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Pre NAX Gear change

Mileaos2

New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
bevare: this suggestion is for the release date, because with nax release this suggestion is obsolete!
1.12.1 is nice with its talent trees and stuff BUT!
(something i realised on ED)
MC/ony/ZG and so on are WAY to easy, until i realised the Problem:
5 man dungeon loot was reworked by bliz with the nax release.
before that addheal, hit, spelldmg and so on was very rare on items.
most had only stats. (so raidloot is more useful)
i played as mage on ed and the tiersets are nearly useless and i still have my blue equipment.
so my suggestion is to rework the 5man loot to the pre nax stage.

vor everyone:
bliz reworked the 5man equipment with nax release and those changes are the items you see in classic databases!
but with those items t1 and t2 contend is way to easy. you cleave through ony in a few minutes!
so the best solution would be to change those items the the OLD PRENAX state!
most of those items had only stats and no addheal or hit and so on
 
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Naxxramas won't be released on the initial server release if I'm not mistaking.
So theres no need to do any of this yet until much later.
 
@Rerun: I believe you misunderstood the subject. Mileaos2 is talking about preraid blue gear which is too OP in 1.12.1 (because of the Naxx release).

Decreasing dungeon gear OPness would be a customization. Devs have to be very careful with customization in order to not scare the people. It seems that they've chosen to custom raid difficulty (very carefully, starting from MC only, not just after launch, maybe not at all), not gear usefulness. Gear customization is too difficult to balance and too frightening (so bad for population online).

I think that the subject generally is discussed enough in threads about possible MC tuning. The short answer is "no", the long is "well, maybe we'll do something to increase some raids difficulty some day somehow, we have some ideas about it" (see http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/90204-Last-Week-s-Team-Meeting).
 
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hm, well its basicly no customisation. you just use the old stats from the old items, but i see the problem how to find those...
@rerun, 1.12.1 HAS the "new" items with addheal, crit andsoon, but the server starts with mc/ony at release, so those items are way to powerful und should be changed to the pre nax values
 
Ok...lets release server....play 1 year....then they release naxx and then can start this discusion :D
 
again this suggestion is for PRE nax, i have to redo this suggestion apparently, so everyone understand it properly
and i dont think nax will be released after just 1 year
 
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This is similar suggestion to reverting all talent trees to their previous versions. Lower raids as MC were balanced around the state of the game in the time of the release, that means old talents+old gear. After some time, there were new, stronger gear and talents, making lower raids very easy compared to what they should be, because the game in general was more concerned about the newest raid available (eg. Naxx) and it was very common to "nerf" old content in some way, even indirect.
Reverting talent trees and/or changing 5man gear would, in fact, very much add to "blizzlike-ness" of the very start of the server and difficulty of all lower raids so it would make sense, BUT it's really complicated to do, takes a lot of time and is kind of controversial, because it's considered to be "non-blizzlike customization", although it's not.
Due to these factors, there is a suggestion of compensating all of this by buffing the instances a little instead. Instead of having crap gear(lot of work)+crap talents(lot of work)+easymode instances(no work), have good gear(no work)+good talents(no work)+stronger instances(a bit of work).

TL;DR: Suggestion makes sense, but it's too much work for what little it would bring. And can be solved by easier solution, which was discussed elsewhere.
 
I think this is a bit too hard for one man standing.I remember my warlock's stats in early versions.He got 120spd and 6-7 crit in destruct.and he was lvl 60 and wearing some tier(dont remember).So yes it was far way harder to farm those raids with stats like this.But blizz redone not only stats, but the whole mechanic.So as i just said,you desire the impossible thing to be done.Vanilla will never be released once more, and there will be no timemachine or smth.All we've got,its our memories.And there will be no any private server that will return them to you.Not in the same way atleast.So
1) wait for Kronos
2) play on Kronos
3) get some nostalgiс feeling
Profit!!!:biggrin:
 
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Honestly this is not a bad idea but no one will ever make a 1.2.0 server, don't even dream about it:p. All I hope for is that they remove all post 1.9 crap, like silithus summons, D2 chains, and naxxlvl AD rare/epic armaments. Just grind your way up til AQ/Naxx and beat stuff that was even hard after the nerfs :)
 
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This discussion have been up and around several times before, the main problem with reverting dungeon gear to it's pre-buff state is the amount of work that would require, it's hard to find databases that showcase the individual pieces of gear from before the Naxx patch so the workload required to even figure out what stats the gear should have is overwhelming, let alone changing each piece of gear individually and then changing it back when the appropriate content gets released.
 
This discussion have been up and around several times before, the main problem with reverting dungeon gear to it's pre-buff state is the amount of work that would require, it's hard to find databases that showcase the individual pieces of gear from before the Naxx patch so the workload required to even figure out what stats the gear should have is overwhelming, let alone changing each piece of gear individually and then changing it back when the appropriate content gets released.

Ain't very hard to find the old stats. There are a dozen of databases from around 1.0 - 1.4 out there if you dig for it.
 
Hm, I can't find any (though that doesn't say much), but in most of the discussions about this topic this problem have been presented and I haven't seen anyone provide any links or the like to a database containing them.
 
I have seen argument "there are lots of old databases" few times already, yet still nobody provided link. I'm, for example, curious about item Alchemist's stone, if it existed in vanilla. There are clues but not solid proof, so i would like to see these old databases, but i was unable to find any.
 
I have seen argument "there are lots of old databases" few times already, yet still nobody provided link. I'm, for example, curious about item Alchemist's stone, if it existed in vanilla. There are clues but not solid proof, so i would like to see these old databases, but i was unable to find any.

