• Dear Guest,

    You're browsing our forum as a Guest meaning you can only see a portion of the forum in read-only mode.
    To view all forum nodes and be able to create threads/posts please register or log-in with your existing account.

    TwinStar team

Is it alright to discuss the competition?

sprosh

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Likes
2
#51
I have been on Nostalrius for the 3 years of beta. We had 200p for a year then as you say population dropped to 40/50 and the server closed one year after to prepare another server start.

Someone said that nostalrius beta players will have their characters back at the launch. It's not true.
 

Lharts

Authorized
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Likes
417
#52
I didn't play for that long. It was more the last 4 months before they closed it.
Still, this "stress test" only puts stress on the clients side and not the server.
For the server its just a few more numbers while the client has to display the models.

You see, I don't know the server as well you might do, its just that I think false advertisements is the wrong way to go about things.
"All hacks will be detected" -> yeah right...
"Only server that has ever" -> yeah right...
"Fixed a retail bug" -> yeah right...

The last point is the worst of all (from the clip with water elemental in WSG). Its just how the normal mangos movement system works. They didn't even do anything about it. Its the way it would work on ANY mangos server yet they claim its their fix.

I liked their server and I was really looking forward to it, but if I hate something about servers, then its beeing lied to. STRAIGHT TO MY FACE.
 

Breda

Authorized
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Likes
12
#53
i also worried that its not the same having npc-like "players" spawned at the same place and having real players with clients logged in with a screen.
 

Schaka

Authorized
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Likes
22
#54
They said in the video's description that it's not the same, but they did their very best to simulate players.
The whole "player handling system" is obviously written completely different from how mobs are handled, so it DOES put a completely different load on the server, not to mention that they also have to simulate network load (as Coreraft does, they plan or a did a similar test).

Seriously, it's the best they can do and from what I've seen they are very honest about that.
More importantly when they say their anti-cheat protects against all hacks, the way I understand it, they aren't saying it's flawless but rather a universal protection as opposed to very hack-specific warden checks.

To expand on that:
Hacks modify the client's memory on specific addresses, for example 0x0087A2. All these important addresses (maybe with a few exceptions, like nameplate range) are publically available. Now what Warden does is to scan these addresses for the expected value (for example, the value here could be a string saying "Schaka", because I modified my character's name). Should it not find the right value, the player is banned permanently.
Now someone who isn't a dirty script kiddy can either completely deny these warden checks access or just reset to the original values until the check passes.

On the other hand, there are values like x,y,z coordinates that you can't check for the "appropriate" values. So you need serverside anti-cheat too, to check if someone increases these values too quickly in short intervals. Which actually isn't that hard to check because you can write exceptions for mounts, trams, etc. Then again, if these are not written correctly people can e.g. just write heartbeat speedhacks or teleport hacks which send a larger amount of packets to the server convincing it you have actually moved that far a distance in the short amount of time because you sent, say 100, packets per second with all the necessary information in them about moving that distance. So if there is no check that actually controls whether this speed/distance/teleport/whatever is actually possible, these things can be bypassed.

Yet a proper possbility check could prevent about 99% of hacks and even limit the last 1% of them to a very specific set of hacks that do very little to no damage (like unlimited nameplate range, e.g.).


There have been "only servers with x fixed" out there a million times. That is because some bugs are either hard to crack before someone does it first or because some are just not known until they become more public to the point where several people put them on different bugtrackers with actual PROOF (always important). So I don't see why it shouldn't be possible? Surely, Kronos is the first server to ever fix the corrupted packets that disconnect you on ships and the screen freezes too, no? So why are you being so sceptical about it?

That being said, I won't actually bother checking out Nostalrius as I have no good experience with French servers and even though it is unlikely to become a second Valkyrie (which is really just a bad realm due to facist rus) admins), I would rather see a server with strong "enforced internationality/english speaking community" take over instead.
 

Wind

New Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Likes
14
#55
Anyways the main community will be french and I highly doubt that we will see a lot of English generally speaking while Kronos tend to be naturally international.

On their forum we can clearly see :

21103 Messages from the french community / 13 Messages from the English community.
 

Amrod

New Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Likes
18
#57
I have been on Nostalrius for the 3 years of beta. We had 200p for a year then as you say population dropped to 40/50 and the server closed one year after to prepare another server start.

Someone said that nostalrius beta players will have their characters back at the launch. It's not true.
I said that "beta" players will have their characters restored after a certain amount of time. And that's the truth, check their facebook page.
Btw, Nostalrius players tend to blame Kronos for having had two relaunches in the past, wherease Nostalrius just has been in "beta" state for years... yeah sure, lets call Kronos 1 alpha and K2 beta then. No shutdowns here either.
 

