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New Kronos III Timeline and Itemization

nimeralos

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Aug 26, 2014
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#27
worldpvp dies with time and without BG rewards it will be alive at server start time.

Goal of "not introducing pvp rewards at server start" is to make pvp more active in open world instead of just pvp battlegrounds
No PvP rewards = no reason for PvP. Some people PvP for fun, most just gear up and wait for PvP to be worth the time. If they introduce honor system without BGs, it could be interesting. But no honor system at all is weird and actually hurts PvP IMO.
 

Mufug

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Jan 13, 2018
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#28
No PvP rewards = no reason for PvP. Some people PvP for fun, most just gear up and wait for PvP to be worth the time. If they introduce honor system without BGs, it could be interesting. But no honor system at all is weird and actually hurts PvP IMO.
Well technically it can be done. Again Elysium did it, withholding their honor system till 1.4 like in retail and then introducing BGs in 1.5. The battlemasters are actually not there on their server as those came later meaning people have to trek to the BG portals like in the old days and party up or look for people there. Will be funny seeing zone chat filled with high levels in ashenvale LFG for a battleground
 

Cadingel

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Sep 13, 2016
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Germany
#29
And everyone will start with a new character ? Or you will be able to import from other realms ? I couldn't find an answer to this, because it's so trivial, but I'm dumb, so pls answer. xd
Fresh, clean start.
Everyone is starting with a new character.
 

varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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#30
"No PvP rewards = no reason for PvP" Go away then, you obviously don't enjoy the game so get outta here please. Some of us actually enjoy PvP without MUH EPICS. Some of the best pvp in retail vanilla happened before the honor system with the southshore vs tarren mill epic battles, BUT THERE WERE NO REWARDS, THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THAT APPARENTLY.
 

nimeralos

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#31
"No PvP rewards = no reason for PvP" Go away then, you obviously don't enjoy the game so get outta here please. Some of us actually enjoy PvP without MUH EPICS.
Sorry, it was a bad sentence. I mean, I know. Some of PvPers do enjoy epics though. If you want to have a closed PvP community of "pure PvPers", it's fine, but you need to realize that without honor system, there'll be less PvP than with it.

I see no reason to prefer pre-1.4 to 1.4-1.5; it seems to me that there would clearly be more wPvP in 1.4-1.5 than in pre-1.4. Do you disagree?
Some of the best pvp in retail vanilla happened before the honor system with the southshore vs tarren mill epic battles, BUT THERE WERE NO REWARDS, THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THAT APPARENTLY.
It won't ever be that great again. Same as AQ War Effort wasn't much of a H Y P E on Kronos. No reason to contribute if you know that AQ opens eventually.

But of course, there was a reason - people were having fun.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
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#32
I've been through several fresh starts over the last 2+ years for vanilla. It ALWAYS goes like this with traditional patch order:

Server launches. Everyone levels like mad. Pvp happens but isn't that bad across all zones. Honor systems eventually gets patched in. THE WORLD GOES INSANE! Ganking all over the place. Some zones nearly unplayable for leveling due to high level players ganking grays because of the animosity generated by the progression mechanic. Open world is not a BG where you are forced to engage with near level opponents so the honor system becomes nothing more than a farming mechanic against lower leveling players.

As a pvp system it is a complete failure. It always has been a complete failure yet these admins insist upon "Blizz-like" despite faced with the direct metrics proving the negative impact of the system. It offers progression gains to those risking the least with no protection for the defenseless. The system has about the worst impact on this game's community yet people continue to defend it blindly.

It isn't a matter if it promotes pvp. It's a matter of what type of pvp it's promotes. I speak of the direct observable result of the system, proven by metrics time and time again. To argue over it's effects alternatively is ignorance of fact.
 

Mufug

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Jan 13, 2018
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#33
I've been through several fresh starts over the last 2+ years for vanilla. It ALWAYS goes like this with traditional patch order:

Server launches. Everyone levels like mad. Pvp happens but isn't that bad across all zones. Honor systems eventually gets patched in. THE WORLD GOES INSANE! Ganking all over the place. Some zones nearly unplayable for leveling due to high level players ganking grays because of the animosity generated by the progression mechanic. Open world is not a BG where you are forced to engage with near level opponents so the honor system becomes nothing more than a farming mechanic against lower leveling players.

As a pvp system it is a complete failure. It always has been a complete failure yet these admins insist upon "Blizz-like" despite faced with the direct metrics proving the negative impact of the system. It offers progression gains to those risking the least with no protection for the defenseless. The system has about the worst impact on this game's community yet people continue to defend it blindly.

