• Dear Guest,

    You're browsing our forum as a Guest meaning you can only see a portion of the forum in read-only mode.
    To view all forum nodes and be able to create threads/posts please register or log-in with your existing account.

    TwinStar team

Kronos staff - what are you thinking with x1 rates?

Status
Not open for further replies.

KraunZ

New Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Likes
9
Location
Sweden
#1
... don't get me wrong, the server seems promising etc... but setting the experience-rate to x1 is like shooting yourselves in the foot. Why?

Allow me to explain why this is a really bad decision:

First off: PvPer's, pvpers wont level x1 rates on a server they never even heard of (But Kronos is hyped!) No the server is not hyped at all, i know most active pvp players who play vanilla servers. I recognize pretty much all the names on the forums here, it's the same people who try every single server that comes out. And none of you can say that you have ever played on a x1 rate server with good PvP. Sure it's good for a few months but it will die slowly, just like all other servers. And most people i know had never even heard of kronos before i directed them here.

"Who cares about PvP? It's only like 5% of the people who play wow that cares about PvP."

Everyone should care about pvp, even if you aren't a hardcore pvper. Any server needs PvP to keep the stream going.

Day one 1: Server launch & people start leveling slowly with the x1 rates. if you are lucky you will have 500 people on launch, half of these won't even make it to 60(Judging from any x1 server launch) Keep in mind that alot of people will be in a "wait and see" mind. Which basically means they will log on once in a while and see if the server is growing before they put effort into leveling.

After a few months you will have maybe, maybe 100 people at level 60, now it's time for gear farming.

First off you need to farm 5m instances for a couple of weeks. This is the fun part imo, gearing a character from scratch.

Fast forward to raiding content: People don't need to farm 5m instances anymore and it's time to get them epics. A normal guild raids 3 times per week. Lets say you raid on a sunday and the next raid is wednesday. On a server with no PvP what will you do the next 3 days? (All professions 300/300 and you already got your epic mount.)

This is what will happen: People will log on for raids and log out after raids, the server will be stale without having BG's running. People will sit afk in IF/Orgrimmar all day waiting for a miracle to happen. We have all seen this before.

Sure some servers with x1 rates still got BG's running but these servers have been active for years. Just face it, people are tired of leveling. Just because some pvper leveled x1 rates on server X doesn't mean he/she will do it again on server Y.

Your best decision would be to make it atleast x7 rates.

It's naive to expect anything good to come out of x1 rates on a server with really low marketing.
 

Lharts

Authorized
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Likes
417
#2
A small example. The two server with the best headstart both were not 1*.
Q-Gaming -> 1k players at launch, highrate
ScriptCraft -> instant 49... and highered rates

Both servers peaked at over 1k players right at launch.
Please do not take ED as an example, cause the only reason ED had a 500 player start was cause alot players from Warsong started out there new.
All 1* rate vanilla servers that ever existed were always lower populated then their higher rated competitors. Fact.
 

KraunZ

New Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Likes
9
Location
Sweden
#3
Please do not take ED as an example, cause the only reason ED had a 500 player start was cause alot players from Warsong started out there new.
Exactly, and at that time Warsong peaked 5000-6000 players on sundays. And even with that kind of community ED barely had 500 players at launch. This is not rocket science, use your brains and you will predict the outcome.

And before someone mention "quality before quantity" Kronos already has quality and needs quantity and to get that you need higher xp rates.
 
Last edited:

Stormling

New Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Likes
74
Location
Sweden
#4
I actually agree with all of this. Kronos will have a hard time with x1 XP and the launch of Warlords of Draenor coming up aswell.

What's the argument from the staff on this matter? Why did you decide on x1?

x1 Attracts a certain type of players, but higher rates attract MORE players, that's a fact.

I love to level on x1 but most people really don't, the population will suffer severly from this.

I'm talking from experience.
 

