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    TwinStar team

Other K2 MC Bosses SUPER WEAK


New Member
Apr 14, 2016
So I watched the videos of [A] <Dice Roll>'s Majordomo and Ragnaros kills. Let me just say that, I am appalled at how weak these encounters are. Having raided in retail vanilla proper, I can tell just by watching the videos that, even with the best players in the world, there is NO chance that these bosses should have been defeated if they were at full retail strength. 12 Deaths by the time the first submerge was over on Rag and you easily win before 2nd submerge? No f'n way! Sheep all 4 healers on Majordomo and you expect me to believe that with dungeon blues and 2 weeks worth of MC runs of everything before domo that you have enough gear for your tanks to survive the 4 heavy hitters? Also for your healers to not go OOM trying to keep them up? Please. Something is VERY wrong here, and I for one, am very sad to see the truth about MC's current state on K2.
Hmm... I just watched the video as well and I too must admit that it looks a little to easy, compared to how it used to be. I do agree that something seems very wrong, but I doubt that you'll get any further than this without showing some real evidence of how MC is supposed to be.
somehow i remember this topic from 1 year ago

molten core was released in patch 1.1

1. loot had different stats, for example full tier1 mage set had +20 frost spelldamage before patch 1.5 - shit dps
2. dire maul wasnt released until patch 1.3 - no world buffs
3. darkmoon faire wasnt released until patch 1.6 - no world buffs
4. generally, the entire raid were using some kind of fire resistance gear on raggy - loss of dps
5. only 8 debuffs could be placed on a target until patch 1.7 - less optimization
6. talent trees for all classes looked a lot different/worse back then - less optimization
7. people generally took whatever talents they wanted - no optimization

it honestly doesn't make too much sense comparing kronos raids to vanilla because the patch is 1.12 here and there's 10 years of vanilla know-how that seperates us.

still that don't take away credit from whatever happens on kronos. we should just compare us to other guilds on kronos and that'll do.
Lets also just ignore the fact that people on private servers know how absolutely gamebreaking chugging major mana pots is for healers, effectively doubling the amount of mana they can use on domo and rag (2x majors).

Lets also ignore how powerful chugging greater fire prot pots is on rag, allowing your raid to use no FR and doing tons more dmg. I'll bet that Rag was around 20% when he submerged, which is really not that hard to burn through as long as your MT is up with ~5healers.

Take off your rose tinted glasses, a decade ago people didn't know jack shit about the game. That's coming from a retail vanilla shaman whos entire guilds healers stacked INT ffs and we still killed rag.
I fucking love threads like these.

If you got a photographic memory and can recall information from 10 years ago with 100% accuracy you are wasted playing a private server.
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You need to provide more information than just a "omg too easy" statement. Are the mobs hitting for less than they should? Do they have less health than they should? Do you have evidence to support those claims, or just a gut feeling?
He remembers exactly how it was on live servers 10 years ago and he is raiding with exactly the same amount of knowledge, buffs, gear and consumables as he had back then.

Kronos is clearly an easy mode baby server where the raids are nerfed far below what TRUE vanilla was like.

+1 this post if you are a true vanilla veteran and played the game when it was difficult.
You guys can say whatever you want. Fact is, before TBC came out there were sites that did plenty of number crunching which strongly suggested the use of pots and gave exact numbers on where you wanted/needed to be for each spec/class. "10 years of vanilla know-how" hasn't given us such an information gap between what was crunched back then and what we know now to differentiate what raiding these bosses was then compared to what I saw on the videos.

Is it a "gut feeling"? Well I don't have exact numbers, so technically yes. However speaking from a GM/Raid Leader perspective from back then to what I saw (and yes, we used the websites back then to get the best numbers we could, which, oh yeah, hasn't changed much - if at all) there's just no way that in blues and a few epics that these scenarios are even remotely realistic to what retail vanilla raiding was like. I vibrantly remember how hard domo's non-healers hit fully raid geared tanks even when being over geared for MC. I remember accidental wipes because a few people died (yes, they were horsing around and got themselves killed bc it was supposed to be "EZ Mode") before the first submerge on Rag and being short on DPS to finish him off. MC was such a joke to me that I was paying raid members to blow up specific people during Baron Geddon.

Taking this post too lightly and trying to comment is just trolling. There is a legit problem, don't ignore it.

Still no evidence of what you claim to be true. You ask for a change? Ok, what should be changed, what should it be changed to, and what is your proof?

Hearing your life story and "what things were like back in the day" is completely irrelevant.
The first rag kill most guilds did on this server had sons and deaths. As players acquired gear and familiarised themselves with the encounter kill times decreased.

You are literally babbling over your own memories and a desire to confirm to yourself that vanilla was hard.
You guys can say whatever you want.

I say if you can't even understand the huge difference between raiding in 1.2 and 1.12.1, you are bad to begin with. So yeah, Ragnaros was hard for crappy guild and crappy players, Blizzard understood this and they did wotlk for you.
Nobody's trying to ignore it, but you're presenting no evidence outside of your own memory to support your position.

Having raided MC on Kronos, I'd say it feels right. I'm a tank, and things hit me roughly as hard as I remember. Is it exact? Maybe not, my memory isn't that good, but it feels around where it should be. Luci shadow shocks for ~2k, and enraged Magmadar hits hard, Baron melees for ~2kish pre-resist.

As for Domo, the non-healer mobs don't hit hard....unless you enrage them. My old guild AoE'd domo back in Vanilla. Those mobs weren't some kind of unstoppable killing machine.
For god sake we used to stop the raid, break into multiple groups to mind control a mob in ubrs to buff the members with FR. Until we geared up well from bwl it became unnecessary. I'll soon raid and find out myself.
Ragnaros was hard for crappy guild and crappy players, Blizzard understood this and they did wotlk for you.