It isn't a matter if it promotes pvp. It's a matter of what type of pvp it's promotes. I speak of the direct observable result of the system, proven by metrics time and time again. To argue over it's effects alternatively is ignorance of fact.
You just reek of slow leveler and someone who gets fucked hard by gankers because you follow leveling guides, which as a result send you into parts of the zone that are heavy with activity.
 

Pengalo

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May 22, 2015
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#34
World buffs (i.e Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer, DMF and all other world buffs currently not available in Naxxramas on Kronos) will not be available in any raid content for the first month after its release. After the first month, world buffs will then be enabled for use inside.

With these changes and the streamlined timeline, we expect raid content on Kronos III to be significantly harder.


ever thought of disabling them permanently like you do in naxx? i found this one of the best decisions you made for k1.
 

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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161
#35
ever thought of disabling them permanently like you do in naxx? i found this one of the best decisions you made for k1.
How about an option ? before anyone enters the raid the leader can type in a command to enable the difficulty or ignore it and play normally however if the group plays with it disabled they'r raid is recorded in a different section called "challenge mode" or something ? :) that way people have the option and in the end its only for showing off ;)

command could be something like ".challenge on" and if regretting then all have to be outside before typing ".challenge off", boss killed under challenge conditions counts toward challenge leaderboard and other counts towards normal ? just a thought ^^
 

Kamchak

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Sep 12, 2016
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#36
...The leader can type in a command to enable the difficulty or ignore it and play normally...
Well, we already have '.join'... I wonder when proper LFG and Battle Pets will come up.
 
Last edited:

varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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#37
I'm a huge fucking fan of no wbuffs ever in a 40man raid. It is amazing to have the opportunity to post a personal best record on every boss attempt instead of just 1 raid a month during DMF. It's amazing to still be able to compete if you die to something random. I would be over the moon if kronos implemented no wbuffs at all, but I'm pretty happy they are at least eliminating it for the first month of progression.
 

Boatmage

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Aug 19, 2015
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#38
True about world buffs. Even the most hardcore raider loses interest in the raid if he dies (especially during random trash) and loses world buffs. I was there to see "pro players" logging on a second account, as soon as the tank died to save their precious buffs. Also, it was really nice getting back home 5 minutes before the first pull in Naxx, instead of having to log in the game an hour earlier and be in a constant fear of getting ganked at felwood.

Just get rid of them completely or make them usable only outside of raids.
 

Pengalo

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May 22, 2015
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#39
True about world buffs. Even the most hardcore raider loses interest in the raid if he dies (especially during random trash) and loses world buffs. I was there to see "pro players" logging on a second account, as soon as the tank died to save their precious buffs. Also, it was really nice getting back home 5 minutes before the first pull in Naxx, instead of having to log in the game an hour earlier and be in a constant fear of getting ganked at felwood.

Just get rid of them completely or make them usable only outside of raids.
exactly my thoughts...

i just think it improves the whole raiding experience for above reasons by a lot!

if you could take this into consideration i would appreciate.
 

Preparefqq

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Apr 27, 2016
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#40
Seems like we will rush pvp ranks coz items from raids and dungeons will be bad. But r14 weapons and r10-13sets will be good af.
 

Mufug

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Jan 13, 2018
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#42
Problem is a lot of low end guilds who try to raid need those buffs as a buffer. The people who have rotations and attacks and wahtnot down to a T will have no problem, it just means things go down slower.

WoW was built around these buffs being part of the game and we've played the game itself to hell and back.

in all honesty leave em be
 

Pengalo

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May 22, 2015
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#43
Problem is a lot of low end guilds who try to raid need those buffs as a buffer. The people who have rotations and attacks and wahtnot down to a T will have no problem, it just means things go down slower.

WoW was built around these buffs being part of the game and we've played the game itself to hell and back.

in all honesty leave em be
guilds that are in need of worldbuffs to clear content are probably the type of guild that wont even bother to get them in the first place. and if they do its even worse if they wipe 15minutes into the raid.

i can think of so many reasons why worldbuffs should be disabled. the only argument to keep them is "blizzlike".
 

bl4ckc0d3r

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May 22, 2015
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#44
i can think of so many reasons why worldbuffs should be disabled. the only argument to keep them is "blizzlike".
Speedruns and records. For my guild in particular, the point of playing is to own the game as much as possible and to beat all competition on both this server and other servers. Disabling world buffs puts us at a great disadvantage compared to guilds from other servers. For example, we would like to do a proper world buffed Naxxramas speedrun before K1 dies, but we need world buffs for that to be competitive and in order to completely beat the competition by a large margin.

Some people here may not care about what I described, but it is very important to us. No need to even mention that it promotes Kronos and brings players to the realm when you have high performing guilds.
 

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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#45
I am both for & against world buffs

The best option overall is the 1 month delay, that one month the guilds that truly deserve to be among the 100 first will get is and after that the rest will fight for the remaining 100 ranked spots and then the speed competition begins.
 