It requires TBC mats to create, probably added in preparation patch for TBC. As for old DBs there exists plenty, and I'm sure Chero knows where to look. Just to give a general direction I'd recommend you look into older emulation projects from around the period, such as wowd. If you're finding results but no valid links to obtain it I'd recommend networks like rutracke, maybe betaarchive also holds some emulators for various versions of classic (and beta).
 
I'm, for example, curious about item Alchemist's stone, if it existed in vanilla. There are clues but not solid proof, so i would like to see these old databases, but i was unable to find any.

Dude accept it, there was no such item in vanilla. You might find the alpha versions of TBC trinkets, but those only exist in current vanilla DBs because everything today known as vanilla is technically "downgraded" from a TBC core. There are a buttload of items like Alchemist's stone, https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=12904 or https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=12090. These might have been present in the earlier versions of TBC, then got data mined and uploaded to DBs as existing items, which have later been removed from the game data. Let me repeat, there was NO SUCH THING as +40% heal/mana pot trinket or any vanilla version of that and we did fine without it:p

And I would like to see and old school DB too, where the items have their pre 1.4 or even pre 1.11 stats. All I could find was all the R7-R14 pvp items, nothing else:/
 
I've sayed that i'm curious about that. Afterall, in Kronos DB, there is a spell, that have Vanilla mats and creates item with ID that match Vanilla item IDs. I also thought, that it's nonsence, but I'm curious.. what IF curent DB is not correct?

BTW, what is downgraded is Core, not DB. DB was taken from mangos v 0.12 (last preTBC release).

But to the topic - If you want to revert gear stats, you need a solid blizzard source (like thotbott or wowhead). Private server or wowemu DBs are not relevant sources.
 
But to the topic - If you want to revert gear stats, you need a solid blizzard source (like thotbott or wowhead). Private server or wowemu DBs are not relevant sources.

They obtain the data the same way. Or used to. Also thottbot is not a reliable source, due to also having pserver data. Like I wrote, there are several sources available, often obtained separately, this means you can cross-verify the data. Also, the early data isn't made up, either the stats are there or they're not. If memory serves correct this is parsed straight from WDB files, which are cache files stored in(and by) the client, so the player's client can see item stats in-game by looking it up from the file on their computer instead of paging the server to send the stat data.

Re. Accuracy of Kronos' DB and spells: Prior to 2.0 all spells can be found client-side, so it doesn't reflect the quality of Kronos' DB, as it doesn't store the spells. Several misc spells for TBC exists in later versions of classic. Item ID does not reflect which version of the game said item belongs to, it only reflects at which point in time the item was created(Don't forget that IDs are simply incremented numbers that goes along with an entry so there is a way to address and identify it), and we all know TBC was in development throughout most of classic's life-span. :tongue:
 
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5 man dungeon loot was reworked by bliz with the nax release.
before that addheal, hit, spelldmg and so on was very rare on items.
most had only stats. (so raidloot is more useful)
By the way, where is this info came from? Ran through the patch notes 1.11-12 and haven't noticed such a thing.
 
the 1.10 release changed the 5man loot
thats the t0.5 release btw
could some1 dig up an pre 1.10 db?
 
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It would take too long time mate. After so many years people got so much better and know strats for MC perfectly so it's easy one way or another.
 
Mate, you found awesome archives :D Check drops from rare mobs !!! Maybe we can found some stats for NPCs and calculate their AP / armor etc.
Great!
 
IMO bug-free and stable blizzlike server is already a hard job to do, so let's give our devs a break...
 
The game has changed so much over the patches. There are a lot of post-aq features that are not available like the dungeon 2 sets, silithus gear etc.

Some people think that making some prepatch 1.11 reverts would make molten core more challenging. You need to understand in what cicrcumstances that molten core was the endgame raid of the game.

In early patches tier 2 still dropped in molten core and pretty much every single item in the game was different and dropped from different mobs. People had inferior talent trees, item drop chances were different, some items didn't exist yet and some items were removed. A lot of quests and rewards simply didn't exist.

UBRS was a 40 man instance in the beta, then it was a 20 man. It was a 15 man instance until patch 1.10. So in this patch we will be playing the 10 man ubrs, same for scholo: the 5 man not the 10 man version.

Everything was insanely imbalanced since blizzard didn't figure everything out yet. At that point they felt like every class spec could be viable.

Early on the game was hard becaus nobody even made it to molten core at that point, since there was no attunement quest for molten core yet you were supposed to get 40 man into molten core by the entrance that is inside blackrock depths. Thorium point was only added in patch 1.5 so there was no flight point either.

tier 1 for warriors pre patch 1.4:
http://web.archive.org/web/200502070141 ... ?setid=209

1.12:
http://web.archive.org/web/200512110024 ... ?setid=209

So warrior tier 1 didn't even have defense on it originally and the set bonuses were different. Having to script all those bonuses again would be a mess.

It's a waste of dev resources to revert all the items to prenaxx or even prebwl, there is no proof that it would make the game much harder. And all that work would be for nothing when bwl/aq is released. Dev are doing enough work to even get the game to patch 1.12. People would also pick up crappy greens because they know those are getting buffed later on.

People don't backpedal anymore, they don't keyboard turn, they know the classes, they know the boss mechanics and they have addons for threat, decursing and boss timers. Progressing will be faster. Simply buffing the encounters would be a much more efficient thing to do, but for me it is all balanced fine.
 
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