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Warrior Protection warrior guide

nimeralos

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Aug 26, 2014
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Moscow
#26
In 5 mans, you will rarely use HS
Ok, it explains a lot.
Yes, I see, you think that improving it is good for raids too, at least for the main tank. But there's no improvement in TS's build, that's why I've interfered :)
The heal is terrible compared to the X 1.5 damage you just took
Yes, I thought about it, if you have Y000 HP than it heals you on 3*Y0, which is baaarely enough to heal back the crit (x2 damage I believe..? Ah, nevermind, checked http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...rafting-Thread?p=498323&viewfull=1#post498323 - 1.5x for spells, 2x for melee attacks).

Anyway, thank you for the detailed info!
 

Tarinas

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Aug 26, 2011
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Ironforge
#36
Links broken.
I'm looking for a good tanking spec for a new 60 running 5 mans.
Any suggestions?

Thx!
hello,

so ill re-link talents from 1st page of this thread here:

1st post from thread:

Next
My preferred raid tank setup 3 tanks. if you have 4 tanks have 2 in Main tank spec.

Main tank spec: http://armory.twinstar.cz/talent-ca...000000000000000000000000000055250110530221051

2nd tank spec http://armory.twinstar.cz/talent-ca...000000000000550010000000000055250110530221001

3rd tank spec http://armory.twinstar.cz/talent-ca...035201050010500000000000000005050000400000000
Requires weapon swap macro to dps when only 2 tanks are needed, and to be able macro back to 1h shield if one of the 2 tanks drops.

2nd tank is on demo shout duties, piercing howl duties

3rd tank is on thunder clap duties - price you gotta pay to roll 2H warrior


Dungeon:

5 man tank spec: http://armory.twinstar.cz/talent-ca...000000000000000000000000000055250113530221231

I will suggest :
http://armory.twinstar.cz/talent-calc.php?cid=1&d=vanilla&tal=0500400000000000000505010000000000055250113500201001

as for 5man tank spec , with the howl is possible save from a wipe by kiting a bit
 

Abyxsal

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Aug 20, 2015
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Hollywood CA USA
#37
Thanks a lot for the links, that helps me out a bit.

One thing I'm noticing is that I generally feel very rage starved.

I'm pretty much in BRD these days and I mostly have just enough rage to keep up shield block and use revenge when it's available (love the stun), the occasional sunder and that's about it. Hardly ever shield slam due to lack of rage.
Wondering if it's my slow weapon and talents causing a lack of rage.
How good is unbridled wrath? and what's the consensus on using shouts for threat?

Thanks again!
 

Tarinas

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#38
hi,

i suppose that we are talking about tanking... so my 0.02$:
i had similar problems as you (rage management) and because im new in tanking i solve problems as follows: 5/5 unbridled wrath, 5/5 shield specialization (note: im 45lvl now, so BRD run probably will be little different/harder), in protection tree i have only these 5 points...

since i got some useful informations (http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...lp-if-possible?p=784406&viewfull=1#post784406) i simply pull 3-4 mobs, cast battle shout, revenge (if possible on main target), demo shout... at this point im keeping all mobs and have enough rage for everything i need and im switching targets to build some agrro with sunders or revenge etc.

if you have good healer witch mana pool the best thing is pulling continuously next group of mobs so you have time to build agro before your dps will make a move

i found that little faster weapon is better for me - i gain rage more quickly and its enough amount for using essential tanking abilities

sometimes when im dps in 5mans and i use battle shout in fight, i get agrro... so try battle shout first

good things which i use are sharpen weapon and shield with spikes :biggrin:

/sorry for grammar
 
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Abyxsal

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Hollywood CA USA
#39
I do similar things during the pull. I've found that using bloodrage and then battleshout will gain aggro on all mobs, but only a little. I'm going to try unbridled wrath and see if that helps.

Thanks!
 

