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Paladin Improved SOR oder SOC as Holy Paladin

frederik

Authorized
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Ahoi,

I always played a Holy paladin because it just fits my playstyle the most, even when leveling. Besides that, with a few points in Retribution damage output was always okay for me (perhaps I was just used to it).
What does benefit more from Spelldamage? Seal of Righteousness or Seal of Command? Does Seal of Command benefit from Spellcrit? As far as I remember (it's been a while) Seal of Righteousness cannot hit critical, right? Are the 5 points for Improved Seal of Righteousness worth it in my case? Or should I put them in Divine Strength instead (as more melee damage does improve the damage of Seal of Righteousness and Seal of Command).


Thanks for your help
 
While leveling SoR, when 60 SoC.

SoC has the higher Judgment. Even more so on stunned targets.
Without gear SoR is slightly stronger.
 
onehand + shield - sor
twohand - soc

but you mentioned leveling on holy, so i must recommend onehand,shield and Sor everything around you :D
 
So from what factors do both seals benefit? SoR does additional Holy damage. The slower the weapon the greater the damage. But its damage is independend of weapon DPS right? So does Spelldamage affect it? SoC deals 70 % weapon damage as Holy. Is it also affected by spelldamage then? Because weapon DPS and attack power will affect it. In contrast to SoR, which cannot crit, SoC can. Does spellcrit or meleecrit affect the chance for it to crit?
And the damange when judging SoR and SoC is only effected by spellpower and spellcrit right?
 
What does benefit more from Spelldamage?
SoC gains 20% spelldmg at any time.
SoR gains 10% spelldmg while you use onehand weapon or while you are unarmed. It gains 12% while using twohand weapon.
Either way, SoC gains more bonus from spelldamage.

Seal of Righteousness or Seal of Command?
Depends on what weapon you are using. See below.

Does Seal of Command benefit from Spellcrit?
No. It benefits from melee crit.

As far as I remember (it's been a while) Seal of Righteousness cannot hit critical, right?
Correct.

Are the 5 points for Improved Seal of Righteousness worth it in my case?
They are never worth it.

Or should I put them in Divine Strength instead...
Put them into Spiritual Focus. If you already have that, get 2/2 Unyielding Faith, 2/2 Improved BoWisdom and 1/2 Lay on Hands.

(as more melee damage does improve the damage of [CR]Seal of Righteousness and[/CR] Seal of Command)
.
Strength or more melee damage has no effect on SoR. You can deal 5000 with autoattacks, SoR will still hit for 100-ish damage.

So from what factors do both seals benefit?
Only spelldamage. And extra +%Holy and +%Total damage of course.

And the damange when judging SoR and SoC is only effected by spellpower and spellcrit right?
Correct.

Weapon DPS does not matter. Let's take a middle level example:
You're level 36, so you're using SoR rank 5 and SoC rank 2. You have The Pacifier and Dazzling Longsword.

At this level, you probably don't have any spellpower, let's say you have 400 Attack Power.
With Pacifier:
your SoR will deal: 31 damage per swing, that means 31 dmg every 4 seconds, or 7,75 DPS.
your SoC will deal: 218 (lowest possible autohit) *0,7 = 152 dmg, the chance to proc is 46,66%, in other words, your SoC will proc every 2,14 swings, so 152 dmg / 2,14 = 71,02, and you swing once every 4 seconds, so 71,02 / 4 = 17,75 DPS.

With Dazzling Longsword:
your SoR will deal: 14 damage per swing, that means 14 dmg every 1,7 seconds, or 8,23 DPS.
your SoC will deal: 85 (lowest possible autohit) *0,7 = 59 dmg, the chance to proc is 19,83%, in other words, your SoC will proc every 5,04 swings, so 59 dmg / 5,04 = 11,70, and you swing once every 1,7 seconds, so 11,70 / 1,7 = 6,88 DPS.

As you can see, Seal of Command is better with twohanders by default. There is one much more important thing - you should add Judgement of the Crusader to your every target. At level 36, you have rank 4 Seal of the Crusader, giving you +80 holy damage bonus. The coefficients apply, thus
1handed SoR gets +8
2handed SoR gets +9
SoC gets +16

Adding that to the previous calculation:
With Pacifier:
your SoR will deal: 31+9 damage per swing, that means 40 dmg every 4 seconds, or 10 DPS.
your SoC will deal: 218 (lowest possible autohit) *0,7 +16 = 166 dmg, the chance to proc is 46,66%, in other words, your SoC will proc every 2,14 swings, so 166 dmg / 2,14 = 77,57, and you swing once every 4 seconds, so 77,57 / 4 = 19,39 DPS.

With Dazzling Longsword:
your SoR will deal: 14+8 damage per swing, that means 22 dmg every 1,7 seconds, or 12,94 DPS.
your SoC will deal: 85 (lowest possible autohit) *0,7 +16 = 75 dmg, the chance to proc is 19,83%, in other words, your SoC will proc every 5,04 swings, so 75 dmg / 5,04 = 14,88, and you swing once every 1,7 seconds, so 14,88 / 1,7 = 8,75 DPS.

The DPS of your SoR is nearly the same, it's only slightly better with faster weapons. The DPS of your SoC will become far superior with bigger twohanders (read: highest weapon damage). Use SoR at most to about level 20 (unless you plan to slowly level with a shield), then start bashing heads with twohanders.

This calculation happens in an ideal world where you don't miss and enemies never parry or dodge and where Seal of Command can also never crit.

PS: fail. I forgot the weapon speed with Seal of Command calc :D edited in.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Psojed for your detailed answer. I guess first thing I take when leveling is Seal of Command and a slow two-handed weapon. I can't wait to try out my old build again :)
 
I also prefer levelling as holy, however I always pick up SoC as early as possible (usually go Consecrate -> SoC), when I level I will switch between 1-hand & shield and a two-hander depending if I am AoEing or singling out mobs.

The reason Imp SoR is useless when levelling with that specc is that when you're AoEing (using one-hander) you'll use Seal of Wisdom to keep your mana up as you use Consecrate on every available cooldown and have to heal yourself throughout the fights.
 
The reason Imp SoR is useless..

..because it adds bonus to the base Seal damage.

Patch 2.1.0 changed it to properly add this bonus after spell damage.
Improved Seal of Righteousness: The percentage increase in damage from this talent is now applied after all bonuses from items and effects which increase your spell damage.

Example. At 416 spell damage, you would get:
No talent: 30 + 50 = 80 per hit.
Vanilla mechanic: 30 * 1,15 + 50 = 84,5 per hit.
TBC mechanic: (30 + 50) * 1,15 = 92 per hit

The more spelldamage, the better the effect on TBC, but it doesn't matter on Vanilla. So, congrats! You just spent 5 talent points and gained +4 damage! Holy cow!
 
One question though. How does Attack Power contribute to the lowest possible auto hit you calculated for each weapon?
 
Sorry, I did not express myself clearly. What I meant was how can you calculate the lowest possible autohit with a weapon? It's obviously the minumum damage per swing of the weapon plus some damage from Attack Power. But how is it done exactly?
 
Thanks! I didn't know that I could browse through old versions of an article on WoWWiki. Without that I had trouble finding information there valid for 1.12.1.
 
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