Mufug

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Jan 13, 2018
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#46
guilds that are in need of worldbuffs to clear content are probably the type of guild that wont even bother to get them in the first place. and if they do its even worse if they wipe 15minutes into the raid.

i can think of so many reasons why worldbuffs should be disabled. the only argument to keep them is "blizzlike".
Again you're not thinking about guilds that want to raid, but just barely scrape by even with world buffs. You say you can list many but the reality I feel is that there is only "it lets the top guilds clear quicker" is the major one. The top guilds will always be that, the top guilds. Without world buffs they'll just go slower.

There is no real reason to keep them our or delay them other than "Things will die slower". The buffs and how they occur should remain vanilla, let raiding guilds choose whether or not they want them.
 

Kamchak

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Sep 12, 2016
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#47
Speedruns and records. For my guild in particular, the point of playing is to own the game as much as possible and to beat all competition on both this server and other servers. Disabling world buffs puts us at a great disadvantage compared to guilds from other servers.
Firstly, Kronos has nothing to do with other servers. Any reason that starts with 'another server has it' ought not to apply here. Secondly, each private server has their own set of defects that put you and the other similar players at an advantage or at a disadvantage.
 

varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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#48
People outside of kronos don't give a shit about your dps or clears, the servers are too different. You really think Anathema, Lightbringer, or Elysium will give a shit when bloodthirsts here hit ~30% harder with the exact same gear? You really think people were impressed with your BWL speedrun abusing the invis that doesn't work on other servers?

The servers are too different and people know that. Lets not have wbuffs just so this 1 guild can pretend to be top. This server is a joke on every other server because the way dmg works here lets you do far more with the exact same rotations and gear. You do realize ED on this server is WAY overpowered compared to other servers, and you guys abuse the ever living shit out of that weapon. NO ONE CARES, feel free to jump on their discords and ask.

Lets focus on this server, and on this server the majority of people don't want wbuffs in naxx.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
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#49
Kronos 3 will be the most difficult "version" of Vanilla that TwinStar will put out, because of how they will be gating items based on their original patch release. Sure, they will still release with their final 1.12 stats, but all of these items were available at launch on K1/K2. Combine that with the fact that we're now going to get 8 debuff slots until the ZG patch (K1/K2 were 16 from launch day).

I firmly believe that eliminating world buffs (permanently) from raid content is a silent promotion of "bring the player, not the class". I would argue that it would benefit the tryhards more than anything (which I think is a good thing) as it would put a larger focus on personal consumables and help to filter out anyone just coming along for welfare epics.

Another silent benefit (imo)...but tryhard Hunters would be competitive PvE dps since world buffs never buffed ranged attack power anyway (huge oversight in game design from Blizzard).

I would still like to see a larger portion of the community discuss this, similar to how we talked about Naxx difficulty in the months leading to release on K1/K2.
 

Pengalo

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May 22, 2015
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#50
Speedruns and records. For my guild in particular, the point of playing is to own the game as much as possible and to beat all competition on both this server and other servers. Disabling world buffs puts us at a great disadvantage compared to guilds from other servers. For example, we would like to do a proper world buffed Naxxramas speedrun before K1 dies, but we need world buffs for that to be competitive and in order to completely beat the competition by a large margin.

Some people here may not care about what I described, but it is very important to us. No need to even mention that it promotes Kronos and brings players to the realm when you have high performing guilds.
Ok i give you that one. i wasnt aware that you care so much for cross server competition. i always compared myself, and i assume this is what most people do, to other people on kronos as they play by the same rules.


Again you're not thinking about guilds that want to raid, but just barely scrape by even with world buffs. You say you can list many but the reality I feel is that there is only "it lets the top guilds clear quicker" is the major one. The top guilds will always be that, the top guilds. Without world buffs they'll just go slower.

There is no real reason to keep them our or delay them other than "Things will die slower". The buffs and how they occur should remain vanilla, let raiding guilds choose whether or not they want them.
why would i care if the best guild clears BWL in 35 or 24 minutes? if they clear it 3 days or 2 weeks after release? i will watch the video, i will probably be amazed at the level of preparation and organisation displayed. same as we all were with naxx first clears. on the other hand it does not have any impact on my ingame experience so why would i care how fast they kill or clear something??

i have been in a good enough, though less tryhard guild. we have always cleared things quick enough. i just feel like world buffs have a huge potential for frustration. if you die early in raid, if you get ganked, or sometimes if something bugs out.

as said for bad guilds its even a bigger burden as they will prepare 1.5h to have 1 fully buffed shot at a bosskill. if they fuck up the frustration is massive. and yes, bad guilds and new guilds will be more than 1 month behind in content.
 
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