Paladin Levelling a paladin
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Yes, you tank multiple mobs with consecration np.
My issue is that you're all recommending the "aoe tanking" for levelling, not for dungeons at 60. Consecration is a huge mana burn for moderate damage, so in my opinion while levelling, you will be running out of mana and spending time drinking ( = downtime), while it will also take you more time to kill the monsters you pulled than if you killed them with a 2-handed ret spec.
My issue is that you're all recommending the "aoe tanking" for levelling, not for dungeons at 60. Consecration is a huge mana burn for moderate damage, so in my opinion while levelling, you will be running out of mana and spending time drinking ( = downtime), while it will also take you more time to kill the monsters you pulled than if you killed them with a 2-handed ret spec.
Yes, I think you are right with that. I always tanked as holy/ret so I did not feel the need to go protection at all just for tanking better. I tried it though for grinding Silithus and came to the same conclusion. I did not measure the time but I did not have the impression that it is any faster than just staying with my 20/0/31 build where I never have to drink at all.
I will try 0/27/24 just to see how it is for solo play though.
I will try 0/27/24 just to see how it is for solo play though.
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- May 2, 2016
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So which spec for leveling? The OP says Ret is the fastest, but other posts are saying that Reckoning is the best.
The idea of having to /sit and take 4 crits to the face just to kill a mob sounds rather unappealing, while conversely, leveling Paladin the same way you level Priest (autoattack and alt-tab to web browser for 20 seconds) sounds pretty feasible.
But then again, I'm not exactly sure how much damage one would take from a crit while wearing mail/plate gear plus a shield, and of course this is a Paladin so you can always just pop a Flash Heal on yourself afterwards...
Please explain.
The idea of having to /sit and take 4 crits to the face just to kill a mob sounds rather unappealing, while conversely, leveling Paladin the same way you level Priest (autoattack and alt-tab to web browser for 20 seconds) sounds pretty feasible.
But then again, I'm not exactly sure how much damage one would take from a crit while wearing mail/plate gear plus a shield, and of course this is a Paladin so you can always just pop a Flash Heal on yourself afterwards...
Please explain.
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Kill speed is fastest with Reckoning. You don't do a "Reckoning Bomb" to level up. That means you don't take 4 crits, instead you keep sitting down repeatedly during combat and reactivating your attack after being crit to proc the charge you just gained.
Keep in mind that 100% chance Reckoning will only be available at level 34+, while Retribution tree gives you permanent 8% movespeed since level 21. Until someone does a speedrun with Retribution and another speedrun with Reckoning, we won't know the exact differences.
Keep in mind that 100% chance Reckoning will only be available at level 34+, while Retribution tree gives you permanent 8% movespeed since level 21. Until someone does a speedrun with Retribution and another speedrun with Reckoning, we won't know the exact differences.
Ehh
"Cons of being a paladin:
- You have no ranged attack until late game. Can't even throw a rock or somethin'. Your most used ranged ability is Exorcism, which is limited to undead enemies.
- You have almost no combat abilities. You will do just fine with autoattacking, but Paladin's rotation is like 1) Seal up, 2) End of rotation, and repeat that every 30 seconds, sometimes add Judgement. That can get quite boring.
- You have very low DPS. Levelling a Paladin is a pain, and you will want to keep equipping better weapons even if you don't really need to, just to speed it up a little.
- You have no slows, speed boost or ranged stuns, you basically cannot catch an enemy player. It gimps you in low level PvP situations, and you need farmable items or professions to make up for it.
That's about it."
EEEHHH This is not true at all.
Accusation: "- You have no ranged attack"
Paladin got a execution move which is long ranged and will finish off people with 20% health left
Paladin got seals and stuns which are medium ranged spells and will fukk you up
Accusation: "- You have almost no combat abilities"
Paladin got alot of combat abilities that make the class versatile and fun to play for healing, damage and defense and support, you do not decide the reality of this, are you ignoring the defensive focused class aspect? There are alot of defensive combat spells which are used all the time and are fun and versatile.
Accusation: "- You have very low DPS"
Prot paladin can aoe kill mobs just as well as a mage in many instances and does not really have to drink mana after every pull or be afraid of enemy players because of the healing and defensive spells available to the paladin.
To underestimate a strong retribution specced dmg paladin is a dangerous way of thinking, ret paladins can crush faces easily, I have played several which are murderers and will crush the target with holy dmg, procs, crits and stuns.
We could do an extreme example and make you stand there and get hit by a fully loaded reck paladin with a epic two hander, see whats up with that in your face 5 hits instant not counting procs mate
Accusation: "- You have no slows, speed boost or ranged stuns"
Paladin do have speed boosts and ranged stuns, are you autistic good sir?
"Cons of being a paladin:
- You have no ranged attack until late game. Can't even throw a rock or somethin'. Your most used ranged ability is Exorcism, which is limited to undead enemies.
- You have almost no combat abilities. You will do just fine with autoattacking, but Paladin's rotation is like 1) Seal up, 2) End of rotation, and repeat that every 30 seconds, sometimes add Judgement. That can get quite boring.
- You have very low DPS. Levelling a Paladin is a pain, and you will want to keep equipping better weapons even if you don't really need to, just to speed it up a little.
- You have no slows, speed boost or ranged stuns, you basically cannot catch an enemy player. It gimps you in low level PvP situations, and you need farmable items or professions to make up for it.
That's about it."
EEEHHH This is not true at all.
Accusation: "- You have no ranged attack"
Paladin got a execution move which is long ranged and will finish off people with 20% health left
Paladin got seals and stuns which are medium ranged spells and will fukk you up
Accusation: "- You have almost no combat abilities"
Paladin got alot of combat abilities that make the class versatile and fun to play for healing, damage and defense and support, you do not decide the reality of this, are you ignoring the defensive focused class aspect? There are alot of defensive combat spells which are used all the time and are fun and versatile.
Accusation: "- You have very low DPS"
Prot paladin can aoe kill mobs just as well as a mage in many instances and does not really have to drink mana after every pull or be afraid of enemy players because of the healing and defensive spells available to the paladin.
To underestimate a strong retribution specced dmg paladin is a dangerous way of thinking, ret paladins can crush faces easily, I have played several which are murderers and will crush the target with holy dmg, procs, crits and stuns.
We could do an extreme example and make you stand there and get hit by a fully loaded reck paladin with a epic two hander, see whats up with that in your face 5 hits instant not counting procs mate
Accusation: "- You have no slows, speed boost or ranged stuns"
Paladin do have speed boosts and ranged stuns, are you autistic good sir?
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What I always found super annoying is that damage is luck based. Sure you can dish out some serious burst, but you have almost no control over it as you heavily rely on your SoC proc and crits. That and the not so well though out design of paladin tanks in vanilla are things I always disliked. Even though paladin is still my favorite class and I am tanking very often in 5 mans.
Sometimes I just think that hybrid tax is just an excuse for inferior design in some spots (as warriors obviously don't suffer from it). They did a good job correcting many issues later on though.
Sometimes I just think that hybrid tax is just an excuse for inferior design in some spots (as warriors obviously don't suffer from it). They did a good job correcting many issues later on though.
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- Joined
- May 2, 2016
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That's like saying Rogue is a ranged class because it has throwing knives...
Like...?
When he says "combat abilities" he means "damage abilities"...thought that would be inferred by the rest of the explanation. Paladin has Judgement, Consecration, a couple of damage seals, and Hammer of Righteousness, for damage abilities; Holy Shock if you're holy...not much outside of that.
Ahahaha, no they can't.
The fuck hax are you using that you don't have to drink after using 5+ consecrates? This isn't TBC where blocks give you 2% max mana; your only mana regen is coming from Blessing of Wisdom, for the most part.
Pretty sure if you've got 8 mobs on you and an enemy player attacks you, you're fucked unless you bubble and make all the mobs reset.
...literally what "speed boost" do paladins have? Are you autistic good sir?
Like...?
When he says "combat abilities" he means "damage abilities"...thought that would be inferred by the rest of the explanation. Paladin has Judgement, Consecration, a couple of damage seals, and Hammer of Righteousness, for damage abilities; Holy Shock if you're holy...not much outside of that.
Ahahaha, no they can't.
The fuck hax are you using that you don't have to drink after using 5+ consecrates? This isn't TBC where blocks give you 2% max mana; your only mana regen is coming from Blessing of Wisdom, for the most part.
Pretty sure if you've got 8 mobs on you and an enemy player attacks you, you're fucked unless you bubble and make all the mobs reset.
...literally what "speed boost" do paladins have? Are you autistic good sir?
I try to use Consecration just once. It's usually enough to hold aggro of a group during the fight. Exception is a mage or warlock using AoE at the same time. Then I have to spam it and run out of mana for sure.
Other than that if I know I have enough threat I usually switch to Seal of Wisdom to get some mana back. MP5 on gear helps as well. You still have to drink but you can delay it a little.
But the better the gear of your group members get the more you have to spend your mana on abilities that increase your threat. Spelldamage helps to an extend. Sucks really about paladin tanks in Vanilla. Especially when you are fighing mobs that drain your mana.
Other than that if I know I have enough threat I usually switch to Seal of Wisdom to get some mana back. MP5 on gear helps as well. You still have to drink but you can delay it a little.
But the better the gear of your group members get the more you have to spend your mana on abilities that increase your threat. Spelldamage helps to an extend. Sucks really about paladin tanks in Vanilla. Especially when you are fighing mobs that drain your mana.
You cannot initiate combat with this "execution move", or use it at any given point of combat to suit your gameplay needs.
Seals are buffs, you probably meant judgements, those are 10 yards range and on a cooldown. Stun has the same range and even longer cooldown. So while your default ranged attacker can use abilities in 30-41 yard range radius with no cooldown, you have to run towards the enemy to 10-yard range (aka. just outside of melee range while moving) and you have to use a COOLDOWN to even interrupt a goddamn bandage. TL;DR the point stands.
Splendid! Let's compare with a Warrior in a regular fight vs. a level 60 monster...
I buff Blessing of Might and Seal of Command, then I run into range and autoattack. I use Hammer of Justice (only maybe) and a Judgement - reSeal of Command, while waiting for autoattacks to take the enemy down. I can cast Divine Shield once per fight, but it's a waste of cooldown, because you don't need it and it actually slows down your kill speed!
Warrior casts Bloodrage and Battle Shout. Then Charges to close the distance, and while his autoattacks are working the same way a paladin's autoattacks do, he also uses Hamstring (if required), then continues with Mortal Strike/Bloodthirst, followed up by Whirlwind or Heroic Strike and he keeps casting these abilities until he runs out of Rage or until the mob is dead. But there is also Overpower, Cleave, Thunder Clap, Rend and stance dancing in case you didn't have enough to do yet. And a sh!tload of usable cooldowns like Intercept or Berserker Rage and others I won't even start mentioning, which actually ARE USEFUL, because they make you kill the mob faster.
In case you want a "defensive guy" comparsion, Protection Warriors have Sunder Armor to spam while Shield Bashing and using Revenge on cooldown, Mortal/Bloodthirst is replaced by Shield Slam, all while the abovementioned abilities like Heroic Strike are still a thing!
Can you see the difference now?
The only thing that is "fun to play" with paladin is the ability to alt-tab to Cornhub and completely ignore your ingame character.
As some fat Dwarf Warrior named Jens once said "I'll believe that sh!t when I see it". Make a video. Other players have already said the proper responses to your "drinking" claim.
The statement you're attacking was "low DPS", not "low burst damage". Feel free to search for the difference between these two. Also feel free to contact me in-game for the test. I will be probably standing at half HP, ready to counterstun you and heal or bubble out.
Care to name some speed boosts? Because I'm having really big issues catching those horde druids in Warsong Gulch when my Flash Bomb wears off.
And care to name some ranged stuns for us too? Because last time I checked, 10 yards range = not ranged.
Seals are buffs, you probably meant judgements, those are 10 yards range and on a cooldown. Stun has the same range and even longer cooldown. So while your default ranged attacker can use abilities in 30-41 yard range radius with no cooldown, you have to run towards the enemy to 10-yard range (aka. just outside of melee range while moving) and you have to use a COOLDOWN to even interrupt a goddamn bandage. TL;DR the point stands.
Splendid! Let's compare with a Warrior in a regular fight vs. a level 60 monster...
I buff Blessing of Might and Seal of Command, then I run into range and autoattack. I use Hammer of Justice (only maybe) and a Judgement - reSeal of Command, while waiting for autoattacks to take the enemy down. I can cast Divine Shield once per fight, but it's a waste of cooldown, because you don't need it and it actually slows down your kill speed!
Warrior casts Bloodrage and Battle Shout. Then Charges to close the distance, and while his autoattacks are working the same way a paladin's autoattacks do, he also uses Hamstring (if required), then continues with Mortal Strike/Bloodthirst, followed up by Whirlwind or Heroic Strike and he keeps casting these abilities until he runs out of Rage or until the mob is dead. But there is also Overpower, Cleave, Thunder Clap, Rend and stance dancing in case you didn't have enough to do yet. And a sh!tload of usable cooldowns like Intercept or Berserker Rage and others I won't even start mentioning, which actually ARE USEFUL, because they make you kill the mob faster.
In case you want a "defensive guy" comparsion, Protection Warriors have Sunder Armor to spam while Shield Bashing and using Revenge on cooldown, Mortal/Bloodthirst is replaced by Shield Slam, all while the abovementioned abilities like Heroic Strike are still a thing!
Can you see the difference now?
The only thing that is "fun to play" with paladin is the ability to alt-tab to Cornhub and completely ignore your ingame character.
As some fat Dwarf Warrior named Jens once said "I'll believe that sh!t when I see it". Make a video. Other players have already said the proper responses to your "drinking" claim.
The statement you're attacking was "low DPS", not "low burst damage". Feel free to search for the difference between these two. Also feel free to contact me in-game for the test. I will be probably standing at half HP, ready to counterstun you and heal or bubble out.
Care to name some speed boosts? Because I'm having really big issues catching those horde druids in Warsong Gulch when my Flash Bomb wears off.
And care to name some ranged stuns for us too? Because last time I checked, 10 yards range = not ranged.
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It seems like you are talking about something else than what you define your words for, about unspecified definitions which anyone here is unable to verify unless stated specifically with words on text, to specifically say that "You have no ranged attack" "You have almost no combat abilities" "You have very low DPS" "You have no slows, speed boost or ranged stuns" are specifically not true
For example, Paladin do have ranged,
because to decide for yourself in your brain what ranged emotionally means to you in your world is not what is actually applied when the word is written, one can not decide the reality of a situation, or a word, one must first see the reality of a situation, and then act accordingly.
To decide that for example of all the things here, the word "ranged" means that something has to be able to reach 30 yards or more is not what the word means, ranged is anything that is beyond arms reach,
we do have stuns that reach far into the ranged category, but like the rogue, warrior, paladin, melee shamans and feral druids we do not have
the far ranged strong attack powers of hunters, warlocks, mages and mayba priest, but some medium ranged effects we can apply.
"Very low dps" This means abysmal performance, which can not realistically be true, I know it is not, "No ranged attacks", as in zero, which also is not a reality, and etc etc, my good sir,
I believe the disagreement here is about someone being unspecific and a decider of words meanings, where at the same time someone else is relying on specific meaning of words and instructions to then reach specific conclusions.
This is the end of my efforts here for you to see, good day to you my good sir,
and may the power of self insight light your path towards success in your challenges
For example, Paladin do have ranged,
because to decide for yourself in your brain what ranged emotionally means to you in your world is not what is actually applied when the word is written, one can not decide the reality of a situation, or a word, one must first see the reality of a situation, and then act accordingly.
To decide that for example of all the things here, the word "ranged" means that something has to be able to reach 30 yards or more is not what the word means, ranged is anything that is beyond arms reach,
we do have stuns that reach far into the ranged category, but like the rogue, warrior, paladin, melee shamans and feral druids we do not have
the far ranged strong attack powers of hunters, warlocks, mages and mayba priest, but some medium ranged effects we can apply.
"Very low dps" This means abysmal performance, which can not realistically be true, I know it is not, "No ranged attacks", as in zero, which also is not a reality, and etc etc, my good sir,
I believe the disagreement here is about someone being unspecific and a decider of words meanings, where at the same time someone else is relying on specific meaning of words and instructions to then reach specific conclusions.
This is the end of my efforts here for you to see, good day to you my good sir,
and may the power of self insight light your path towards success in your challenges
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Crusader, you had enough space to disprove my statements. Instead, you chose to post some useless crap about word meanings.
If your brain capacity is not good enough to understand that paladin is a melee-only class, feel free to google descriptions of wow paladins, because you won't find a single one stating that paladin is a "ranged class" or uses "ranged abilities". Now, unless you want to bring something constructive to the discussion, GTFO from my guide.
If your brain capacity is not good enough to understand that paladin is a melee-only class, feel free to google descriptions of wow paladins, because you won't find a single one stating that paladin is a "ranged class" or uses "ranged abilities". Now, unless you want to bring something constructive to the discussion, GTFO from my guide.