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Kronos staff - what are you thinking with x1 rates?

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#27
I'm so extremely happy that they've decided on x1. Me and a couple of friends have been searching for the proper vanilla server for a while, after leaving ED due too the amount of bugs they suffer from. We all believe the levelling aspect is AT LEAST as important a part of the overall experience as the endgame. Personally I tend to start an alt as soon as I reach lvl 60. ( not that I don't love vanilla end-game as well though)

x1 experience rates is a must for us. Even x2 I feel dramatically takes away from the vanilla experience. Even though some might not initially agree, I believe that in the long run, having anything but x1 will be harmful to the server. I also don't believe x1 will be harmful to the server, quite the opposite. Just look at all the people flocking away from ED, where do they go ? Rebirth. A server that has seen a massive growth due in no small part (imo) to their commitment to make everything as blizz-like as possible. They however suffer greatly under a ddos attack right now. All newcomers too private servers are also mostly going to look for x1 servers I believe. (at least everyone I know has) I simply do not believe people arguments saying that x1 will be harmful to the population. Those that refuse a x1 server would probably prefer instant 60 anyway.

Furthermore, now that you are giving this server so much attention in every aspect, I believe anything but x1 is going to directly contradict the goals you have set for this server, as this means people will just rush through it all to experience the end game alone.

Edit: oh and by the way, I agree with most others that experience rates should ABSOLUTELY be locked for all. Ability to choose from x1 to x8 or whatever, makes little to no sense. Eventually everyone will switch to the highest multiplier.
 
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#28
Also i see people talk here about quality of content and yes for me is the most important point of Kronos also.. but guys open your eyes , 99% of people care only about onnline... If server is bad , everything work like shit but server got 4k onnline they all go to play that server!( warsong example) . What im trying to explain is : We need to make it interesting for everyone. Most part of people dont care about cool quest in Redridge , or chain quests in Duskwood , they want to get 60 and kell dregonz or smash bads in bgs. For those who rly want retail exp just make option of x1 =) Peace!
 

HBK

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#29
for my own personal enjoyment, i don't give much of a fugg how high the rates will be. for me the importance is in the quality of the content. And the quality will be the best of all vanilla p-servers no doubt about it !
I would do the x1 if i had to, i would gladly take the tbc values that some of you mentioned to have it more fluent.
high rates make it even more comfortable ... but to be honest, this comfort and accessibilty is what i hate about retail WoW.
I just think everything has to be fair and everyone should level at the same rates. Super high rates or even instant 60 what the PvPonly guys would love to have is a little cheesy in my mind.
 

Drevil

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#30
And within 2-3 months of opening, the server will have a great level 60 population, boasting heavy PvP participation
We are not talking about PvP with key-turning PvE heroes smashing PvE rotation not using engineering and fakecasting at all. If you want to see heavy PvP participation - you'd better start with rates higher than 1.33333223232. Just because you add additional number beyond the dot doesn't mean it changes x1 experience. Making flexible rates (x1-7) will allow Kronos to escape the mistakes made on Rebirth and ED. Or we'll face some ridiculous rules like "You're not allowed to camp players on eGY, because you're ruining their gaming experience...whatever"
Clean PvE server is all you're trying to make with your x1 talking with BGs used to farm reputation/rank for gear. I'm sorry but i don't want to see another server where I could kill R14 60 warrior with 52 warrior.
 
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Pibie

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#31
Its less about the indivdual wanting to level 1-60 him/herself then it is ones desire to see that other people half to put actual effort in to get to cap. The problem any fast level servers tend to have is population consistancy, I was a raidleader on an Instant-cap 60 server for a while, the problem we had was bringing new un-geared 60s to raids each week because we would lose 4 or 5 people every week, they would just not log in or leave the guild.

If you make it easy, People are more likely to leave as they wont feel invested in the slightest bit.

Again (I've said this acrost multipul threads)

I think the best solution is a leveling rait of about 1.25-1.60, the latter end being the TBC Leveling buff, I feel with that value set. People would find,
  • Reaching Cap would still be considered an acomplishment and part of the game
  • It wouldent be so unbearably slow that players may quit half-way through due to bordem
  • Lower-level dungeons would still be relevent
  • Questing/Leveling content would actualy not need any scaleing for this, the problem with x1 is that the game was very grindy there arnt really quest for levels 34-39 and 46-50 you basically grind mobs
An instant 60 will always face those issues, you're absolutely correct. However, higher rates don't mean there is no feeling of investment. Let's take that big private server that doesn't deserve to have its name on our forums as an example (I'm sure you know the one). It has 14x rates and an incredibly consistent raiding core, despite the terrible state of gameplay that it's offering. I raided on this server for years, literally. During that time I did see people come and go, you're absolutely right but you're going to have that on any private server. It's not limited to WoW either, private servers of pretty much every game suffer the same fate. Sure, you'll have the small group that stay loyal but that's not enough if you want a true vanilla experience, which requires masses of players.