Chero

Kronos Administrator
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Likes
740
#58
Well, huh, their stress test...

I do not intend to sound unprofessional nor offensive, but these "tests" are not accurate from any PoV. These dummy players do not require any connection, since they are spawned by the server itself - the statement "Simulate a lot of connected players" is misleading (no connection required).

First of all, anybody is barely moving. "Players" are not using any spell, not talking, doing nothing.
When they are doing the path generation part, they show no stats, nothing how server load is affected or anything where they could prove whats actually happening to the server.
Also their path generation stress test is only about computing some short, random paths, not longer than 5yards, which can be generated without using pathfinding at all...

The 5k dummy players equals to 5k creatures, and in a normal 1.12.1 world you have around 62k creatures spawned.
Of course not all of them are loaded at once.

Anybody can say anything, even if they are looking honest or not ;)

Answering the thread title: Is it alright to discuss the competition?
I would say no, just due to the fact that even a bad advertisement is advertisement.
 
Last edited:

Zzuk

New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Likes
14
#59
Well, huh, their stress test...

I do not intend to sound unprofessional nor offensive, but these "tests" are not accurate from any PoV. These dummy players do not require any connection, since they are spawned by the server itself - the statement "Simulate a lot of connected players" is misleading (no connection required).
Wouldnt be to sure about that. Maybe they wrote a tool similar to a clientless bot? For sure I stick to Kronos but I think you cant really speculate about things that arent shown in the video.

@Schaka - very nice reply. Finally something not based on half knowledge ....
 
Last edited:

Chero

Kronos Administrator
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Likes
740
#60
Nostalrius said:
First, we reached a few hundred players on beta test, so this guy does not seem to know Nostalrius at all.

Then, and it is written is the video, these players are simulated by the server itself (it is even worse for the server !), and they do not generate any traffic. But traffic would not be that high : less than 50Mpbs / 1000 connections (system requirements for WoW Vanilla : "56k or higher modem with an Internet connection" : not much traffic !). Dedicated servers have more than 1Gbps bandwith (check it on the net if you want). That is why bandwith has never been a limitation regarding wow private servers.
What takes time, and leads to lagging servers, is computation. Spells, units movements, ... In this video, we show you simulation of movements using pathfinding (with real players, the server does not have to compute players movements !). We also made spells / movements combination testings with a lot of players online / in the same area.
More than 1500 mage gnomes raiding Orgrimmar, chain casting spells, moving all around (using pathfinding of course)
On the contrary, real players are not always attacking / moving ... More than 20% of the players are often AFK.
It's up to you to decide.
 

Walgrave

Authorized
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Likes
20
#61
Answering the thread title: Is it alright to discuss the competition?
I would say no, just due to the fact that even a bad advertisement is advertisement.
Mind elaborating? Didn't know about this french server till I read this thread, advertisement indeed. However, I also found out about Kronos from Corecraft forums. When comparing quality vs. quality, the best one wins out regardless. (Or preference of the version of the game, like CC vs. Kronos)

Allowing discussion about the competition shows confidence in your own product's quality, I've only seen CC team allow this. Accreditation of confidence exclusively goes to them right now, no? I would hope the Kronos team earns this reputation as well.

Though I should say, this thread is probably more appropriate under "Free discussion about WoW".
 
Last edited:

Aieris

Authorized
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Likes
303
#62
Kronos team are confident, that's why we can mention freely any erver in our post and not get censored like elsewhere. But if "competitors" release their server before Kronos does, it may lure our potentional players, just to try out and they may remain there even when Kronos get released.

The case of CC is different because it's different expansion - aims for different kind of players.
Furthermore, it comes to my mind, that if CC team wants to have Vanilla realm in the future too, they can try to make an agreement with Kronos staff. They have the same goals afterall :smile:
 

Lharts

Authorized
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Likes
417
#63
Trust me, on other servers this thread would be long closed or even deleted.

So far I haven't seen any topic on CCs forum that aggressively shows the progress of a direct competitor.
Which would be advertising.

CC did not fear other projects because the community widely believed that only they are able to create a high quality realm. It has nothing to do with confidence, but with the fact that so far no server (no TBC server that I know of at least) even tries to keep up with them.

Don't get me wrong, I like CC and what they try to deliver. Even though I don't like TBC.


@Aieris
They have the same goals afterall
...but not the same bank account.
 
Top Bottom