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    TwinStar team

Idea PVE Server for those who don't like griefers

lunchyb

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Feb 10, 2018
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#26
In the context of the thread are you suggesting that higher population causes more griefers?
Just simple numbers. You'll also see more people who are getting griefed and who aren't griefing, but they aren't going to stand out nearly as much as those who're griefing, because they're not directly affecting your gameplay. And, in my limited experience on the handful of pservers & respective forums I've spent any time on, the environment really seems (to me) to foster/encourage that kind of behavior.

I'm not saying it would totally go away, but do you think this problem would be so prevalent if the population was capped at 3k?
 

lunchyb

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#27
You obviously did not read the whole thread, so i ask politely, you read it again...

Your statistics are pulled from what market research?

How much of the player based have you surveyed that are turned on by not being able to actually play the game?
I have read the whole thread; I chose to respond to one suggestion that's already been suggested.

No market research. As I said ("please read again"), I'm talking from my own experience. Numbers for the other two projects can be found online. As I understand it, twinstar avoids posting numbers (even avoiding accurate /who searches?); but they claimed on launch they peaked at 10k. I read that with my own two eyes.

You don't need to conduct that survey. Nobody plays to corpse run, but MANY accept it as part of the experience on a private PvP server. If many didn't, you'd be able to find a lot more PvE servers out there.

PvP = player vs. player. I agree with you that lowbie camping, corpse camping, etc. are all shitty forms of it, but they're forms of it, and they existed in Vanilla retail (though on a much smaller scale as the population was capped & spread out).
I play for fun, too; fun is reason I've moved on to a lower-pop server where none of this is an issue. And I'm enjoying the game there. Which is the point I was making: if this project doesn't suit the way you want to play, find one that does.

Regarding .join--getting rid of it isn't going to make the problem go away, but I could see it reducing the number of people out in the world, which might reduce the number of griefers in the world.
 
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#28
I have read the whole thread; I chose to respond to one suggestion that's already been suggested.

Regarding .join--getting rid of it isn't going to make the problem go away, but I could see it reducing the number of people out in the world, which might reduce the number of griefers in the world.
Your mistaken on a few things.

1. It did not happen in retail. Sorry. I played since Beta, my age is showing. You could simply move to another zone, log back in and the griefer would go away. Also GMs would step in at certain points and say enough is enough, move on. Why? I am paying to play (unlike here) and if I am not having fun I stop paying. Thats not the case here. Here, as I have said, you move zones, you still get killed. Just another group.

Someone said we are looking for a solo experience. No were not. You cannot group up a team of 5 in the 20s, 30s, 40s and defeat a 60. Resist, Resist, Resist, blah blah blah. Oh and if you get a team in the 50s well they get 2 60s and your back to dead over and over.

You said removing .join would not work. 100%? no the only thing that 100% would work is making it a PVE server and poof, its impossible to be ganked. But it might, hence progressive hypothesis testing, do enough that it vastly limits it.

You don't need to conduct that survey. Nobody plays to corpse run, but MANY accept it as part of the experience on a private PvP server. If many didn't, you'd be able to find a lot more PvE servers out ther
No they do not. They accept that they could be killed. No one accepts nor desires that to occur for 2 hours straight, zone after zone. That behavior is being allowed my the GMs. The only acceptance you can sight is when the player is dumb enough to login. But we did that on retail and we got changes as well.

Point of fact the game sucks right now.
 
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#29
Horde high levelers are literally camping the Dollannar area because of the spider PVP bug. If any admins available on a holiday weekend, they would be wise to put a stop to it in a big way.
 
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lunchyb

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#30
Your mistaken on a few things.
1. It did not happen in retail. Sorry. I played since Beta, my age is showing. You could simply move to another zone, log back in and the griefer would go away. Also GMs would step in at certain points and say enough is enough, move on. Why? I am paying to play (unlike here) and if I am not having fun I stop paying. Thats not the case here. Here, as I have said, you move zones, you still get killed. Just another group.

Someone said we are looking for a solo experience. No were not. You cannot group up a team of 5 in the 20s, 30s, 40s and defeat a 60. Resist, Resist, Resist, blah blah blah. Oh and if you get a team in the 50s well they get 2 60s and your back to dead over and over.

You said removing .join would not work. 100%? no the only thing that 100% would work is making it a PVE server and poof, its impossible to be ganked. But it might, hence progressive hypothesis testing, do enough that it vastly limits it.