On higher rates those people that do only stay for a month get to 60, engage in 5mans, drive the economy, level professions, dabble in a bit of PvP and so forth. On 1x rates, those people rarely even get to level cap. This leaves a huge void across the board in various places. Just go and look at Rebirth, properly. Look at the auction house and wider economy; it's stagnant. 5mans? Nuh-uh, not likely. They're 90% guild runs so the "vets" don't have to suffer with the pugs. Even then it's rare because most players don't need them for gear, it's for mats and other things the guild may need.

I'll address your bullet points in the same order for the sake of simplicity:

1) I agree, there is an accomplishment in reaching level cap at 1x. So do it? What's being proposed is allowing the individual to make the decision themselves, rather than driving those who aren't interested in leveling again away from the server. Set your xp rate to 1x and we'll see you at 60. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

2) I have literally leveled 60-70+ chars to 60 in a vanilla environment, so boredom is unavoidable on that front for me personally but this isn't about me. It's about the server. The problem is, not many people have my tolerance for the mundane. Most (not all) players are bored of leveling in vanilla. We have seen this project stutter twice now, with rates being a key issue on both occasions and it doesn't seem like anyone is learning from the errors of the past. If someone's not having fun, they won't play as much and eventually they'll quit. It's a game after all.

3) Lower-level instances wouldn't be relevant, because the population would be drastically lower with people spread across all the levels. Finding 5 people within the same level bracket who are willing to stop questing to travel half way across the world for the chance (groups fall apart) do an instance will be extremely difficult. A case could also be made re: group composition too but if you have 2 people in a low-level 5man who know what they're doing, you can work around it.

4) The lower level content wouldn't need scaling with improved rates. Those that choose to level on the higher rates would need to suffer the consequences. It's that simple. They've managed before, they'll manage again. It's a decision for the individual and the trade off involved.

Please don't take any of the above in the wrong way, it most certainly wasn't meant to cause offence or appear as if I'm trying to flame you. That's just not my style. I appreciate someone actually throwing something constructive into the ring.

Figaro said:
lol 14 x rates :D wtf is this ? :D Instant will be better than this highrate. You will save few days with mindlessly killing all mobs on your sight.
The two biggest vanilla servers that have actually stayed around and continuously maintained a good population have similar experience rates. This is all despite the terrible state of their gameplay. Keep laughing at the suggestion but it's painfully obvious for those who have their heads screwed on that we'll be here in 12 months time talking about Kronos 4.0 if these plans don't change.
 
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#32
I'm so extremely happy that they've decided on x1. Me and a couple of friends have been searching for the proper vanilla server for a while, after leaving ED due too the amount of bugs they suffer from. We all believe the levelling aspect is AT LEAST as important a part of the overall experience as the endgame. Personally I tend to start an alt as soon as I reach lvl 60. ( not that I don't love vanilla end-game as well though)

x1 experience rates is a must for us. Even x2 I feel dramatically takes away from the vanilla experience. Even though some might not initially agree, I believe that in the long run, having anything but x1 will be harmful to the server. I also don't believe x1 will be harmful to the server, quite the opposite. Just look at all the people flocking away from ED, where do they go ? Rebirth. A server that has seen a massive growth due in no small part (imo) to their commitment to make everything as blizz-like as possible. They however suffer greatly under a ddos attack right now. All newcomers too private servers are also mostly going to look for x1 servers I believe. (at least everyone I know has) I simply do not believe people arguments saying that x1 will be harmful to the population. Those that refuse a x1 server would probably prefer instant 60 anyway.

Furthermore, now that you are giving this server so much attention in every aspect, I believe anything but x1 is going to directly contradict the goals you have set for this server, as this means people will just rush through it all to experience the end game alone.