Oid

New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Likes
1
#5
population on a new server highly depends on the xp rates.
average player will log to test the server, see the 1x rates and the 200 people on line and simply quit or put his leveling on hold without ever getting the chance to test the superior scripts.
population brings more population, this has always been the case on private servers and will always be. people obviously prefer a less superior server that is healthy population-wise than a bug free perfectly scripted server with 200 people on line.
forcing 1x rates simply scares people away
hope there is still time to give a second thought to this decision.
 

Berriliun

New Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Likes
3
Location
America (CST)
#6
Personally I will not play a server with higher than 1x rate. I really enjoy the community that comes from leveling at 1x.

However I would like to see the server flourish population wise, but I will not be playing on anything but a 1x server.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Likes
3
#7
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems there are two scenarios to choose from:


Scenario 1:

Blizzlike XP-rate - mid/low population with a few dedicated players, the people who claim to "enjoy" leveling from 1-60 for the tenth time are kept happy for a while untill they realize they have no one to play with, having more than one active raiding guild on each faction becomes unlikely, server is more or less only ever "alive" during peak hours, both raiding and PvP-wise, causing potential new players to adopt the "I'll wait for better times" mentality (let's face it, this is where the ship usually starts sinking)

Scenario 2:

Higher XP-rate - most likely a higher population at the server launch with room for more than one active guild on each faction, both raiding and PvP is possible around the clock, making it more likely that people recommend the server to friends and other players thus resulting in possibilities for further growth
 

RP80

New Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Likes
1
#8
For mer personally a boosted exp rate destroys alot of my enjoyment. It doesn't feel like WoW vanilla. Everything is out of sync and there is no reason to try and get good gear while lvling since it get replaced so fast. Not to mention that my character will not hold much value to me. It will feel like a "cheat character". No way I'm going to take the time to gear and play such a character at max level.

But I wish Kronos all the success, it looks like the people behind it are serious. So if boosted exp is the way to go do it. What I will do then is just probably reroll faction on the x1 server I'm playing. Really looking forward to a fresh start so to speak and doing that will somewhat fullfill that. Would have been 10 times more fun though on a new server( and a server that looks that it will have so much stuff fixed that usually don't work on private servers). Nothing can compare to starting a new toon on a just opened server where everyone is at an even field.
 

Aieris

Authorized
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Likes
303
#9
Kronos 1 had 1x xprates, Kronos 2 had optional 1x-7x xprates and end of both was the same - low population. I understand both sides, slow and fast leveling have for everyone its + and -. For that, Kronos 2 had optional rates, with special reward for those, who lvled on 1x and, in my opinion, it's still the best way how to do it. Optional rates are good for both sides.

Or another posibility - Do it like Twinstar when Jeniczek created it. They set xprates to 3x for 3 weeks to lure players from other servers and then they set it to 1x so they can call it blizzlike.
So here, i see a good oportunity - for first 3 weeks from the launch, you will have option to set rates 1-3x and then they set it roughly 1x. It will lure new players and those who want to play only 1x will have their chance.
 

ProtoMan

New Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Likes
3
Location
Colombia
#10
The difference here with the rest of the servers will be the quality of the content, if Kronos is really taking their time to make sure they fix as many bugs as possible before lauch, then the rates should not be an issue, they are going for Blizzlike experience, x1 is just that. There is no point for me to play on a populated server with highrates *coughmoltencough* if the script is crap, that's not fun at all. I did suggest that maybe we should have duplicate rate seasons for 2 or 3 days every month to help new players but that's it, other than that, x1 is fine, the idea is not to rush through the content (at least for me), I want to enjoy the instances and raids as much as I can before anything else.
 

Hiltz

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Likes
4
Location
Massachusetts
#11
I'd rather have an Exp rait locked at about 1.25-1.50, its not so high that leveling is instantanious and the world deserts itself, yet not the incredible crawl of vanilla leveling where you'll spend a week just going from 34-39 due to lack of available quests, Vanilla especially is leveling was nothing near perfect. I don't see why having a x1 purest is so important, but at the same time I think having it set to something high like x5-x10 has its own problems.

Remeber, rested exp is somewhere in that margin, so basically it would be like haveing constant rested exp.
 

