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Gating faction rewards

ffaxu

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Sep 9, 2014
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#1
Will you be gating faction rewards to release them only once the appropriate level of progression has been made?

For example:

  • Argent Dawn's Armaments of the Dawn were added in 1.11 with the release of Naxxramas
  • Cenarion Circle's +15 fire and nature resist enchants were added in 1.9 with the beginning of the Gates of Ahn'Quiraj world event.
 

Lharts

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#3
For example the T0.5 quest chain will be released before AQ40. According to a post.
If it makes sense and does not break the game its okay to release it prior to the instances it was introduced with.

Like the T0.5 chain it gives people an opportunity to farm gear all on their own and like giving them a huge ingame goal -> motivation.
Actually I don't see AD breaking the game in any way since there are items for each of the slots which are just as good as the AD rewards.
CC... not sure.
 

ffaxu

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#4
Actually I don't see AD breaking the game in any way since there are items for each of the slots which are just as good as the AD rewards.
Argent Dawn's Armaments of the Dawn has some best in slot pre raid gear. This boosts the item level of people when they first zone into MC which makes that raid even MORE trivial. Without all the gear that was released after 1.1 MC should be more challenging.
 
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Lharts

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#5
Like what item you are refering too exactly?

https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=15411 Melee Neck
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=22403 Caster Neck
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=18497 Healer/Caster Wrists
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=18375 Melee Wrists
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=12651 Melee range weapon

For the caster trinket there are actually several good substitutes. Ony pre trinket, DM class trinket, Drakki Trinket, Burst of Knowledge w/e.

So I don't see the AD rep items really effecting the gameplay in any kind of way other then giving the player base a goal they can pursue right from the start.
 

Aieris

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#7
BTW, I want to see those, who will have AD rewards before they first enter MC. It will take at last 14 days of farming to reach these rewards.
 

Wind

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#9
AD rewards before MC ? Well the most interesting rewards from this reputation are added with the Scourge Invasion so epic necklaces, trinket, gun, 18 Slots bag etc. are not supposed to be implemented at the beginning. Anyways this rep is pretty long to farm and not obligatory for first raids.
 
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Lharts

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#10
Read my post, there are alot items that are available before MC that are either superior or slightly inferior to AD epics (which are damn hard to get anyways). Having them before MC just adds more content, but doesn't effect the game negatively.
 

ffaxu

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#11
If memory serves, Leggings of the Plague Hunter were best in slot pre raid for Hunters and I think the same is true for some other classes but I'm not sure enough to write about it. If you know what you're doing, levelling up Argent Dawn reputation (and other reputations) whilst levelling your character isn't actually all that difficult and gives you gear on par with what drops in ZG before your first raid. T0 is mostly worthless with such high quality gear available and trivialises that content entirely.
 
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#12
The amount of effort required to get the epic Argent Armaments are MASSIVE for a newly dinged 60 and quality-wise they are only slightly better than what you can get from 5 mans (they are not on par with ZG drops), they mostly served as twink items people would get for their alts to get them raid-ready faster and for the non-raiding community (which in vanilla was huge, but we don't really see them on private servers).
 

ffaxu

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#13
The amount of effort required to get the epic Argent Armaments are MASSIVE for a newly dinged 60 and quality-wise they are only slightly better than what you can get from 5 mans (they are not on par with ZG drops), they mostly served as twink items people would get for their alts to get them raid-ready faster and for the non-raiding community (which in vanilla was huge, but we don't really see them on private servers).
Tell me again how Armaments of the Dawn loot is not on par with Zul'Gurub loot. Do you often talk about things that you know nothing about?
 

indaco

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#14
Please keep in mind farming ad rep on x1 server gonna take a lot of time :p mc will be full cleared before someone haz rep and enought mats for epic item
 

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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#16
oO what does the xp rates change, when it comes to rep grinding?
not much aside from you can start grinding it faster and multiboxers will get there sooner and you know how fast they can grind :wink:

i don't mind changing the xp rate a bit but i think it would be a shame considering how fixed it will be that people rush across never to see or experience how leveling was back then.
 