Edit: oh and by the way, I agree with most others that experience rates should ABSOLUTELY be locked for all. Ability to choose from x1 to x8 or whatever, makes little to no sense. Eventually everyone will switch to the highest multiplier.
Oke now imagine u and your couple of friends play x1 , lvl here then on 60 u get ilumination that u cant even get people for raid since only 1 from 100 players gonna lvl on x1 server due of ( 50 of them alrdy played x1 serv and alrdy cba , rest are pvp heros and dont want to waste 4 months for second ED coz they will never understand what kind of scripts offer Kronos since didnt even will try to play, and other 9 are from WoTLk)! Yes u are happy with x1 but most people are not , and they dont go to play it , and if most part of people dont play u get bad onnline . In the end u will say "THIS SERVER IS A FAIL , NO ONE PLAY HERE" and quit .... I played old Kronos around 1 year , called all WoW friend here around 60 guys ,they all lvled to 60 and all said the same , "Yea it BEST SERVER I EVER PLAYED ,but no one play here so i quit! bye im back on warsong"=) go do x1 and expect the same..................
 

HBK

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#33
2) We have seen this project stutter twice now, with rates being a key issue on both occasions and it doesn't seem like anyone is learning from the errors of the past.
i dont think this reflects the downfall of the last Kronos well. there were x1-7 in the beginning and it got even raised to x15 later on to please the PvP people who wanted to join. it didnt help. It certainly was not about the leveling rates being too low ;).
 

Cr0wL0ck

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#34
start with 2-5x rate for 1-4 weeks as a promotion and to spread players over all leveling zones, afterwards reduce to 1x and stay there. going over 1x and you cannot call it vanilla but just a plain common private server.
 
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#35
i dont think this reflects the downfall of the last Kronos well. there were x1-7 in the beginning and it got even raised to x15 later on to please the PvP people who wanted to join. it didnt help. It certainly was not about the leveling rates being too low ;).
Oh Sherlock , u talk about Kronos who no one advertised , and about kronos with forum page on Czech? nice example..... Now we see total diferent project and even on old Kronos only reason that people was starting to play there was x1-x7 and later x15 and i was finding people to play it .
 
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Figaro

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#36
. Making flexible rates (x1-7) will allow Kronos to escape the mistakes made on Rebirth and ED. Or we'll face some ridiculous rules like "You're not allowed to camp players on eGY, because you're ruining their gaming experience...whatever"
.
What mistake it is exactly on ED ? People there runing All BGs, include AV, and thats the point.
 

Pibie

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#37
i dont think this reflects the downfall of the last Kronos well. there were x1-7 in the beginning and it got even raised to x15 later on to please the PvP people who wanted to join. it didnt help. It certainly was not about the leveling rates being too low ;).
Strongly disagree. We saw a huge surge of people around the time of that "boost" and if the server was launched with those rates, we would have seen a much stronger reaction. The issue was that it was withdrawn during that surge and then we saw the population stagnate... again.
 

HBK

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#39
Oh Sherlock , u talk about Kronos who no one advertised , and about kronos with forum page on Czech? nice example..... Now we see total diferent project and even on old Kronos only reason that people was starting to play there was x1-x7 and later x15 and i was finding people to play it .
yeah right you name it, there was more to it than just the leveling rates which lead to the server shutdown. there was no advertising, not a 100% english support yet. and thats what they do better now. that's just was i was saying you know ... ;)]
 

Drevil

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#40
What mistake it is exactly on ED ? People there runing All BGs, include AV, and thats the point.
1) Keep in mind, that ED was formed on already-existing server with a lot of players complaining about Warsong server quality. (Not sure if you got the quality out of your cries, but you did got the server with already formed community)
2) On previous Kronos, we used screenshots from AB as part of advertisement (on ED at that time no one was playing on AB) Even with already formed community (not small at all I might add) - ED was still broken server in PvP aspect of the game. Even at this point all PvP action there is so annoying.
 

sivo

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#41
Hm this is maybe one of the hardest decision for the staff, Keep in mind that
higher rates= more twinks= more profession= more arcanit bars, mooncloth = destroy economy
and ofc guys that fake que just to open up bgs
that are the bad things about hight exp rates and not like if you lvl faster you don t go low instance it is the Players choose always if they go low instance or not
but i would say with 1 rate you will lose many interest players because they don t want to lvl for 2-4month with 1xrate (because most of them had chars on other Servers)
think even 0-2 would be best if not even 3, everything higher would just destroy econemy
let be realistic the guys who want 7 rates are this guys with 7chars have 4 arcanit transmute and 3 mooncloth transmute^^
 

Drevil

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#42
and ofc guys that fake que just to open up bgs
You can't que more than 1 character on BG at the same time on Kronos, don't worry.
think even 0-2 would be best if not even 3, everything higher would just destroy econemy
let be realistic the guys who want 7 rates are this guys with 7chars have 4 arcanit transmute and 3 mooncloth transmute^^
I can see Arcane Crystals price higher than Arcanite Bars on rebirth x1 server. It's not the rates, it's always the *smart* people who destroy economy) I can call you few players on Warsong dumping the prices just because they don't understand the following consequences.
 