Horo

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Aug 15, 2015
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Deutschland
#41
Put down some cash and get either:

[Scarlet Kris]

or

[Alcor's Sunrazor]

The first one is probably the most reasonable and it is much better than the above [Timeworn Mace], but the second has one of the highest threat per second value in the game.
No. This isn't ED. Tanks don't have a full rage bar 24/7. Racials wrt weapon skill do matter for tanks.
Take for example Quel'Serrar. Personally I believe the procc is worthless because it lacks consistency, but if you're looking for a threat weapon, then QS is a good starting weapon, especially on humans.

I still have my Silent Fang in the bank. It's incredibly useful for caster heavy dungeons like strat living.
 

Cpstabber

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Nov 17, 2014
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East Coast, NA
#43
Yes you should bloodrage AFTER the pull. Rage points gained = threat. Demo shout > Battle shout with multiple mobs. In fact if you have 4 mobs, spamming demo shout > rotating sunders, from a threat per rage perspective. You can also stance dance zerk rage then back to def stance for more rage from damage taken.

Battle shout aggro is based on how many people received your buff, divided by the amount of mobs on the aggro table. Demo is flat threat.


Being rage starved, yeah sucks but reviewing your comments, I am thinking you are not using the correct rotation, and losing a lot of threat per rage.

Pre-Raid, keeping shield block up should not be priority and should only be used to proc revenge AFTER you've already got revenge on CD. Which means Revenge > Shield Block > Revenge in that order.

Shield slam > Revenge > Shield Block > Sunder > Heroic Strike.

In a rage starved situation -

Shield Slam > Revenge > Sunder.

You can't always pool for shield slam in the beginning so you may start with Sunders until revenge procs itself, don't waste rage on shield block at the start. Wait to be crit on purpose and shield slam. (for a threat per second/rage perspective).


@OP 1H weapons - you should put a Mitigation 1H and a TPS 1H. TPS Alcors - Julie's Dagger.

Shield Enchant 7 Stam > 2 Block. Block values in full T2 at 168 block, coupled with already having 75% block and dodge parry count first, 1 block % = 1 stam in full T2. I'll post another thread with the math if people wanna challenge this.

Gloves and boots enchant 3 DEF coreleather armor kit. While the recipe is in MC, this is obtainable w/o stepping foot in raid.

@Quel being TPS due to Human.... no. With this arguement (because Heroic strike spam clearly wasn't being considered here) you would want a Vis'Kag Bloodletter. Quel does have it's place in this game however as a great mitigation weapon for opening raids while your tank has low def, the proc is up a lot and helps makeup for lack of gear when it does happen.
 

Horo

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#45
Being rage starved, yeah sucks but reviewing your comments, I am thinking you are not using the correct rotation, and losing a lot of threat per rage.
That's rich, coming from a guy who doesn't even know the correct approach himself.

Pre-Raid, keeping shield block up should not be priority and should only be used to proc revenge AFTER you've already got revenge on CD. Which means Revenge > Shield Block > Revenge in that order.

Shield slam > Revenge > Shield Block > Sunder > Heroic Strike.

In a rage starved situation -

Shield Slam > Revenge > Sunder.

Spamming shieldblock is absolutely viable for threat by using a Thorium Shield Spike attached to a Force Reactive Disc.

I'll always use shield block to get instant revenge even if you don't tell me to. It's by far the highest TPR move the warrior has.

Even if you don't have this shield: 5 rage for 2 blocks, that means shield block is 3 rage only. IBR gives you 15 rage immediately, more than enough.

I'd always go for

Revenge -> Shield Block -> Shield Slam -> Sunder Armor -> Heroic Strike.

You can't always pool for shield slam in the beginning so you may start with Sunders until revenge procs itself, don't waste rage on shield block at the start. Wait to be crit on purpose and shield slam. (for a threat per second/rage perspective).
"Hey guys, please wait until I RNG out block/parry/dodge with dps"

^ This is how a failure of a tank plays.


