Paladin Paladin problem in 10-19 WSG twinking

[Jobjorgos]

Hello,

Im posting this topic because i see a huge problem with lvl 19 pally twinks in the WSG bracket.

The mainly problem is the dwarf pally named 'Motto'.

He kills the whole bracket, by being the FC and keep running away, but because he got some kind of macro or script he does non stop blessing of freedom which makes him 100% resitance of any kind of stun or slowment debuff, horde have littarly 0% chance to kill him.

Even if the horde has the 10 best twinks, and they have only naked players, they will not lose any points simply because of Motto.

Paladins at lvl 19 are already way too overpowered cuz they have all kind of abilitys already that usual only a level 60 has. i still dont care about this, because im aware 100% balance is impossible in any game, and kronos is just a copy of the original game anyway.

BUT that the pally Motto is 100% stun resistance we horde cannot accept. He breaks the whole fun of the game, and when he joins, horde already have lost whatever they do or whoever they have. this is really unfair i think.

to stop him, some of our hordies made a lvl 10 ally pally to cast 'Blessing of Protection' on the pally Motto to let him lose the flag so we can keep playing in a fair way. because of moral reasons we never casted BoP on any other player any time, because we dont wanna cheat either. we said to Motto we keep casting BoP on him until he stops using non stop 'blessing of freedom' which makes him 100% invincible.

our plan worked, but then some of us got banned for a week including the level 10 pally for 'multiboxing in BG'.

Now my final question to the kronos staff: is there any chance that you can fix the paladins spell 'Blessing of Freedom' to have it a few seconds cooldown?

out of course we are already happy that we can play for free in world of warcraft best patch, vanilla. and we dont wanna argue that we got banned. but also i dont understand exactly why someone gets banned for 'multiboxing in bg' while nobody multiboxed? one of us made a lvl 10 pally on a new account on a seperate computer, joined only WSG when Motto was inside, and he was not non active.

so which rule has been broken here?

casting blessing of protection on the flag carrier is forbidden? why is it not forbidden to cast non stop blessing of freedom then?

i really would appricate it if you will make this clear for us.

greetz, Twinkaholics (guild)

 

[Kamchak]

Blessing of Freedom works for 10 seconds (16 with talents) and has 20 seconds of cooldown. So unless he casts it bypassing that rule, I do not see any way he cheated. You should check if there were other paladins who could have cast that blessing on him for non-stop effect. However, from what you've written it is obvious that your team did cheat.

so which rule has been broken here?

to stop him, some of our hordies made a lvl 10 ally pally to cast 'Blessing of Protection' on the pally Motto to let him lose the flag

It might not be explicitly stated anywhere in the rules, but when you have a battle of Alliance against the Horde, and you cast Alliance-only spell on Alliance player while playing as a Hordling, you do cheat the game.

I heard that you could not play as both factions on a single account on official servers. It seems like a good rule for such problems.

Paladins at lvl 19 are already way too overpowered cuz they have all kind of abilitys already that usual only a level 60 has. i still dont care about this, because im aware 100% balance is impossible in any game, and kronos is just a copy of the original game anyway.

BUT that the pally Motto is 100% stun resistance we horde cannot accept. He breaks the whole fun of the game, and when he joins, horde already have lost whatever they do or whoever they have. this is really unfair i think.

For a casual player, most of so-called 'twinks' do break the fun. So unless you want to remove them all from the game (I gladly would), I do not think your point of view will be accepted.

 

[Jobjorgos]

First of all thank you for the replying on this topic.

i dont know exactly how the pally is absolutely never stunnable, but might as you say, it is because other players cast some kind of dispell on him aswell (mostly he is alone but alright) however i still think the pally Motto is extreme too OP as flag carrier then. all other ally paladins just know how to play fair and are also just slowable. so the problem is Motto specific.


You said this in your comment:
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i said: so which rule has been broken here?

i said: to stop him, some of our hordies made a lvl 10 ally pally to cast 'Blessing of Protection' on the pally Motto to let him lose the flag

It might not be explicitly stated anywhere in the rules, but when you have a battle of Alliance against the Horde, and you cast Alliance-only spell on Alliance player while playing as a Hordling, you do cheat the game.

I heard that you could not play as both factions on a single account on official servers. It seems like a good rule for such problems.

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There are 2 kinds of rules, moral and formal rules. This has nothing to do with breaking any formal rules, so some of our players got purely banned by breaking 'moral' rules that are not noted anywhere specific, but horde that plays as a lvl 10 alliance aswell sounds as not fair out of course.