HBK

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#43
yeah see, everyone is proposing things out of his own egoistic world. so we end up here having 10+ different opnions, every opinion has it's pros and cons, however, the guys proposing them only mention the good things.

Chero, or the whole Team has to take ALL the things into consideration, see the dilemma ? No matter how they had chosen, there would have been an outrage about it, how bad the decision is and how much better the decision could have been, it's ridiculous. PvP people only care about what it takes to attract all the pvp oriented guys which is mega high rates or even instant 60. Vanilla purists want x1 and nothing else and the people trying to propose a compromise get attacked from both sides :D
It's like a war without a winner, it is terrible.
 

avyl

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#45
yeah see, everyone is proposing things out of his own egoistic world. so we end up here having 10+ different opnions, every opinion has it's pros and cons, however, the guys proposing them only mention the good things.

Chero, or the whole Team has to take ALL the things into consideration, see the dilemma ? No matter how they had chosen, there would have been an outrage about it, how bad the decision is and how much better the decision could have been, it's ridiculous. PvP people only care about what it takes to attract all the pvp oriented guys which is mega high rates or even instant 60. Vanilla purists want x1 and nothing else and the people trying to propose a compromise get attacked from both sides :D
It's like a war without a winner, it is terrible.
Well basically there are 2 scenarios

1. You satisfy the minority that enjoys 1x leveling and defines classic around that. Meanwhile you have another dead server.
2. You satisfy those who dont want to level for months but have a server with at least the chance to have a healthy population.

It's just a fact that 1x rates are very bad for the population of a server, for reasons named on page 1.
 
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#46
"Vanilla purists want x1 and nothing else" lolwat , i remember those vanilla purist crying all day about WAI PEOPLE DONT PLEY .... Instant 60 is shit , x123 rates is shit also , but jesus christ just make it atleast x3 . Ye i care about pvp mostly but i want to play with many people on good scripted server , not with 10 freaks overall who farm monkeys whole day coz bored of his shit life . Btw HBK whats ur ingame char name was on Kronos?
 

HBK

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#47
this just shows how rotten the private server community is. you'll get a fantastically scripted server right here. it's sad that it took the p-server scene THIS LONG to finally create a server like this one. It's sad we all had to suffer from previous private servers which were not meant to be released altogether. All servers were unfinished when they were released, which lead to a bad experience overall on so many levels of quality.
And now we stand here, making suggestions based on other projects that never had the quality to be justified of being released. And not accepting what we are getting, not appreciating the hard work that Chero has been doing FOR YEARS to achieve this by not even be willing put a few weeks or a month or whatever to do the leveling
 
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#48
Well basically there are 2 scenarios

1. You satisfy the minority that enjoys 1x leveling and defines classic around that. Meanwhile you have another dead server.
2. You satisfy those who dont want to level for months but have a server with at least the chance to have a healthy population.

It's just a fact that 1x rates are very bad for the population of a server, for reasons named on page 1.
Totally agree.

- - - Updated - - -

this just shows how rotten the private server community is. you'll get a fantastically scripted server right here. it's sad that it took the p-server scene THIS LONG to finally create a server like this one. It's sad we all had to suffer from previous private servers which were not meant to be released altogether. All servers were unfinished when they were released, which lead to a bad experience overall on so many levels of quality.
And now we stand here, making suggestions based on other projects that never had the quality to be justified of being released. And not accepting what we are getting, not appreciating the hard work that Chero has been doing FOR YEARS to achieve this by not even be willing to do the leveling once.
You , me , and other 50 who played Kronos for long time , we all know how awesome server is. But other who will join it now ONLY CARE ABOUT fkin onnline , they dont care about who is Chero or how many work he did , they dont care about scripts , they dont care about blizzlike , they just want server with onnline , with static raids , bgs , premades and stuff like that..
. Is not hard to understand .
 

HBK

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#49
yeah see, WE the players are the problem ! We dont want to accept what we are given. By "We" i mean the entire vanilla community.
anyways, i'll be here no matter the rates, whether they change or not. And i can only suggest to everyone to do the same.
 

Aieris

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#50
This discussion is now meaningless, as i've sayed before - Make a pool, a month before launch, and set xprates by it's result.
 
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