No they do not. They accept that they could be killed. No one accepts nor desires that to occur for 2 hours straight, zone after zone. That behavior is being allowed my the GMs. The only acceptance you can sight is when the player is dumb enough to login. But we did that on retail and we got changes as well.

Point of fact the game sucks right now.
I started playing a few weeks after realease. It did happen, though (as I said) on a much smaller scale. The population cap/spread (as a result of server stability issues) meant there were fewer people to doing all of the the same things that people are doing now (leveling, griefing, dungeons, raids, profs, etc). Also, the world and dungeon and raid encounters weren't so familiar, so people spent more time doing pretty much everything PvE related.

I remember being "camped" meant being able to get away after +/- 2 deaths--and other level 60's would often come and kill the campers. In fact, the reason for killing in lowbie zones was often to draw out other 60's. I also remember moving to a different part of the zone (not even to another zone) would often solve the problem. But, about a year after release, there were at least four Alliance guilds on my server (Kil'Jaeden US) that would regularly raid XR, be at the gates at Org, patrol Felwood, wall-camp at Cenarion Hold, etc. And I'm sure there were Horde players doing it, too. These people existed then, but there weren't so many per server. (I also remember when they made flight masters tougher and gave them adds--an example of the devs' attempt to alleviate the issue.)

I hate when people say "play a single-player game then". As if that's what anyone's after in this game. As if people must interact with others 100% of the time in order to enjoy the game. It's like saying the server is "ded" if nobody's said anything in /world for 30 secs.

If people didn't accept this as part of the game, they wouldn't play. It really is as simple as that. But literally thousands are still playing through it and finding ways to enjoy it. Using my experience as an example again: I "accepted" competing for quest mobs and items for several hours, then went and found a server where I didn't have to do that. It wasn't so important to me to keep playing here (or other places) that I needed to "accept" that as part of the game. You make a very valid point about paying to play, but you're not locked in here--you're more than welcome to find a PvE realm that works for you.

And to add to that--why haven't you found a PvE realm that works for you? Why are you still playing here (assuming you are) and accepting this as part of the game? And, if converting to PvE and stopping the ganking/griefing (even if only to level 50) would make so many players happy, why aren't PvE realms more popular in the pserver scene?
 

nimeralos

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#31
.join sucks, because it encourages rankers to camp 48+'s and casual BGers to camp lowbies. In the beginning of K3, I've made a thread about it, now look - it happens!

I think Kronos is losing more players due to .join than it is gaining. But hey, they've made the decision already. .join has some benefits too. Maybe, most of the problems will more or less disapper when the population drops.

Now they need to fix Dolanaar, and honestly ban some griefers - to camp people in the starting area due to a bug should be considered a blatant exploit.
 
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#32
Now they need to fix Dolanaar, and honestly ban some griefers - to camp people in the starting area due to a bug should be considered a blatant exploit.
I reported it and the admin closed the ticket and suggested I "vote the issue up" in the bug tracker.
Could not have made a worse course of (in)action, Kronos.

What's worse is I decided to make a hunter and drive out the lowbie exploiters, and when I returned to fight them off they had a high level mounted fool doing the same thing but for no honor, just grief.
 
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#33
Honestly this must be an issue that is caused by a few certain horde players. I have not been griefed once and i am lvl 47 on my orc hunter now. I just dont understand why high lvl alliance players dont bother helping their low lvl friends and guildmates. Also, this is the perfect opportunity for epic world pvp, but no, ppl are just complaining. Btw crossroads was like permanently wiped out by alliance players, when i was playing retail vanilla. This is definitely not something new that came with private servers.
 

nimeralos

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#34
I reported it and the admin closed the ticket and suggested I "vote the issue up" in the bug tracker.
I'd answer "I did, but could you ban or at least warn those who abuse this bug while it's not fixed? Names are ...". Don't give up IMO, the GMs do have common sense, but they have to deal with hundreds of tickets and sometimes give generic answers like this.
 

Cr0wL0ck

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#36
World PvP was part of the game even before battlegrounds got introduced, i am sorry to break it to ya but take a look at your request... you are asking for a server change becourse you cannot stand dying... really ? you know that even npc's can kill you right ?...