Kinda offtopic, but if you think heroic Lich King was easy, then you're mistaken.
I still have nightmares with people not properly soaking Vile Spirits, always getting unlucky with Val'kyrs not picking up Warlocks, people being tired (read: bad) and activating shadow trap on try #47 out of 50 for the week at 3 a.m., Soul Reaper 70k Shadowstrike damage very lethal to tanks if not mitigated by any kind of cooldown... the list goes on seemingly endlessly.
Kronos is not progressive vanilla like Nost was. We have full debuff slots, Dire Maul gear along with end patch items at naxx release for MC... lol so yeah it's a joke in difficulty
Fact is MC was never difficult. We just plain sucked a decade ago. Surgers were a nightmare IF half your raid fucked around and didn't stack. A joke if you stacked. Garr was HELL if tanks didn't pull adds away from the healers (boom, 5 dead healers). This even happened on Nostalrius if attention-spans lapsed.

Killing Ragnaros pre-sub in patch 1.1 was difficult though. Crappy talents, shitty gearing, people stacking, no widespread potion-spammage....

On Nostalrius, with proper boss-stats, and before DM, a good guild had 0-1 submerges.
Decent guilds had 1-2 submerges.

DM-patch changed this, with the addition of new and much better items to put in our BiS-lists.
Pre-BWL/ZG-patch improved caster-dps even more, with the addition of green "of Frozen Wrath, of Shadow Wrath, etc" items, which became BiS in many slots until the release of BWL.

Pre-DM a top-geared mage had in the ballpark of 150-200 +frost damage.
After these pre-BWL patches hit, he had 400-500, depending on lootluck. These patches also added most of the sexy caster-loot to MC, which didn't exist on launch, while also buffing the power of existing items.

On Nostalrius PvE, I had myself around +700 frost damage every raid because I stacked consumables, just for fun. Flask, elixirs, oil, food, etc... and this was before any ZG or BWL loot was available. A few MC epics, but mostly blues and greens.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but let me give some examples off the top of my head about how the BiS-items changed from release until the pre-BWL patch:

Head: From +18 dmg to +39 dmg.
Neck: From Int/spirit to +35 dmg.
Shoulders: From +18 dmg to +29 dmg.
Back: From +7 dmg to +20dmg.
Chest: From +35dmg to +40dmg.
Wrist: From Int/spirit to +19 dmg.
Hands: From +18 dmg to +27dmg.
Belt: From 1% hit to +18 dmg.
Weapon (2h or 1h+oh): From 1% crit / +11dmg to 1% crit / +75dmg.

These are estimates, but quite representative of how early Vanilla itemization was for most casters.

The bosses weren't harder in early vanilla. The talents, but mostly the gear, just plain sucked.
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what are these items?
D1 set was itemized worse than now. Tanks going into MC when the game first came out had stuff like: https://web.archive.org/web/20050518121650/http://www.thottbot.com/?i=18832

Draconic Infused Emblem, Spellweavers Turban werent items in the game:

Look how low Deathbringer's original damage was, Also LOL bloodfang hood giving chance to stun:

BIS healing neck Animated Chain Necklace not in the game, one of many later added:

No Diana's Pearl Necklace:

Maraudon wasnt in the game, Dire Maul not in the game, Scholomance was much harder, had more trash and the end bosses didnt drop any of the items they did (No Deathbone, no Cadavaerous)

Even look at the old PVP gear, which was added later in the game, compare this to what we have now:

Last but not least, look at old T1, first off LOL rend set bonus, also add up the amount of defense the set gives and get back to me:

Keep in mind there were no mob markers, addons, decursive, RAID UI, KTM, boss timers, youtube didnt exist, no one knew formulas, talents were shit and the respec cost went as high as 50, etc...
Looking at Realmplayers Raidstats i can see multiple rogues and warriors on this server pulling 1k+ dps in t1 content gear.

Pretty sure that isnt possible on correctly tuned bosses. Probably the same issue every private server has, wrong armor values and boss auto attack damage.

Edit: For all you people saying shit gear and shit guilds in vanilla. Well the guilds who cleared KT wasnt shit, here is a video of a FULLY DECKED NAXX GEARED warrior from a KT guild with DARKMOON BUFF, DRAGONSLAYER BUFF, ZANDALAR BUFF etc. pulling 1200 dps on patchverk in retail.


Just to be clear, he is using gear that is A LOT stronger than the gear warriors on this server have.. and he is also wearing buffs that im pretty sure not every warrior on most guilds on this server bother to get for MC. And he is pulling 100 dps more than a warrior does single target on K2 in the current level of content.
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Sorry, forgot the link: and it was 1200 dps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1zaSjdqsA

Get your facts straight...

If you are comparing his DPS to one of the TOP dps warriors on Kronos the first thing you need to check is fight length. This is a 5:15 min fight, and most bosses now wont last even 2 minutes.
So what a shorter fight length means? > The more you have up-time on your cooldowns during the fight the more dps you get on the meter.

Second but not less important? His skill level, i'm not saying he is bad (i don't play warrior and I'm not competent to judge) but the gap is 10 years from then! Have you considered that today's warriors are a just better?

For the records. 1200+ DPS on a 5:15 minute fight is nothing to be joked about. With this gear he would do 2k+ on BWL bosses.
Armor values on bosses are probably bugged on this server. It has been bugged on every single vanilla server i played on - untill the devs took a look at it and fixed it.

The server that did armor values on bosses the most correct, believe it or not, was Warsong 1.12 on feenix. On basicly every other server i played pre-raid bis rogues and warriors could easily pull 800 dps in raids.
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