Aieris

Authorized
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Likes
303
#12
Like i've sayed, i don't know, what was wrong with optional rates. I think that it is the best option for majority of players.
 

Drevil

New Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Likes
8
#13
If you're not giving PvP players worthy opponents - they quickly become a pack of hungry wolves. Your "vanilla" experience will be ruined by those players simply because they can't wait 10 hours in queue. They will hunt you down while you're having a nostalgia by doing some quest chain or something else. Eventually, after ocean of tears, the Kronos team will be forced to get rid of small PvP community in order to save the rest of community. And every time some PvP group overcomes low-rate experience, they'll be forced to quit by these circumstances, taking a bunch of angry people with them, since they forced some players to ragequit.

If you'll ignore this fact - you'd better make this server as full PvE with permanent PvP OFF flag from the very beggining of it.

Don't tell me that this is just my "imagination". even 5 PvP players as a team is more than enough to do that.

In my opinion, the optional rates (x1-7) is the best idea possible. PvP players will get rates they want. Those who want to experience vanilla nostalgia and all that stuff can choose x1. Of course, you wouldn't have so much players, who would have same feelings, but it's better than being helpless prey.

The better we advertise Kronos - the better for both PvP and PvE community.
 

avyl

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Likes
3
#14
I agree with the OP.

Im impressed by the work and the server but population will be the main issue and 1x rates is the absolutely worst thing for it.

Reasons why this wont work were given above, dont let this server die just in favor for those few who want to level 1x again, optional rates could satisfy both.
 
Last edited:

Figaro

Authorized
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Likes
206
Location
Vysocina
#15
Like i've sayed, i don't know, what was wrong with optional rates. I think that it is the best option for majority of players.
you have to read more posts than only the previous one. It was mentioned couple of times.

shortly: optional rates means > almost all players will choose the highest possible rates,because nobody wanna be starving in STV, when other players grinding Preraid bis gear...
 

Pibie

Authorized
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Likes
24
#16
The difference here with the rest of the servers will be the quality of the content, if Kronos is really taking their time to make sure they fix as many bugs as possible before lauch, then the rates should not be an issue, they are going for Blizzlike experience, x1 is just that. There is no point for me to play on a populated server with highrates *coughmoltencough* if the script is crap, that's not fun at all. I did suggest that maybe we should have duplicate rate seasons for 2 or 3 days every month to help new players but that's it, other than that, x1 is fine, the idea is not to rush through the content (at least for me), I want to enjoy the instances and raids as much as I can before anything else.
We had the quality 6-12 months ago and the server still died. This is a mistake. A huge one. We're going to go down the same route all over again.

The big reason I've heard from people for 1x is that they want to do instances while leveling and take it slow. I'd rather not do SM and ZF while leveling than not be able to get a 5man in 3-6 months time at 60 because there's nobody here. Beyond that pathetic reasoning from the 1x fan boys, there's no reason for anyone to even consider the way others are leveling -- 1-14x (yeah, I said it!) should be optional, similar to the system in place before. That way everyone picks their own xp rate and the server actually stands a chance.

As it currently stands, this just isn't gonna work. That both upsets and frustrates me.
 

Aieris

Authorized
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Likes
303
#17
Ofc the majority will chose the highest, but i've read many posts, that 1x rates are part of vanilla and they enjoy it, so with optional rates, they will have option to enjoy lvling. But I'm member of group, that would like to have higher rates just because of reasons given above - lack of time, bored by doing 20th char on 1x rates and so on...

BTW: Someone have been writing about Corecraft, that they will be 1x too and thousands of players are willing to play there. Well, it's TBC and they will have Q that will get you to the 58 in cca 2 hours. I belive, that without that Q, players interest in this project would be much lower. But this is offtopic.

The best solution for this discussion is - Just hype the server as much as we can and a month before launch, make a pool about, what version of rates the majority of players want. It seems fair enough for me. Because it's nonsence to make 1x server, when, in pool, 100 votes will be for 1x, 1500 for optional, etc...