@OP 1H weapons - you should put a Mitigation 1H and a TPS 1H. TPS Alcors - Julie's Dagger.
Julie is a toothpick which doesn't deal any damage, generates no rage, no threat.
Alcors costs thousands of gold on the AH. Have fun.

Do you even play on Kronos?

Gloves and boots enchant 3 DEF coreleather armor kit. While the recipe is in MC, this is obtainable w/o stepping foot in raid.
I agree. Would put 3 Def on Chest as well, over 100 HP enchant. With ZG and Kings, 7 stam is 88.6 HP. On that note: If you want to place stamina somewhere on your gear that is Chest/Wrist/Gloves/Legs/Boots, do it on the Wrists. 9 Stamina is worth 113.4 HP to Alliance. On Horde I'd put +3 Defense on all 5 parts of the gear if I had no troubles with money.

@Quel being TPS due to Human.... no. With this arguement (because Heroic strike spam clearly wasn't being considered here) you would want a Vis'Kag Bloodletter.
You must not compare a weapon which is easily obtainable with money to a rare Onyxia drop.

Shield Enchant 7 Stam > 2 Block. Block values in full T2 at 168 block, coupled with already having 75% block and dodge parry count first, 1 block % = 1 stam in full T2. I'll post another thread with the math if people wanna challenge this.
About your 1% block = 1 stamina, I'm don't know about that, since I believe 2% block enchant on shield is absolutely worthless in encounters in which you only tank a Boss.

Love the post, very informative. It seems I am getting a link that do not load though.

8/5/38 - Link won't load
For 8/5/38, I'd go with something like this for raids. Personally I see little point in 3/5 TM, 2/5 is plenty. Improved Shield Bash is very useful for 5 mans and ZG.
 

Jahreno

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Oct 1, 2014
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59
#46
Maeng all this discussion.

I got %33-34 or so block with threat gear on if i go prot. Never felt my revenge uptime was bad, i always tell my group members that unless a mob with extremely dangerous abilities(fear, sheep, gouge), we should avoid CCing as more incoming damage=more rage. Tanking 4 mobs is easier than tanking 1.

I'd use this for tanking in actual 40 mans. Defense isnt a problem unless you're tanking Broodlord, Chrom or Nef. Should be fine with 410-420.

For 5mans other talents like improved Revenge, Imp. Taunt, Imp. Shield Bash and Defense talents are also useful. You obviously dont need an impale spec for tanking 5 mans anyway.



I would suggest Shield Slam on 1st target, revenge on 2nd and sunder back on 1st as you AA a couple times to 3rd target. If its 4 targets and if you can do it without aggroing another pack you can charge in and Thunderclap. Pop your bloodrage after all mobs have entered combat with you, each rage you generate is 10 threat or so i think. Its GCD free as well so it's not a delaying factor for your usual rotation.

Under 7 targets, buffing 5 members with Battle shout is superior to Demo shout spam. Battle shout max rank is 55 threat per party member-pets included- that you buff, Demo shout is 43 threat.
5x55 = 275/x>=43 only true if x=<6.

Shield blocking is useless imo(except to become crit/crush immune in bossfights), i am always ragestarved, if you are charging into a group of 3 mobs, a naked warrior with shield would have a %78 chance of avoiding something within the first second. GCD is 1.5 so whats the point of using it?
(UNLESS YOU SUCK AND TAKE ATTACKS FROM BEHIND)
 
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Horo

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#47
Giving advice on how to tank 5 mans with full best in slot gear from bwl.

Spec improved Revenge, cries about being rage starved. I don't even.

You know what, I won't even bother.
 

Jahreno

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Oct 1, 2014
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#48
Giving advice on how to tank 5 mans with full best in slot gear from bwl.
Naked prot warrior with shield would have %40~ avoidance, assuming you tank 3 mobs,

0.6x0.6x0.6 = 0.216

1-0.216= 0.784 = %78.4

yes this is truly full bwl bis gear ^^

You should not b using shield block at all.
 
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