Then your reply on my request nerfing blessing of freedom for 19 pallys is this:
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For a casual player, most of so-called 'twinks' do break the fun. So unless you want to remove them all from the game (I gladly would), I do not think your point of view will be accepted.

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I totally agree it is extreme annyoing for non twinks to enter any lvl 19 bg anymore where always 50-100% are twinks. you have a strong argument there, and making everyone 100% satisfied in such huge community is out of course not possible. So there are always ups and downs to accept.

BUT from the other side, without all those twinks, not any 10-19 WSG would even ever happen! There is a huge lack of low level battlegrounds goning, people have to thank the twinks that 10-19 is the only low level BG bracket which is not dead! so acctually we are raising the fun of the non twinks. so do you still prefer all the twinks to leave?

And first you said banning someone does not requires to be a formal rule, if it breaks moral rules. for what reason do you think the 19 pally Motto cant be banned for this then? He also breaks moral rules by ruining the fun for the whole horde and might alliance aswell in 10-19 WSG?

he does not play in a fair way, but in a way horde have ZERO % chance to win any game, whatever we horde do, whoever we have! The only thing left that we then can do is turteling our flag aswell, which caused many times to endless many hours of 0-0 WSG turtle games which nobody wants i believe. We horde never turtle, and always aim for the win.

I really hope Motto will be stopped, and he gets a 1 week ban aswell if he keep doing it, and gets a request to stop casting non stop useing his blessing of freedom macro or script, because we really cannot accept this.

IF casting blessing of protection caused us to get a 1 week ban, why not for casting blessing of freedom?
both has the same moral rule broken. and it is always the pally Motto that starts with cheating, then our REACTION is to queue with a 10 pally and cast BoP to stop him. we never used BoP on a other player then Motto any time because we only aim about saving the 10-19 bracket, not making it more unfair!!

everyone is welcome and i be thankfull if anyone wants to reply this discussion

 

[Kamchak]

i dont know exactly how the pally is absolutely never stunnable, but might as you say, it is because other players cast some kind of dispell on him aswell (mostly he is alone but alright) however i still think the pally Motto is extreme too OP as flag carrier then. all other ally paladins just know how to play fair and are also just slowable. so the problem is Motto specific.

If there are two paladins, and at least one of them has Guardian's Favor talent (+3 seconds to Blessing of Freedom), it will be fairly easy to give constant buff to the flag carrier. If he plays by himself, it still does not mean he's cheating. There could be armour or trinkets or anything similar that gives him enough bonus to achieve the same result. I am not familiar with level 19 'twink' gear, and armoury does not show players below 20, so I cannot check this one.

However, unless you prove that he is exploiting any bugs to achieve his constant bonus, you probably won't be able to prove he's cheating, either.

There are 2 kinds of rules, moral and formal rules. This has nothing to do with breaking any formal rules, so some of our players got purely banned by breaking 'moral' rules that are not noted anywhere specific, but horde that plays as a lvl 10 alliance aswell sounds as not fair out of course.

IF casting blessing of protection caused us to get a 1 week ban, why not for casting blessing of freedom?

You logged into a battleground as an opposite faction to purposely prevent decent play of this opposite faction. If it's done be the same person, then it's multiboxing. If it's done by different people, it's victory trading. Both are against formal rules.

Battlegrounds are team PvP, and while moral rules forbid playing against your own team (in this matter it's done by your pseudo-Alliance players), I believe it could be a simple error that there is no formal rule on this. Once again, one can always say it's either multiboxing or victory trade. And it can be proven from your initial message.

And first you said banning someone does not requires to be a formal rule, if it breaks moral rules. for what reason do you think the 19 pally Motto cant be banned for this then? He also breaks moral rules by ruining the fun for the whole horde and might alliance aswell in 10-19 WSG?

This is argueable. If I had a player on my team who plays better than the rest, I would be happy for that.

Many people dislike me for playing and promoting devensive strategies on Alterac Valley. However, most of the games I've seen us winning were those where our defence was exceptional, and our attack simply did not screw up. And that we defended better than in regular short games does not mean we were ruining fun to those around us. We simply played the way we enjoy and consider having more chances to win.

If there is a paladin who uses legitimate ways to bring his team to victory, he ought to do so, and you won't do anything against it. Find a way to counterplay him, or leave battlegrounds until the next brackets. So if you keep on playing the same way against the same strategies used against you, I can say you're fine with how things are.

BUT from the other side, without all those twinks, not any 10-19 WSG would even ever happen! There is a huge lack of low level battlegrounds goning, people have to thank the twinks that 10-19 is the only low level BG bracket which is not dead! so acctually we are raising the fun of the non twinks. so do you still prefer all the twinks to leave?

