second client log in to avoid dying in world PvP? Had a fucking tank do it yesterday to avoid dying at Emeriss.

next level abuse. how do people even come up with those? i feel stupid sometimes.

 

[perpxgodx]

there are many solutions but the majority of them are very taxing on devs

implement /cdrduel command for dueling with cd reset (with abuse protection)
this would reset cooldowns but depending on the timer would prevent the players engaging in combat with other people/mobs for the duration (so if a player uses rocket helm, they wont be able to attack mobs/players for 20 mins)

pseudo rated bgs
if (minimum) 5 grouped players queue into 5 other grouped players, the players in the groups have their stats tracked and the players with the highest rating get vanity items at the end of the month (titles like outlaw etc)

custom azshara crater
takes a fuck tonne of work but AB style nodes with a map could work

small amount of gold for marks, or exchange of marks for herbs/ores/etc
encourages pveboys to play

increased honour for kills in the world
in high level zones (silithus/epl etc), however the bonus is negated when more than 3 players are part of the kill

gaining 50 hks in the world (without a single death maybe?) in one day gives you an hour +5% dmg boost
stop raidlogging you cucks

npc to queue from, into a small custom arena map
needs to have rating if it will encourage more players to log

add small vanity rewards for winning consecutive BGs as a solo player
f.eg. winning 10 games in a row allows you to morph into a small model of your choice (through an npc) or you automatically gain a vanity aura (like path of illidan) for 2-3 days

staff sponsored pvp events with leaderboards
can have pvp tournaments every 2 weeks if possible with small vanity rewards/stars/leaderboards, but rules have to be crafted by capable individuals

have a few extra ideas but they're even more 'custom' than the above, lmk what you all think of those

 

[maredasan]

The dream..

 

[sushibarf]

1. Yes, we need some kind of incentive for new players and raidloggers (Gold, buffs etc.)

2. Ispod has a valid point: Before implementing major changes like multi-queue forever we should have a test phase of maybe like 4 weeks. After that the players and Kronos team can decide whether the fix should stay or not.

3. What ever happend to the .bgcommand? Queues are long. Why not give players the opportunity to be able to queue from everywhere.
Let's say I'm farming herbs in Silithus and feel like playing some BG's...

Oh yea it's not blizzlike. boohoo...

 

[Labathor]

small amount of gold for marks, or exchange of marks for herbs/ores/etc
encourages pveboys to play

Feenix did this and it worked, it was only 3gold per turn in of 3 marks, but it came pretty much on par to mind numbing farming all week between raids and pvping wsg and sometimes AB between raids.

I'd say this was something that worked quite well for them, other than the fact that myself and a large group of people figured a way to glitch the turn in so we could get infinity gold.... Don't worry we were gifted a wonderful perm-ip ban as we should and I tested it here to make sure the way we did it doesn't work here.

 

[Mahmut]

No need to remove multiqueue, just add something to it, Community strong here:

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...l=1#post829874
1. Deserter on dropping queue.
2. Fix the alt+f4 exploit
3. Add multiqueue - but ONLY for players queueing solo.

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...l=1#post831801
Enable multique, but disable the option to join another bg if you have group joined

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...l=1#post827798
SOLUTION: Remove raid's queue, just party of 5 man max.

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...l=1#post827549
IMO you should get the Deserter debuff for not joining your queue and be done with it.

And my signature.

 

[sushibarf]

Feenix did this and it worked, it was only 3gold per turn in of 3 marks, but it came pretty much on par to mind numbing farming all week between raids and pvping wsg and sometimes AB between raids.

If this get implemented we need some way to kick AFK players. Voting system what so ever. Which ofc could also be abuse. You are not AFK but I don't like you? Vote kick and see what happens.

I can already see people afking in BG to get 3g from 10 min mark. So we need some counter 1st.