Because, from this discussion, it seems, that we are divided just to 1x and high rates, but i think, that majority of players don't care about this discussions.
 
Last edited:

Hiltz

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Likes
4
Location
Massachusetts
#18
Its less about the indivdual wanting to level 1-60 him/herself then it is ones desire to see that other people half to put actual effort in to get to cap. The problem any fast level servers tend to have is population consistancy, I was a raidleader on an Instant-cap 60 server for a while, the problem we had was bringing new un-geared 60s to raids each week because we would lose 4 or 5 people every week, they would just not log in or leave the guild.

If you make it easy, People are more likely to leave as they wont feel invested in the slightest bit.

Again (I've said this acrost multipul threads)

I think the best solution is a leveling rait of about 1.25-1.60, the latter end being the TBC Leveling buff, I feel with that value set. People would find,
  • Reaching Cap would still be considered an acomplishment and part of the game
  • It wouldent be so unbearably slow that players may quit half-way through due to bordem
  • Lower-level dungeons would still be relevent
  • Questing/Leveling content would actualy not need any scaleing for this, the problem with x1 is that the game was very grindy there arnt really quest for levels 34-39 and 46-50 you basically grind mobs
 
Last edited:

Figaro

Authorized
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Likes
206
Location
Vysocina
#19
lol 14 x rates :D wtf is this ? :D Instant will be better than this highrate. You will save few days with mindlessly killing all mobs on your sight.
 

Aieris

Authorized
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Likes
303
#20
Hiltz have a point, but higher rates should lure new players and quality of the server should keep them here.

Kronos 2 died to population because people get bored by waiting for BWL for 2 months more than it should be released and the killing blow was war effort with blizzlike numbers. Can you imagine to farm with 200 ppl something, that was designed for 4000?
 

avyl

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Likes
3
#21
Its less about the indivdual wanting to level 1-60 him/herself then it is ones desire to see that other people half to put actual effort in to get to cap. The problem any fast level servers tend to have is population consistancy, I was a raidleader on an Instant-cap 60 server for a while, the problem we had was bringing new un-geared 60s to raids each week because we would lose 4 or 5 people every week, they would just not log in or leave the guild.

If you make it easy, People are more likely to leave as they wont feel invested in the slightest bit.

Again (I've said this acrost multipul threads)

I think the best solution is a leveling rait of about 1.25-1.60, the latter end being the TBC Leveling buff, I feel with that value set. People would find,
  • Reaching Cap would still be considered an acomplishment and part of the game
  • It wouldent be so unbearably slow that players may quit half-way through due to bordem
  • Lower-level dungeons would still be relevent
  • Questing/Leveling content would actualy not need any scaleing for this, the problem with x1 is that the game was very grindy there arnt really quest for levels 34-39 and 46-50 you basically grind mobs
Absolutely not true, if you would have played on most of the 1.12 servers of the last years you would know that its the other way around.
People dont want to level for months, its not "hard" its just boring to do it the 100th time especially on a server you dont know if there will be enough players in the endgame.
 

Figaro

Authorized
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Likes
206
Location
Vysocina
#22
Hiltz have a point, but higher rates should lure new players and quality of the server should keep them here.

Kronos 2 died to population because people get bored by waiting for BWL for 2 months more than it should be released and the killing blow was war effort with blizzlike numbers. Can you imagine to farm with 200 ppl something, that was designed for 4000?

everything under .. lets say... 500 pop is dead. The number is about discuss but its still splitted between 2 factions and ofc you need working PVP, ( include AV) . Doesnt matter what sort of nerds will stay playing. in this state ...kronos 2 was never alive. You can stop talking about dead pop, there wasnt any.

Kronos 2 had highrate, and still no result. Now you definitelly see, the problem isnt about rates, its about hype.
 

RexRyan

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Likes
0
#23
Aside from having quality scripting, the most important thing for a private server is the population...period. It's quite obvious the population will undoubtedly suffer from a 1x rate. This may disappoint many of you but you cannot deny this fact.

