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    TwinStar team

[MC] Molten Core Is Molten Core going to be buffed because of this patch?

Qiyn

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#26
The only thing that i can say is, that on our last try (cca a year ago) we downed him to about 10% before first submerge with group of 35 players, mostly with T1/T2/ZG.
Sounds similar to ED Rag. And the only thing really difficult about ED Rag (with his 30% hp buff) was he was bugged on release. I rather TwinStar buffing all of Molten Core to keep it somewhat challenging for this patch, rather than bugging it.
 
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#27
The difference here is that you can't non-stop dps Ragnaros as the knockbacks and lava splashes will have you moving arround quite alot.
ED rag works fine aside from sons being CCable, unsure if they were in retail, melee knock back doesn't prove any problem since it's on a constant 25 second interval, melee needs little to no healing if they have the bigwigs installed
 

costy

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#28
You should be able to fear/banish sons on Raggy encounter. And a ranged knockback that hits 2, 3 MT healers can result in a tank loss. MC will not be a faceroll on start, not for all. Ofc some vanilla veterans will clear it faster and then have it on farm status.
And as far as i am concerned Tier 1 content is only a preparation for the real challenge BWL+ content.

If you tune up MC there will be winers too. So better leave it like Blizz did it and just use that excuse.
 

Qiyn

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#29
If you tune up MC there will be winers too. So better leave it like Blizz did it and just use that excuse.
Blizzard's MC was not killable the first week 40 people will enter the raid. So, what do you mean leave it like Blizz did? Buff it to make it not killable too early, or leave it unbuffed?

Either way is 'blizzlike'.
 

costy

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#30
On Kronos 2 when we first entered Molten Core we only killed 3 bosses. And we had nice gear and fine players that knew the tactic. Second week we got further but Raggy died after 3 or 4 weeks as i remember. Arcanum killed it first on feb 6th 2013, after 2 months from server start.
And by blizzlike i mean MC on 1.12 state. Buffing MC now will require a later nerf maybe, and so another debate. When this server will proceed to BWL and AQ40 there will be new players to start with a buffed MC. Maybe they want to get to AQ40 as fast as possible. I don't know, making more problems by changing more things imo.
And to be honest, what do you expect when raiding a 1.4 dungeon with 1.12 talents and gear? You wont get a first Raggy kill after 5 months like in the old days.
 

Hagson

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#31
And to be honest, what do you expect when raiding a 1.4 dungeon with 1.12 talents and gear? You wont get a first Raggy kill after 5 months like in the old days.
This is what he wants to change.

I think buffing MC is a sound idea, it would be very very easy otherwise.
 
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#32
This is what he wants to change.

I think buffing MC is a sound idea, it would be very very easy otherwise.
MC/BWL are add on checks in most fights. The only thing the staff can do is increase hp, which doesn't add any level of difficulty to the raid.

You can't make something difficult without changing the mechanics of the fights, and KTM, decursive, bigwigs, and NECB has trivialized 90% of the raid content vanilla wow has to offer.
 

Teppaz

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#33
MC/BWL are add on checks in most fights. The only thing the staff can do is increase hp, which doesn't add any level of difficulty to the raid.

You can't make something difficult without changing the mechanics of the fights, and KTM, decursive, bigwigs, and NECB has trivialized 90% of the raid content vanilla wow has to offer.
Maybe not in MC, but you still have tricky parts in BWL, be it dealing with adds on Razorgore, or tank/aggro rotation on Vael, etc.

The important part to respect is "gear check" bosses.

For instance, it's critical that Vael cannot be done in blue gear.
I remember wiping with some MC gear, ZG+Ony buff, and loaded on consumable buffs (+50 stats from BL, etc etc).
Or you should have to deal with Ragnaros' son early on.

The issue is when having such improved dps/hps will allow you to bypass the mechanics of the fight.
I dont have the number right now, but I'd be interested in having the raid dps/hps for some of the world first, then comparing with what we can achieve in blue BiS. Not having DM or D2 bosses will be a huge loss for such BiS though.
 

Teppaz

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#36
I was. Until you asked. But i cant find that information back. And Kronoez said on October 9th we'll have DM at launch. Still think it's a bad idea, even if we'll have awesome gear there.
 

Qiyn

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#38
The issue is when having such improved dps/hps will allow you to bypass the mechanics of the fight. I dont have the number right now, but I'd be interested in having the raid dps/hps for some of the world first, then comparing with what we can achieve in blue BiS. Not having DM or D2 bosses will be a huge loss for such BiS though.
Like Ironsides said, its not just dps/hps increases that allow you to bypass a fight. Vael is easymode with KTM.

Solely increasing the health of bosses will not be effective. It would force raids to see Raggy P2, but both phases will still be trivial!