I prefer all the 'twinks' to leave. They are not a solution to the lack of battlegrounds problem.

More than that, I prefer a player only to have one character, so that once anybody bypassed a certain bracket, they can never go back there. That might lead to more battlegrounds on higher levels with current population, and on any level if the population increases.

 

[Sinerp]

1. None of a class is unstoppable. 100% stun resist is not true of course and impossible. I saw many times he was stunned.
2. Problem not only about Motto - it's about Alliance tactics in general, using mostly paladins in latest games. Last 1-2 weeks Warsong Gulch 10-19 looks more like a Olympic Games instead of battleground. This is because most action that happen there is more about running instead of fighting. I definetly know that target of WSG is about to capture the flags. BUT such situation makes games last tirely long. And only WSG have such possibilities to last so long, not an AB or AV battleground, so there is a huge difference between low-level battles and 20+ battles and in this situation comparying high-level bracket with low-leve is not correct. Even WSG on 20-29 looks differently because of Aspect of Cheetah and Ghost Wolf. This is a reason why battles become extremely long. And this is main problem. Some players can have 2-4 hours of time per day to play such a style, but not the all. If you have 1 hour to play World of Warcraft and like 10-19 bracket, but you see that you can't even finish one game because of someone's "tactics", it can really sudden you as a player. And it's not some extraordinary case, so you need to find a more time to do WSG, it's a ordinary battleground, not a raid. Maybe someone like it more, but for me victory after 1-3 hours of running circles after efc is not even feeling so much rewarding. I'm to tired to feel good and that affects my mood and morale state, which affects my personal life.
Problem is much deeper and there are ways to solve it. All of them must be based on time limiting or time rewarding (or both), so players will know that they can't have this game lasting more than 20-30 minutes. Or if it still happens, every extra minute and effort put into it will serve you better reward. That what need be really improved.
3. Problem not mentioned here was that Alliance usually have much more healers in 10-19 bracket. So if you keep in mind that, 'turtling' in this situation is considered as a easy way and not demands to put as much efforts as Horde put into battle.

I have some thoughts about solving such problems and can tell more if someone really interested.

 

[Methos]

That's the price you have to PAY for playing a low level TWINK!
Either you keep levling or stay.

 

[Jobjorgos]

You logged into a battleground as an opposite faction to purposely prevent decent play of this opposite faction. If it's done be the same person, then it's multiboxing. If it's done by different people, it's victory trading. Both are against formal rules.

i didnot know about victory trading was a rule, but you are right indeed. which means the horde players that got banned is fair.

Last 1-2 weeks Warsong Gulch 10-19 looks more like a Olympic Games instead of battleground. This is because most action that happen there is more about running instead of fighting.

yes thats what i mean, freaking annoying and silly gameplay style.

Problem is much deeper and there are ways to solve it. All of them must be based on time limiting or time rewarding (or both), so players will know that they can't have this game lasting more than 20-30 minutes. Or if it still happens, every extra minute and effort put into it will serve you better reward. That what need be really improved.

if the kronos staff is able to do some changes like this, it would be very great i think!
im not sure if they are able to do that, but if they got the abilitys and time, might make a opinion for the players to let some kind of change happen or not. and if more than 50% agree with it, and atleast 10.000 players have voted it, the change will come in game.
This is also what they do in old school runescape servers for few years with great succes and most in the community are happy with it.

That's the price you have to PAY for playing a low level TWINK!
Either you keep levling or stay.

yep thats true, its still way more fun than retail wow atleast.
and like i said before that im already happy to be able to play a vanilla server and for free also.
we horde 19 twinks should try to accept this annoying paladin problem.

 

[Kamchak]

Problem is much deeper and there are ways to solve it. All of them must be based on time limiting or time rewarding (or both), so players will know that they can't have this game lasting more than 20-30 minutes. Or if it still happens, every extra minute and effort put into it will serve you better reward. That what need be really improved.

I believe later expansions introduced time limit. I personally am against it, since it wasn't there in classic WoW. If the battle is meant to be played infinitely, then let it be that way. If anybody gets tired of it, they can desert any time and free their place for those who are ready to battle right now.

Last 1-2 weeks Warsong Gulch 10-19 looks more like a Olympic Games instead of battleground.

I don't like it, but if Alliance found a way to win the games easier that before, then I approve it. I really disliked rushes in Alterac Valley last weekend, but if it works, it's good enough to use. Too bad it's more random than a confident victory. So if running instead of fighting give us a definite advantage at Warsong Gulch, I say we should use it.

I suggest you concentrate on defence and won't let your enemies take the flag in the first place.