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#17
Tell me again how Armaments of the Dawn loot is not on par with Zul'Gurub loot. Do you often talk about things that you know nothing about?
There's a 5 point stat difference between Leggings of the Plague Hunter and Bloodstained Legplates, if they are on par, then Leggings of the Plague Hunter will also be on par with http://www.wowwiki.com/Leggings_of_Destruction meaning there is no reason whatsoever to sink days of grinding into Leggings of the Plague Hunter?

5 point stat difference is close, but not on par.
 

ffaxu

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#18
I don't think you guys understand how Classic works.

Non-tier item drops are a little more complicated to model and calculate given that bosses sometimes share loot tables so let's just consider the case for a tier item drop because each tier item is assigned to a specific boss. Bosses drop 2 tier set items each, randomly selected from a possible 9. The probability that one of the set items will be the item for your class is 1/9 = 0.1111111... and the probability that both of the set items will be the items for your class is (1/9) * (1/9) = 0.0123456... In other words roughly 10% and 1% respectively. For simplicity's sake let's only consider the case of one item dropping which is 10%. 10% means you're going to have to kill the boss 10 times before you have a 100% chance of seeing the loot you want once. 10 times = 10 weeks = 2 and a half months. And that's just for a 100% chance to see the loot you want ONCE. In any given guild there are 5-8 people of your class all of whom want the same loot which means you're going to have to kill every boss for 50-80 weeks (roughly 1 to one and a half years) before everyone in your guild has their upgrade from that tier.

In other words, you will wear your non-raid gear for a long time before it's all upgraded. I hope you realise now that it is much more likely that you are exalted with every faction in the game (including Bloodsaid Buccaneers) before you have a 100% chance of upgrading every pre-raid piece of loot in MC. This is why all available non-raid loot makes such a difference to the game and why having Leggings of the Plague Hunter available to bridge the gap between Leggings of Destruction and any raid gear (ZG, AQ20, MC, etc.) makes such a difference.
 
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#19
In other words, you will wear your non-raid gear for a long time before it's all upgraded. I hope you realise now that it is much more likely that you are exalted with every faction in the game (including Bloodsaid Buccaneers) before you have a 100% chance of upgrading every pre-raid piece of loot in MC. This is why all available non-raid loot makes such a difference to the game and why having Leggings of the Plague Hunter available to bridge the gap between Leggings of Destruction and any raid gear (ZG, AQ20, MC, etc.) makes such a difference.
I guess that's where our opinion differs, because of the effort required for a newly dinged level 60 to actually get Leggings of the Plague Hunter I don't think it's a big deal, some piece of gear will always be pre-raid BiS and the amount of grinding required to get this particular piece of pre-raid BiS makes it fair game in my opinion...

Now if Leggings of the Plague Hunter was superior to raid drops (like Rockfury Bracers from the Silithus elite quests) I'd say they should be no-go from launch, but that's not the case, so if a newly dinged hunter takes the effort required for them, I say he earned the extra bits of agility he'll have compared to his guildmates wearing Leggings of Destruction.

Edit: Actually looking through the options of hunter legs I'd say that Leggings of the Plague Hunter is not nesseccarily pre-raid BiS even, for alot of MC fights a hunter would rather wear Black Dragonscale leggings and if he can get 3 pieces of the set he may want to always wear those over Leggings of the Plague Hunter (depending on what other gear choices he have for chest/shoulders/boots), the same can be said for Beaststalker, if he can get the 6 piece set bonus I'd say the legs would be better than Plague Hunter, specially considering that Beaststalker Belt, Shoulders and Gloves are pretty bad and having more than 1 of these will be a major loss of agility.

(Edit again: Aaah the joys of vanilla itemization, so looking forward to actually thinking about my gear choices instead of mindlessly following a guide again)
 
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ffaxu

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#21
SgtFreakshow you make good points. I still believe it's relatively easy to become revered with Argent Dawn but that's mostly just a difference of opinion/strategy. I have thought about this some more and I think that if it's a 1.12 server, it should just be the state of the game as of 1.12 the same way Blizzard would release a new server at 1.12.
 

Lharts

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#22
You can turn back the wheels of time only to an extent.
The content will never be exactly the same since all the talent tress have had their revamp already.
Since this server will release the PvE content gradually it only makes sense to also release the additional farmable items gradually.

What I try to say here is that I am fine with AD rewards, but I am not fine with having Earthstrike or Rockfury rigth from the start.
 
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