I do indeed suggest changing the mechanics to accommodate the player buffs. But i do want to keep the same theme of each fight. For example, giving Baron the ability to Living Bomb multiple targets will increase his difficulty without changing what Baron Geddon is all about. Including a new, rogue mob on the Razorgore encounter is another example. Substantially buffing the damage/timer of Golemagg's two debuffs is an example of where the mechanics of the fight stay the same, but the boss becomes more challenging.

The quality of the raids is the single biggest factor on bringing and keeping players to the server. If the raids are piss easy, then raiders will get bored of the raid and the server.
 

Teppaz

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#39
Dire Maul WILL be available at launch.
I'm against customizing raids, but I think we should try to properly limit available items.
No, we're not going to rollback items to old stats.
But DM was not available back at first in MC, and I strongly believe we should not have access to DM, as it massively increases our stat.

For a holy paladin:
EP pre-raid without DM : 808
EP pre-raid with DM : 998 so +190
EP with DM+MC+Ony : 1110 so +112

You'll get way more out of DM that you'd get out of all MC and Onyxia...

One could argue that DM was released on March, 7th, and that while Majordomo was killed on February, 10th, Ragnaros was only killed on April, 25th, thus with people have DM gear available.

But if you want to easily reduce people power, just dont release DM. Half of any BiS list is there.
At least D2 bosses wont be.


PS : And while raiding can seem easy to everyone on paper, I'm confident most of the guilds wont clear raids that fast. Yes, top guilds will. Like on retail. Chromaggus was killed on the 2nd raiding night, right after the BWL patch.
 
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frederik

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#40
Hmm i always assumed this because dire maul was released after MC. But it's possible that it's available at launch.
I did not know that Dire Maul (my favorite Dungeon) was closed until Molten Core. Was there any event or something as it opened?
 

Ghostly

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#42
I guess it'd actually be a nice idea to increase the damage/health values of MC bosses by a bit. If it'll be too easy to progress (and with 1.12 talents, it will), people will get bored of it much quicker. And well, you know, even then people already called it Molten Bore. It's not the most fun raid, but it's the one that you will probably have to raid through the entire game. Might as well improve it a little.
 

Grimnarash

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#43
I guess it'd actually be a nice idea to increase the damage/health values of MC bosses by a bit. If it'll be too easy to progress (and with 1.12 talents, it will), people will get bored of it much quicker. And well, you know, even then people already called it Molten Bore. It's not the most fun raid, but it's the one that you will probably have to raid through the entire game. Might as well improve it a little.
Increasing health of mobs will make it even longer, and even more boring than before.
 

Lharts

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#44
Raising damage and hp only increased the entry gear requirement. NOTHING ELSE.
The encounters don't get harder. They are not even more challenging. They just get more gear dependent.

Stop mixing up "hard" with "requires better gear".

Just try running MC in full greens if you believe its too easy.
 

banezilla

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#45
MC/BWL are add on checks in most fights. The only thing the staff can do is increase hp, which doesn't add any level of difficulty to the raid.

You can't make something difficult without changing the mechanics of the fights, and KTM, decursive, bigwigs, and NECB has trivialized 90% of the raid content vanilla wow has to offer.
With proper threat mechanics more health will allow more time for players to pull aggro. If you reduced boss damage you reduce the tanks threat generation.

Yes,I agree addons made Wow too easy.
 
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impsy

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#46
Guys, I think we've raided these places a few times, don't be surprised if its not as hard as when you were 15 xD
 

Cpstabber

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#48
Rather change the mobs/bosses, change what you allow in your raid. Be accepting to hybrid classes, player preference. You will have a stronger guild community, and an overall happier player base.

Back when I played Vanilla retail we eventually rolledrolled onxy with 18 to 23 people on a regular basis after it had been on farm for awhile. Same with MC. (25 to 30) I loved this due to lack of compitition for gear when you bring fewer, and the feeling of accomplishment was great. You had to really get a strat down for these cases. Off tanks where CC was used due to lack of a specific class and what not.

Nobody is making you roll 40 cookie cutters deep. Turn your damage meter off, change to clean/decurse/CC counter to see who plays your class most efficiently, not most selfishly.

I promise it will me a wonderful experience.
 

Visuv

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#49
Rather change the mobs/bosses, change what you allow in your raid. Be accepting to hybrid classes, player preference. You will have a stronger guild community, and an overall happier player base.

Back when I played Vanilla retail we eventually rolledrolled onxy with 18 to 23 people on a regular basis after it had been on farm for awhile. Same with MC. (25 to 30) I loved this due to lack of compitition for gear when you bring fewer, and the feeling of accomplishment was great. You had to really get a strat down for these cases. Off tanks where CC was used due to lack of a specific class and what not.

Nobody is making you roll 40 cookie cutters deep. Turn your damage meter off, change to clean/decurse/CC counter to see who plays your class most efficiently, not most selfishly.

I promise it will me a wonderful experience.
I like that! props+
 
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