Kronos 3: Drums of War

[Khrey]

​

Some ideas/suggestion for an ideal (improved (in my view)) vanilla server.

Only Molten Core and Onyxia as raids (Azuregos and Lord Kazzak as world bosses), but should either be buffed and/or epic items having MUCH lower drop chance, so it's just for the challange mostly or gathering of resources, I want epics to be rare.

That way battleground reputation rewards (example: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=19550) and craftable stuff (example: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=12784) would become less useless, no one uses stuffs like that atm (other then that one guy for nostalgic reasons) and people would bother to do dungeons more as it's not just about endgame raiding (and raid logging).

Players that gives honor should also give exp and drop a stackable token that can be traded in for WSG, AB or AV rep to encourage world pvp and give it some meaning other than just the feeling of ruining someone else's questing experience.

Rework the ranking system so it works more like reputation instead (no decay of rank or losing in progress of current rank), it would remove the punishing feel to take breaks from the game and allows you to play in a more healthy way.

Rework the rank rewards, for example rank 12-13 could be current rank 10 gear, (rank 10 gear could be the old lvl 58 version (example: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=16508))
Rank 14 weapons could be the blue ones (old version?) example: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=24313 / https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=24314 etc.

Remove dishonorable kill, make civilians passive and unattackable to at least not discourage town raids.

Town Raiding suggestion

Arena/Brawl suggestion.

Turning in 3x of any bg mark should give gold or silver.

Dungeon bosses should have 80% increased movement speed (so they run as fast as a player with 80% sprint).
No more easy kiting and soloing Dire Maul tribute as a hunter.

Enchanting low level gear with high level enchants should not be possible.

5g respec cap just like we have on Kronos now.

So yea, just some thoughts I've had lately #hypevid

 

[gly]

At least 4x experience rate and I might consider playing WoW again rather than being a forum whore

 

[Khrey]

At least 4x experience rate and I might consider playing WoW again rather than being a forum whore

Yea but I would hope that the feeling of having to rush to 60 would go away if the main focus is not necessarily on just endgame raiding. So you would have just as fun as a low level doing world pvp in Ashenvale, working on professions, perhaps getting rep with wsg for nice rewards (18 - 60) etc.

 

[gly]

Yea but I would hope that the feeling of having to rush to 60 would go away if the main focus is not necessarily on just endgame raiding. So you would have just as fun as a low level doing world pvp in Ashenvale, working on professions, perhaps getting rep with wsg for nice rewards (18 - 60) etc.

You can still play world pvp in Ashenvale on a realm with an increased xp rate because it's not like those zones will be deserted. The arbitrary figure of '4x' that I came up with isn't too much that the whole thing is gimped either.
The chance of getting some low level WSG games running is a very high price to pay for a stifled endgame PvP scene where people lose interest because of the severely limited choice of characters/factions to play.

The suggestions you've made in this topic work towards a utopian version of 1.12 WoW that actually features challenging content and might even encourage people to improve their gameplay, which is a fundamental missing part of the original game, so it seems especially pointless to force that old fashioned time sink of the boar-killing exercise upon prospective players.

I totally understand the appeal to the 'Blizzlike' levelling in vanilla WoW, but I've done this once during the original run of the game (and I guess once more on private servers if I combine my various attempts, lol), so I'm baffled that there could possibly be such an overwhelming majority in favour of the grind that there isn't a single serious boosted-XP 1.12 project around anymore (and don't say VG). There must be a demand for a progressive vanilla WoW project (and I don't mean that in the sense of bullshit PvE timelines)...

 

[Kamchak]

First of all, most of these suggestions simply can't work.

Secondly, I suggest this topic to be locked before it turns into flame war.

Answering original question: if the server is officially tries to be 'blizz-like', then the only possible ideal server will be complete 'blizz-clone' without any slightest change to the in-game content. Out-of-game content like custom launcher, no subscription or website services (that do not conflict with in-game content rule) are fine, but there ought to be no custom changes to in-game content.

 

[nimeralos]

If we're to talk seriously, then of course there's a room for a discussion. But it's a dream thread, so please don't be so sceptical

 

[Khrey]

I have a dream!
Stay a while and listen.

I remember killing wolves in Silverpine when I see yellow names appearing in the distance further up the road, I hid behind a tree and see a fairly large raid of alliance players riding past on slow mounts,
some walked or had travel form.
They were on their way to attack Undercity, it was an epic moment, we had to call in help from Orgrimmar to help us defend it.