For those who love the 1x rate, tell me how enjoyable the endgame content will be for you without enough people to get a 5m group going in a timely fashion? And please don't say the enjoyment of the "leveling experience of 1x rates" is what draws you to private vanilla servers. That is a total farce. This game is how old now? Everybody playing on these private vanilla servers have leveled plenty of classes to 60. The excuses of "learning your class" or "forming friendships" is nonsense really. People here by now know most, if not all of these vanilla classes like the back of their hand. And the friendship/community building argument is equally ridiculous. Anybody playing on Kronos will already have enough in common to make easy "friendships" considering we're all here exercising our nostalgic craving for our love of Vanilla WoW...that is more than enough in common between players to "form bonds." Nobody comes to private servers with the sole intention of "enjoying the leveling experience." Even the few people that do enjoy this process are still looking forward to the endgame content (which will not exist/die very quickly with 1x rates).

As mentioned by others above the PVP will be nonexistent on 1x rates, keeping the server population low and subsequently deterring new plays from joining the server. You would have essentially wasted 400-500 hours of you life leveling the "hard way" only to receive no satisfaction in endgame content. And for the handful of players who are on the forums saying they will refuse to play on anything higher than 1x..I say screw 'em (respectfully of course). Not having you few players here won't have any effect on the server population whatsoever. And I'd be willing to bet that ALL of you would play on this server regardless of your empty threats about leveling rates because if the scripting is as good as it seems and the population is large and active...all of you will play. I'm open to listening to more arguments in favor of 1x rates...but no matter how valid your points may be, they will never change the fact that at 1x rates the server population will suffer and ultimately lead to the demise of this project. You few 1x lovers are really just shooting yourselves, and essentially everyone else in the foot by lobbying for it. You guys are in the minority yet for some reason have the loudest voice. And unfortunately the dev's are listening. The reality lies in the fact that 90-95% of this servers future population isn't on this thread right now debating what the rates should be. And I'd be willing to wager that the ONLY people who want a true 1x experience are the very ones who are debating on this forum right now.

The ONLY option here has to be giving players a choice, however this range should be narrow. I would say choosing between 1x or 1.6x(TBC). And lets be realistic here, 1.6x is not extreme at all but it will make a HUGE difference. Instead of spending 400-500 hours on 1x you would be spending 250-350 on 1.6x. This comes out to be about 12 days of playing time compared to 19. Yes I agree servers that run 4x-12x are a joke and leave the server with a sloppy community and economy. But 1.6x is really not that much of an accelerated rate. You wouldn't be skipping zones, you wouldn't just farm to 60..you'd still need quests. Your gear would still be relevant for plenty of time to justifiably run every instance these dev's have worked so very hard on. The community would be strong because the population would be high and consistently active. And within 2-3 months of opening, the server will have a great level 60 population, boasting heavy PvP participation and budding endgame PvE progression. This is in turn will pull even more players from other servers, exponentially increasing the Kronos population and ultimately leading to the long term sustainable success that we all want to see in a server before committing so much of our free time towards it.

TLDR? Read it.
 

Hiltz

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Likes
4
Location
Massachusetts
#24
Absolutely not true, if you would have played on most of the 1.12 servers of the last years you would know that its the other way around.
People dont want to level for months, its not "hard" its just boring to do it the 100th time especially on a server you dont know if there will be enough players in the endgame.
To easy, they leave.
To hard, they leave.

Its a matter of finding that golden sweetsplot, you need to have some reason for the players (even new ones) to feel like the investment is worth it, while not making it so hard that asking for that investment is asking to much.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Likes
6
#25
Hello everyone , well tbh best way is make serv x1-x7 where every player can choice what rate he go to lvl as it was back on kronos when we all started to play it. So if u want to lvl hardcore retail experience go do it on x1 and if u dont want to spend 4 months lvling a char go x7 , i think thats the best way. We should understand that we need to get as many people on Kronos as we can , and only x1 rate scares away too many people... I tried Rebirth x1 serv, ye many people lvl , ye new players every day , but on 60 like no one play! 0 pve pvp action and all stuck on lvl 40
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom