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    TwinStar team

Naxxramas PTR

shard

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Joined
Aug 20, 2015
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121
#26
Risen and Vanguard are more worried about other guilds getting any sort of advantage in the server first race than they care about properly testing the difficulty on the PTR. You guys are asking for them to not reveal the difficulty, which may result in Naxx being undertuned--but for what? So you guys can inevitably blow through Naxx when it's released in less than a week or two anyways so your members can go back to raid logging/inactive status a week later?

I'd rather have the .levelup and .additem commands so that all players--not just the tryhard guilds that have been farming everything the longest--have a chance to test for more than just bugs. I'd like to see the difficulty of Naxx also be tested so that the raid can be released in a sufficiently difficult state. If that leads to people feeling like the PTR spoiled their experience or gave people an unfair advantage, then maybe don't play on the PTR? :s
It's not about competition, it's about fighting for what's best for our guilds, and what's best for the longevity of Kronos. I was lucky enough to get to clear Naxx in retail vanilla, but there are very few others here who have as well. Do you think the release of Naxx will be exciting for those people after practicing every trash pull and every boss encounter for several months on the PTR? No. Extensive, OPEN, PTR testing destroys hype, and significantly reduces the amount of time that new content keeps players interested. For Kronos's sake, we don't want that!

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would have Synced and Vanguard do all the PTR testing, and let all the other guilds wait for release to the live server. Sacrifice the "newness" for them, so they can work on their speedclear efficiency and help fix/tune, while keeping the content fresh for the rest of the server to enjoy later on. The more OPEN PTR testing we're all allowed to do, the less hype there will be for the actual release :(
 
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Joined
May 22, 2015
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#27
Honestly, if it were up to me, I would have Synced and Vanguard do all the PTR testing, and let all the other guilds wait for release to the live server.
I personally don't like that at all.

I would have either 1) faction-wide pugs supervised by GMs like we had for BWL PTR testing, or 2) every guild doing one raid supervised by GMs (who teleport players inside) so that even more bugs can be discovered due to diversity of tactics.

But no matter what the approach is in the end, I don't want Kronos players, including my own guild, to fully experience Naxx before it's even released. For me it loses the whole point. Therefore, I suggest downscaling of everything including agro range, patrol paths, damage, health, etc. so that it cannot be used as direct experience that would represent the exact state of the release. And for anyone who will now cry out "But then we might miss patrol/agro bugs!!" - well, does this realm not have some testers who know what they are doing? Can't they focus 100% on those "hidden" things and let players discover more raid and tactic specific bugs on nerfed content?
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
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145
#28
no one cares about server first except like 5 people on the server

the vast majority just want the values and scripts tuned properly
 

Bazzil

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Jan 25, 2016
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182
#29
As have been pointed out, the danger in making the test version identical to the release version is that the final release will become an anti-climax for the most competitive guilds who will be spending an insufferable amount of time on the test realm in preperation for it.

The danger in releasing the test version in a state too far away from the release version is that players won't have a chance to detect the issues that may be found in the elements we choose to exclude, which then also could lead to an unenjoyable release.

Personally i am very happy with the quality of the instance, and i would love you guys to see the full extent of what we've been able to design. However i think that making the test more exciting than the release would be counter-productive, and so it would be neccesary to adjust some things here and there to make strategic planning a little more difficult. As Chero said there will be an announcement tomorrow about how this will playout.
 

Moriarty

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Joined
Jan 31, 2017
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#30
Shard and Blackadder have some good points. As soon as you are confident that the bosses are working as intended you should close the PTR, and only have one wing open at a time.

And also please consider increasing boss health when the instance is released, so we cant just brute force and ignore the boss mechanics. It would be so disappointing if some guild just goes in there and oneshots Kel'Thuzad on first try. Make us wipe for a few days or more xD
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
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145
#31
Personally i am very happy with the quality of the instance, and i would love you guys to see the full extent of what we've been able to design. However i think that making the test more exciting than the release would be counter-productive, and so it would be neccesary to adjust some things here and there to make strategic planning a little more difficult. As Chero said there will be an announcement tomorrow about how this will playout.
I wouldn't worry about pleasing them. Most of these people want to eat their cake and have it too. You either get a properly scripted and tested Naxx or you get a blitz race to the end with script errors, improper values and other bugs They can't have both. Kronos staff should know by now it doesn't matter what you do, people will not be happy and will complain regardless of the decision.
 

varth

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Joined
Jul 26, 2016
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48
#32
The fact of the matter is due to the length that aq40 has been available and on farm on K1, Naxx will be fairly easy for most K1 guilds just due to the sheer amount of gear they will have equipped. To put this into perspective lets compare Kronos to the world first everything in retail.

Kronos C'thun died the first night which was August the 14th, for the sake of argument lets say Kronos releases Naxx on March 14th (even though it will certainly be much much later than that). So that’s a period of 7 months of farming the entire AQ40.

Retail : World first opening of the gates was the server Medivh on Jan 23rd, World First C’thun kill was April 25th, World first Ouro kill was April 26th, and Naxx was released on June 20th.

So in retail assuming you were world first at everything, you had access to Skeram – Twin Emp loot for 5months, Ouro and C’thun loot for 2 months.

So best case scenario K1 guilds will have 350% more C’thun/Ouro loot than retail world first everything, and 40% more Skeram – Twins loot than retail world first everything.

So the fact is that K1 guilds will blow through most of the bosses due to sheer gear, while k2 players will get a fairly blizzlike experience since they get around 6 months less of farming aq40.
 

Lildyo

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Joined
Apr 27, 2016
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59
Location
Ontario, Canada
#33
Lild, it's completely the opposite. If you give us same experience on PTR that we will have on live release, we will learn it to the tiniest detail and have advantage over others simply due to fact that we will breathe on all our members' necks until we are sure they are 100% prepared, and other guilds won't do that or their members won't accept it.

Undertuning PTR content so it cannot be actually used as full training ground for live release is actually means of making it more equal for everyone. Besides, it seems from your post that you think I want content to be easier? No, I want the content to be harder than Blizzlike (which they promised on Discord), but I don't want PTR testing to show us exactly how it's going to be since it's open testing for everyone to do as many times as they like (at least for a short period).

And all that equality talk aside, I simply don't want to clear Naxx on PTR 100 times before live release. Do you?

Edit: Did you not read Chero's posts? He said that .additem and .levelup will be added on next PTR update, which will be before Sunday PTR release. Your post is overall very confusing and seems out of place completely.
Sorry, I think my post was mostly in response to Shard asking for those options to not be enabled :p
 

voidzone

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Joined
May 3, 2015
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79
#35
Incase they keep Sapphiron and KT off of the PTR (Which imo they should to preserve some of the magic).....The main thing I want to see is sapphirons aura damage increased to double or tripple, so people cannot bruteforce it and people actually need to craft frost resistance gear with a need for frozen runes, so the prep for the encounter will actually take a bit of time and might not even be killed on the first night. (Shards evil plan might actually work buying all those frost resist items in /world!).

If double is too high you can always reduce it after a week, but most of the time it's better to have bosses need a slight nerf than a huge buff a week later, after they already died and the spirit of the encounter has been lost/felt underwhelming.
 
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shard

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Joined
Aug 20, 2015
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121
#37
welp, I see you edited your post where you asked that K2 be allowed to use their characters rather than having the .levelup and .additem features. Nevermind then
I never mentioned K2, nor the .commands in any of my posts. I think you must be confusing me with some other poster.
 

Wort

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Joined
May 3, 2016
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0
#39
will they update toons on PTR to current specs before this? mine is currently a copy from about 30 days ago
 
I

insec

Guest
#40
I was lucky enough to get to clear Naxx
same

[video=youtube;yDvGvdOghZ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDvGvdOghZ4[/video]

disclaimer: the shadow fissures were actually bugged over there 50% of the time individual people wouldn't see em x)
 
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shard

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Aug 20, 2015
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121
#42
same


disclaimer: the shadow fissures were actually bugged over there 50% of the time individual people wouldn't see em x)

That's blizzlike. Back then people would die all the time to Shadow Fissure on Kel'thuzad or Void Zones on 4H and claim that it was invisible on their screen.
 

Chero

Kronos Administrator
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
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741
#43
The aggro range will be reduced to 10 yards.
Players and pets will deal 50% more damage with every spell and every attack.
Creatures in Naxxramas will deal only 50% of their intended melee damage - spells are unaffected for proper testing.

Changed realm type to PvE.
 
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Dalloway

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Jan 19, 2015
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#44
Thank you for acknowledging our concerns through these measures, Chero, I really do.


In my opinion, it does not solve the problem, however. I have already talked to players in my guild last night about skipping the PTR entirely should testing be allowed to proceed for months on end, as it now will. It is true that this will preclude us from genuinely competing in the Realm First race this time, but I, as others, will have raided here non-stop for 2 and a half years by the time you will release Naxxramas, and the experience of clearing it with my team should not feel like drinking some stale, barely lukewarm coffee.

If we are to comply, by the time Naxxramas will be released, we will still have had it at our disposal for about 3-4 months, i.e. 90-120 daily Resets. What's more, this forces us to drag our entire guild cores into this over and over in order to be able to perform the testing.


It is ironic. The Synced, Vanguard, Irae, Risen, Onslaught, Agony cores, and tens of other leftovers scattered throughout the rest, raiding, as already stated, here for 2 years, to be 2 years and a half by the time Naxxramas is released, keeping guilds alive day in, day out, without a break, so Kronos wouldn't die. Just between us 4-5 raiding crews, we have geared hundreds upon hundreds of inactive accounts. Of course, Naxxramas release day, we will each have 50-60 players ready to roll. Meanwhile, we all grind farm content with 30-35, replacing half a dozen each month, for years, because we know that if we all went into slumber, there would be no Kronos community for anyone to return to during progress.

And now, on top of this, you're telling us we may go ahead and test it, guild-wide, for months on end. For fairweathers, the release would be crisp and perfectly scripted. For us, tired and nauseously familiar. Neither a couple of bugs, nor any realm firsts, are worth throwing away our most important Vanilla progress experience, in my opinion.


We have yet to decide upon a final course of action. Until then, we will continue to wonder why, as it happened for BWL, we couldn't have tested this through a 10-15 GM-supervised raids, comprising 2-3 representatives from each guild, scheduled over a period of 3-4 months. The problem with BWL's release was not that the bugs had not been detected and reported during that one testing raid, but that they were not subsequently fixed before release.

Thank you again for all you do, nonetheless, I know you always meant well and you are doing your best to help us all!
 

Chero

Kronos Administrator
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
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741
#45
We've been discussing this internally yesterday as well.

The Spider Wing will last up to 24th February, and the lockout will be 7 days instead of 1 as stated in OP.
This will give each guild 3 attempts to fully clear the Spider Wing.

As someone suggested above, we will be focusing on one wing at once, meaning every wing will be available just for a period of time.

OP Updated.
 

Topmong

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Apr 11, 2016
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181
Location
Finland
#47
Also it would be nice to have the ability to .learn engi/enchanting/first aid on fresh characters so we could play different races etc.
 

Brezel

New Member
Joined
May 9, 2016
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37
#48
So, how do you enforce the one ID per guild?

Everybody can make easily 10-20 copies of the same chars, just kill the boss, log the next one and so over.
 

epix

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Joined
Feb 19, 2016
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18
#50
someone messed up my 1h sword skill completely, cant even learn or level it anymore. since im tanking with 1h sword i need a fix on character epix

PTR had honor reset, cant equip rank14 gear anymore
 
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