This is a screenshot from before honor/bg system was added, you simply attacked a town to stir some shit up, most people that was interested in pvp or at least defending their towns was in the worlddefence channel.
Town raids kinda died when they added dks, because there would always be someone in the group/raid that would kill a civilian (sometimes by mistake by aoeing).

I think it was Hohenheim (or Keltor) that won the pvp event tabard on my server, he got it by killing alliance in and around Crossroads (on a PVE server mind you).
Spyeyes got the server first rank 14 (at least for horde), he would go defend Crossroads while waiting for wsg queue pop while ranking (you queued at the portal back then)
... Seems like you also could use Battle Standards outside bgs back then (combat log).

There was always world pvp going on, even on pve servers, world felt alive and people weren't that super geared and powerful in general, unlike now when most people are bis geared,
it kinda ruins the new player experience also, everyone wants to get to 60 because that's when the "game starts" (garrison raids), and when you finally get to 60 it's hard to get dungeon groups
and in pvp you get to face DAOI t2,5 lifegiving gem wars, gl and have fun.

 

[dms]

Make K3 on patch 3.3.5.

Now before everyone scoffs this off as a ridiculous unblizzlike, stupid custom/fun server idea, I will try to explain why I think, considering the current vanilla server scene, this is the best idea.

Most people play vanilla for the nostalgia feeling or because they like the level 60 mechanics of pvp and maybe to some extent in pve as well. The not catered to casuals experience, the "secret" on use items like skull and other trinkets/consumes that give edge in pvp/pve. The overall content regarding leveling and endgame of vanilla just appeals greatly to people and the hype has been real for the past few years as well, but I guess its the combination of all of these why so many people want to play level 60 content in wow instead retail/other expansions.

So we have established some of the reasons why people want to play vanilla and lvl 60 content. Let's also acknowledge that there a lot of things inherently flawed in vanilla:

-Vanilla is a fucking chore. Yes I don't like they way retail is just catered towards casuals but for example preparing 6 hours for a 2h raid every week is annoying
-Playing 10+hours a day for 3 months to get the best pvp gear. Yeah real fun, even the most joyful guy, Sipko started showing serious signs of mental breakdown and this was when the population/competition on ranking was nonexistent, Hi sandfarmers.
-Some of the mechanics like sheep/sap/freezing traps lasting 30 seconds and other stupid/op stuff
-Leveling over and over again on a new server to experience the endgame x1 1-60 is not epic anymore it is an annoying chore.

These are just some of the points and I understand that people will disagree on these, have different preferences and tell me to not play vanilla then. I know this sounds like casual player whining, but this is how I feel a lot of the community not just Kronos players, feel about the flaws of vanilla. I don't want to play a World of Warcraft streamlined and catered to casuals like retail is and I don't want the vanilla chore, I want vanilla 2.0.

Why a modified version of 3.3.5 client is a good idea and why it is what _most_ (not all) of the community unconsciously wants?:
-Wotlk=faster, but not too fast leveling 1-60
-Improved mechanics on cc abilities and a lot of other things
-Revamped honor system. Yes I think the values should be tweaked in a way that you wouldn't have a full set in a few weeks, but I still think this would be a major improvement to the vanilla ranking system. You would still be rewarded for playing more or having a premade.
-Viable off-specs (ret pallies, smite priests etc.)
-Client patch 3.3.5 is easier for the devs to code stuff
-Ability ratings instead of crit/hit % for example
-Other overall improvements to the UI/mechanics and other stuff that wotlk patch brought to the game.

Implementation:
-a custom patch or modified client or some other modification so that the talents/abilities/items are modified to match vanilla/lvl 60 specifications

There are a few servers that have successfully done this and are working great, the problem with them is that there is no population, partly due to having no hype and even worse marketing than Kronos and partly because of the autistic community uproar of "muh blizzlike" or "lol shit funserver".

The private server scene in general has already evolved pretty far from the days when private servers in general were considered shit and always buggy. We are now starting to move beyond the point where custom private servers shouldn't be considered shitty and buggy either. Kronos already has a lot improvements to vanilla like custom re-spec costs. Time to take the next step to vanilla 2.0.

Bring in the facepalms.

- - - Updated - - -

To answer Khrey, yeah I guess that's the experience that a lot of the community would want too.

