Progress bar

[nimeralos]

For the sake of the hype, do something with the progress bar on kronos-wow.com!
It scares people away, because 1) it moves very slowly 2) it shows that low-lvl dungeons are very raw.

Even those who «this progress bar means nothing» at heart sometimes «whyyy, why it doesn’t move, will Kronos ever come??». And those who haven’t yet understood that Kronos administration just doesn’t care about the bar a lot? They might think - «they won’t launch it until 2022» - and just forget about Kronos!

I see several possible solutions of this problem:
1) Remove the progress bar from your site.
2) Pay close attention on scripting things that are very incomplete according to the bar.
3) Just add some percents here and there You've added one waypoint to a patrol? Who said it can’t be considered as 10% for the dungeon?

 

[funfox]

God! Stop being so IMPATIENT!!!!!!!

The progress bar moves slowly because:

1: A progress @ 100% doesn't mean 100% of content is fixed/scripted
2: Why should i scare ppl away? It's widely known their aiming for release on dec 21, but may delay it.
3: Low-lvl dungeons are on the to-do list, can do everything at once.

This bar is merely there to give a somewhat feeling of how its going.


Also why spend energy on updating bar for EVERY single update? I mean that would often then mean the bar didn't even move 1%

You're aware of the ESTIMATED release, and you get the update videos.. isn't that enough?

 

[nimeralos]

Stop being so IMPATIENT!!!!!!!

That’s not about impatience I’m just saying that the progress bar scares people (mostly new ones). Why? Because it moved 4% in two month. When Kronos’ll be released? At least half a year to wait. The bar itself is making an impression of at least four month delay. If such an impression for someone who’s monitoring the site is ok, then ok.

 

[Phaze]

That’s not about impatience I’m just saying that the progress bar scares people (mostly new ones). Why? Because it moved 4% in two month. When Kronos’ll be released? At least half a year to wait. The bar itself is making an impression of at least four month delay. If such an impression for someone who’s monitoring the site is ok, then ok.

Dare I say that might be better than having people constantly asking "Why isn't it out yet?" with no progress metric, as sluggish at it is.

 

[Titan]

1: A progress @ 100% doesn't mean 100% of content is fixed/scripted

So the progress bars doesn't means anything!?

 

[funfox]

Titan what i mean is, that they can't just set the progress bar to 100% if the content is not scripted 100%.

- - - Updated - - -

That’s not about impatience I’m just saying that the progress bar scares people (mostly new ones). Why? Because it moved 4% in two month. When Kronos’ll be released? At least half a year to wait. The bar itself is making an impression of at least four month delay. If such an impression for someone who’s monitoring the site is ok, then ok.

They have announced that the progress bar may be incorrect.
They do still post vids often, confirming that progress is made.
They have announced they are aiming for 21. december but may delay it.

I don't get your idea of scaring people away. They are just telling the truth. If you want to play on their server, you gotta respect that.

 

[lolda]

Well if other private servers would be on the same level as kronos is now. They would have 300% progress bar maybe more:blink:

 

[Zed]

Goddamn, if your own opinion will scare others, just take a permanent maker and overwrite the bar, maybe it makes u feel much better...

 

[Chero]

The progress bar is there to roughly show the development progress for things listed there.

There are missing several HUGE aspects of the game itself, which cannot be named well or at all.
For example energy gains making threat and so. If a new bug appear, should we move it down? Or what would you like to say? Because all the time, new, secret bugs appear...

If you are really following Kronos, you should check out our bug tracker to see the real progress of the development. You would see that nothing dungeon related was fixed recently.

The bar will not move on demand, as we do not want to lie.

I don't see any reason the progress bar should scare newcomers away.

Pay close attention on scripting things that are very incomplete according to the bar.

Once we will take care about the incomplete stuff from the progress bar, it will be updated.

Just FYI, 20% here might mean 100% on other servers

 

[nimeralos]

There are missing several HUGE aspects of the game itself, which cannot be named well or at all.

For sure, that’s one of the sources of the problem. Maybe these aspects should be named somehow. You can add things like «Aggro Mechanics details» etc. just to keep the number moving. Or there should be some weights - Overall Progress shouldn’t be just an average from all mini-bars, because their importance differ. That’s essential, because

I don't see any reason the progress bar should scare newcomers away.

and there is a reason. People who are already scared away will never write their opinion here From what I see as the Vkontake group administrator (100 people BTW - haven’t you reconsidered «no official support» position to it? ) - a lot of people judging Kronos progress by the progress bar. When I tell them that Kronos is ok, the work is in full swing etc. - they seem «calm», but! The quantity of such a «doubting» people makes me think that there’re a lot of those who will never ask you or me or anybody, who never be «calmed» and thus never come here to play. An example is http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19&start=10#p286 - I can assure you, I saw many such examples.
Don’t get me wrong - you’ve explained the progress bar «conditionality», but I worry about that people who’ll leave Kronos before they get an explanation. About first impressions, advertising, about how Kronos look, not about what Kronos really is.

Just FYI, 20% here might mean 100% on other servers

Yep, I know it, I like it, that’s why I’m hyped and that’s why I care.

 

[Aieris]

Well, Nimeralos have point. Progres bars for low level content are, in my opinion, too low. All dungeons are working at average 50% in basic core.

To adress that "hiden progress bar" - Even if they make such a bar, it's impossible to show at it, what's fixed. For example, the threat problem have been reported about 2 weeks before and as Chero sayed, should he decrease these progress bars every time new bug is found?

 

[Zzuk]

Who gives a flying fuck about visual stuff not representing the reality? If you are one of those just go play peenix.

 

[Psojed]

Also, who said that Kronos will launch when the bar reaches 100%? For example, I don't expect the 20% @ Naxxramas to really rise before the release.
Maybe it's a bit misleading for some ppl that the widget is named "Coming Fall 2014"? When you open the link, it says "Development Progress".

 

[jorim]

I agree that the progress bar is subject to perception.

Because afaik we haven't seen any videos yet of instances so we are not quite sure what to expect of one that is 50, 75 or 100% done. It really depends on your standard.

Personally I forgot much about vanilla because a lot has been overwritten by private server experiences so I can't easily tell if something is scripted correctly. But the essential things I will notice.

So I would say it's a small effort to give us an idea what to expect from an instance that is done to a certain extent. Because a lot of projects make big promises but this only leads to disappointment. But either way i have a good feeling about kronos.
Does 75% mean the quests, bosses, linked mobs and patrols are more or less functional? That just some polishing is needed for animations, emotes and little details to get it to 100%, fully blizzlike? Or does it mean some mobs hit ultrahard or some pulls are badly linked or some door not opening causing the instance impossible to complete?

I think many people are eager to know what the standards are and maybe add it to the faq or simply the progress bar page.

I'll end with sharing my experience on Emerald dream. Shortly after it launched I went for a deadmines run. You have to consider that this is the first instance a new alliance player would experience on a realm claiming to have blizzlike scripts. So you would expect they put some effort in it to make a good impression. I think they considered it 99% done. I'm not sure if they even tested it once.

Anyhow this is what i remember:
- the patrols didn't move, just standing on their spawn position
- the rare boss miner johnson is always spawned
- when you shot door to pirate ship room pirates didn't come running to "check out that noise"
- When smite stunned the group he didn't fetch other weapons from his chest he just kept hitting you while you were stunned so keep your tank topped.
- mobs went loco if you were in the water
- the quest that van cleef drops could not be started
Not exactly what I expected.

Heck i'll throw in my Maraudon experience:
I know that today the pathing of all mobs in the maraudon cave leading to the portals is still broken causing mobs to run on the ceiling. The prophet also only spawns on server restarts in order to get the fifth part for the scepter and only one person of the group can loot it. Don't get me started on everything that didn't make sense in the instance itself.

Oh and after 2 years all the rare world mobs on ED still hit harder than an elite and drop no better loot than any other mob, so no greens whatsoever. Oh yea and seeing 3 stitches attacking darrowshire in duskwood is completely normal. And in wpl half of the mobs around the cauldrons hit like elites so those quests are somewhat impossible. I'll just stop i can go on for hours.
So yea everything works 99% there... Perception...

 

[dragonbane]

I think and hope that people check the forums or Kronos's youtube page, because that is what got me hooked, actually. Only being able to watch numbers rise would be devastating, so good job on making the videos - we always look forward for them!
When I played on ED, I was convinced that the server was well "fixed"... now that I found out that it wasn't taken care of this whole time, since opening - it made me leave that project for good.

 

[Phaze]

Goddamn, if your own opinion will scare others, just take a permanent maker and overwrite the bar, maybe it makes u feel much better...

I almost wanna make a "Kronos is 100% complete!!!" userscript that sets all of the bars to 100% for laughs :tongue:

I think and hope that people check the forums or Kronos's youtube page, because that is what got me hooked, actually. Only being able to watch numbers rise would be devastating, so good job on making the videos - we always look forward for them!

Likewise, their environment video (with pathing etc.) is what drew me in first. I... don't even remember how I found it. Must've been looking up stuff about vanilla.

 

[tristan]

:lol:



EDIT: Ok, uploading an image here it's kinda limited hehe

 

[valz]

Hurraaaay! :biggrin:

 

[jorim]

Hahaah

 

[nimeralos]

Who gives a flying fuck about visual stuff not representing the reality? If you are one of those just go play peenix.

And a lot of people will, especially those who haven't felt Kronos quality. Is it what we want?



Well, (as you already know,) I'm talking about advertisement, about (first) impression. I think it's important to attract people, and not only those who already attracted

One more suggestion: add a short example-explanation to the "full progress" page. BFD is 60% now? Tell those who see this number the first time what does it mean. Describe the features and to-do list. Just an example, you ofc don't have to tell about everything. You can also add something like "progress bar is rather rough, for detail please visit our bugtracker *link*".

It's better to advertise Kronos "full front", not focusing just on (perfect!) videos.

 

[Phaze]

One more suggestion: add a short example-explanation to the "full progress" page. BFD is 60% now? Tell those who see this number the first time what does it mean. Describe the features and to-do list. Just an example, you ofc don't have to tell about everything. You can also add something like "progress bar is rather rough, for detail please visit our bugtracker *link*".

Ooooh, this is a good idea, indeed. A changelog-ish breakdown of fixes/issues for each section would be excellent, but maintaining the information could be a pain in the ass.

 

[nimeralos]

Ooooh, this is a good idea, indeed.

Thanks, I hope those who're making a decisions here think the same

A changelog-ish breakdown of fixes/issues for each section

I was actually talking just about an example, which won't hurt those who'll write it, but will make every (new) player understand how high Kronos standards are.

 

[nimeralos]

Heh, you see?
https://www.facebook.com/TheProject...id=1506894346226824&offset=0&total_comments=6
http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/88557-Progressbar-79-!
People do care about progress bar itself, it's not just a rough informational feature, it's significant element of the hype. It means it's necessary to care about the bar And move it further regularly.

 

[Aieris]

Well, i guess, that progress bar on main page should show roughly "How close we are to the release" and upon clicking, there can be real numbers of what is and how done.