The problem is that game is not new anymore so much is known about it so people just don't do random shit anymore, like exploring a new part of the map is not as exciting as it used to be and there is no way to change the thinking or attitudes of the people back to that era just because the game is old.

The only possible way I can think of is to implement custom changes to promote world pvp, like some objective to control area like felwood so only your guild would be able to collect black lotus/plagubloom. NOT BLIZZLIKE.

 

[gly]

I can't even get my head around all the new abilities that came about with TBC whenever I tried to play that on private servers so I can't imagine how much more confusing WotLK will be :laugh:

It's a good suggestion, Dms, and a good discussion to have. If a WoW project proudly announced something like that, with the same motivations as you've written, I'd probably try it out, but you're absolutely right about the stigma that comes with "funservers".

The first step needs to be establishing that there's actually a demand for a proper version of this game. It's not inconceivable that the vast majority of people in the world who play WoW aren't looking for anything more than Farmville with marginally better visuals, but it's nice to think that the thousands of people who went straight to Nostalrius/Elysium from retail WoW after its aggressive web campaign might simply not be aware that 1.12 can actually be better. I don't know how to go about solving that but the perfect vanilla WoW format is useless without other humans to play with.

 

[Kamchak]

There are a few servers that have successfully done this and are working great, the problem with them is that there is no population...

What makes you think potential Kronos 3 will be any different?

Also, TwinStar has Hyperion for WotLK expansion.

 

[dms]

What makes you think potential Kronos 3 will be any different?

Also, TwinStar has Hyperion for WotLK expansion.

Well they recently got a community manager, the server already has an established reputation and it's all under twinstar so I have my hopes up for future marketing and hype creation. + Even though every server has it's bugs and the staff act really weird sometimes, Kronos is still the best and most reliable server imo.

Also, thanks while I do think that wotlk was pretty much the best time for pvp, at least arenawise before shadowmourne. It is the lvl 60 gameplay and mechanics that for some odd reason I enjoy the most.

 

[ziel]

So you want something like nostalgeek French server(mb wrong name can't remember exact name)

 

[faking]

-Playing 10+hours a day for 3 months to get the best pvp gear. Yeah real fun, even the most joyful guy, Sipko started showing serious signs of mental breakdown and this was when the population/competition on ranking was nonexistent, Hi sandfarmers.

Pardon for replying from another account but a friend brought this to my attention and I'm not at home.. hi, I'm Sipko.


FWIW, I slept about 2-4h while ranking and running a company. Yes, I got cranky when I discovered the majority of PvP is done by account sharing or people taking shifts. Sadly, if you ban those players then there'd be no PvP.


For those that don't know, Kronos is my first and probably only World of Warcraft experience.
Ranking was foul not because of the system but because of the low population and the toxic community within it.


The fact that only one person can be in bracket 1 causes all the problems.


I ran the Ranking Mafia horde side successfully because I had to "cheat" in another way (collusion and setting next week's brackets before reset) as I refused to share my account because it's against the fucking rules.. rules that are not enforced.


Managing is stressful as it is within a Guild.
Imagine managing PvP community with players who have poor English across multiple Guilds.


Adjust the bracket calculations for low population and you'll spend less time worrying about honour and more time about having fun in PvP.


PvP is fun as fuck. I'll queue again soon enough casually but I focus more on World PvP now.


The bracket calculations make sense for "blizzlike population".
Kronos does not have a "blizzlike population" so mimicking does not make sense.


Thank you for your time.


-- Sipko

 

[Ahlaundoh]

PvP is fun as fuck.
-- Sipko

lmao yeah he mustve gone crazy to believe this

 

[Spazztastic]

Cheers sipko, quality post you cool guy


now fite me

 

[Khrey]

I slept about 2-4h while ranking and running a company.
[...]
Ranking was foul not because of the system but because of the low population and the toxic community within it.

Yea, I donno, imagine if any other part of the game worked even remotely like the rank system, like only top guild with most hours grinding trash gets to loot items, or like de-rank in guild rank for going away on the weekend -dkp!

Got exams, other important stuffs to do atm? well sux to be you! think this is a game?! #PUNISH!

I ranked to 12 in vanilla, 11 on ED and 10 on Kronos, sad.

 

[ziel]

Toxic community? Where?

 

[lanevegame]

​

​

Please finish this Kronos 3 title art, I wanna see it full colored! :w00t:

 

[Benjey]

- remove rank11-rank14 and the rewards completely
key to an healthy pvp scene is to reduce the premade pug stomping to a minimum and keep pugs queuing. if the honor system stays the same then there is no need to run premades 24/7 to reach rank10. the nolife tryhards have even less incentive to do it because the overpowered r11+ gear is not available. queue should priorize premade vs premade games.

- buff pre-naxx raids
buff hp or hp&damage to compensate debuff slots, available items (titanic leggings, spellweaver's, ...) and knowledge. numbers are up for debate (MC+BWL ~20%, AQ40 ~15%, something like that?)

- keep QoL changes (line of sight, reduced respec cost)

- stricter multiboxing rules. it's a negative experience seeing someone level with 5chars on follow

- shorter timeline

 

[nimeralos]

1) Rework PvP completely - more wPvP, more fun, less grind, less incentives to do frustrating things.
2) Buff raids, nerf raid rewards.

In other words, invent a new game.

 

[Khrey]

1) Rework PvP completely - more wPvP, more fun, less grind, less incentives to do frustrating things.

2) Buff raids, nerf raid rewards.
In other words, invent a new game.

Yea, basically.

Would be cool if all aspects of the game was somewhat balanced in terms of item power level, and much lower then what we have today.

I think that will make pvp more fun in general if you don't get 1-2 shotted, especially as a new player,
so you feel like you can contribute with something without feeling like a useless critter.

Seen it so many times when a freshly dinged 60 joins for WSG and first get yelled at by (some of) his teammates for joining with shitty gear but then also absolutely destroyed by the bis raid geared enemy players.

Also I encourage you all to watch this:
[video=youtube;LYxU7pIJHhk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYxU7pIJHhk[/video]

It's very long but interesting to hear what Blizzard had in mind, they wanted you to not really notice the level bar, because there would be so much stuffs going on, they spent so much time on polishing and designing the world (like making 50 versions of a tree before settling down for one that would represent that area) yet we just rush past it all with quest helper to get to 60 to raid so we can get as powerful as possible.

Like I personally don't feel like leveling alts atm, there is nothing exciting going on in the world, and I would be so far behind gear-wise once I hit 60 so it just don't feel worth it.

 

[lanevegame]

Very nice documentary. :w00t:

 

[Khrey]

Very nice documentary. :w00t:

Aye! I found This very interesting, but the part (later) about fishing being fun and unique...... yeeeee.

Also This "Endgame not only about raiding" plz.



Edit: Just an idea I had, might be enough with the token drop idea I had previously to encourage world pvp, but just putting it out there.

Town Raiding

Once all npcs have been killed (expect civilians) a flag should appear in the middle of the town that can be clicked (like AV towers/graveyards) and after a set amount of time (long enough for defenders to fly there to defend) the town is "destroyed" and burns! (just like AV towers).
Everyone of the attacking faction that is nearby the town gets an honor boost, and if the town is successfully protected, the opposite faction that is nearby gets an honor boost.

 

[sushibarf]

Since everyone is talking about Kronos 3 needing to have PvE, I guess I have to come up with my own:

Kronos 4

Motivation to play: Pure PvP - Hop on to play BG's /duels instead of sitting 2h in queue or 4h in raids and having to grind days to gear up your char.

- Base = 'Kronos Beta' / Test Server
- Instant 60
- Everyone is Rank 11
- No dungeons, No raids, No Herbing/Mining nodes and unnessecary NPC's
- No gear above a certain itemlvl (T1 + Rank 10 max)
- Max professions
- Max weapon skills
- Free talent reset
- Instant CD reset after duels
- No multiqueue
- Ban certain items and consumables in BG's

There is a server out there that has these features but is way too buggy and hands out T3 which makes PvP even more unbalanced than it already is.

Seeing that there are still tons of people playing there means there is a demand on pure PvP vanilla servers.

Kronos has the scripts and bug fixes to get a monopoly on that.

Ok enough dreaming for today. Back to my cave. See you in a few years.

 

[Khrey]

Updated the first post a bit.

Rework the rank rewards, for example rank 12-13 could be current rank 10 gear, (rank 10 gear could be the old lvl 58 version (example: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=16508))
Rank 14 weapons could be the blue ones (old version?) example: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=24313 / https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=24314 etc.

Should be more balanced I think, and without feeling like you are removing too much from the game.