You want a server change becourse you cannot stand the thought of being attacked all of a sudden by a faction that is the sworn enemy of your own and wish to instead have the factions act a lot more friendly...

at least come up with a better reasoning than crying... you could go to blizzards retail version, you can even find an abandoned pve server where you can afk farm like no one cares.

and what are they doing in Dolanaar ?... alliance are hardly ever inside that town to begin with aside from a very short time for leveling. if you wanted to kill alliance just sit outside SW or IF, your odds for kills is way higher.
 

Nzr

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#37
Similar to the ".join" script, enable players to enable or disable their character for PVP combat. Ensure that it has a serious cool down like a day or a week to avoid abuse by turning it off and on.

This basically enables both players to be active in PVE on the same realm. PVP is supposed to be challenging right, fight someone of your level and gear!
 

lunchyb

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#38
enable players to enable or disable their character for PVP combat. Ensure that it has a serious cool down like a day or a week to avoid abuse by turning it off and on.

This basically enables both players to be active in PVE on the same realm. PVP is supposed to be challenging right, fight someone of your level and gear!
..... Like a regular PvE server only more annoying...? Honestly, why don't you just play on a PvE realm if that's what you want? (That's not rhetorical--I really am curious what keeps people playing here when they clearly don't enjoy this aspect of a bloated PvP server.)

And PvP isn't supposed to be anything other than the ability to attack and be attacked by other players; it does not take into account how or when or how many or what level.
 

Cr0wL0ck

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#39
This basically enables both players to be active in PVE on the same realm. PVP is supposed to be challenging right, fight someone of your level and gear!
yea... no... how often do you stand still in a battleground to analyze mana, health and visible gear judging if they are equal to you ? same principle in world pvp... either you attack first or you get attacked, few times i am helpfull i help them kill stuff for awhile and when they are done with their quest they attack me as an attempt to get some honor along with that help...

pvp is pvp and thats the basics of it, if you fear pvp then pre-pare countermeasures like invissibility potion/trinket or things that increase your speed or cc them.

Also if you want a PvE server then go to a pve server, just expect it to be mostly dead, i dunno why so many who want pve server stick around here rather than move on ?... oh wait... the pve servers everywhere else are dead... why should kronos make the same mistake and host a pre-doomed server ?

next thing ur gonna complain about bluewalling... ya know when a person not flagged attacks a flagged target... in short there will be no end to cries over things one person finds unfair from their perspective...
 
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#40
yea... no... how often do you stand still in a battleground to analyze mana, health and visible gear judging if they are equal to you ? same principle in world pvp... either you attack first or you get attacked, few times i am helpfull i help them kill stuff for awhile and when they are done with their quest they attack me as an attempt to get some honor along with that help...
Believe me, I am cool with all of that. Once you begin to get into zones where both sides have quests hubs like Ashenvale and Stonetalon, it's free for all. In a perfect game those zones would have similarly leveled enemies and I welcome the risks and fun that entails.

Unfortunately that is not the issue I see. I am talking about zones where high level people are simply going to grief players. Zones being griefed that the griefing faction has no reason to be in. I am talking about those individuals persistently camping, and despite being perhaps killed a few times by defenders, can simply continue to do so because they need only run back from the GY and rez with no damage to their gear. In World of Sunderwearcraft, once killed in world PvP you would be booted back to your hearth location. NOT the nearest graveyard.
 

lunchyb

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#41
In World of Sunderwearcraft, once killed in world PvP you would be booted back to your hearth location. NOT the nearest graveyard.
Would your hearthstone go on cooldown as well? And would this also apply to the people getting "griefed"? 'Cause I think that'd be just as annoying, at times more annoying. Is that where you'd GY rez as well if you didn't want to corpse run? What if the "griefers" had wiped out the inn where you're hearthed?

And really, that's like 3 zones per faction. I don't think it's an awful idea, I just don't see it making a huge dent. People are resourceful and they'd find a way around it or just put up with it.

TBH, I really think this is a big part of the game for the "griefers". Rush to 60 at fresh start; all the content is so familiar that they know exactly how and what to get when; then camp these zones till next update. And now you have, say, 5k or more players who know the quickest way to do that instead of 3k people who are all learning the game.
 
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#42
And really, that's like 3 zones per faction. I don't think it's an awful idea, I just don't see it making a huge dent. People are resourceful and they'd find a way around it or just put up with it.
If it is just a handful of zones then even better. Instead of inns, transport the tresspassing players to the graveyard closest to their hearth inn. It should be easy enough to differentiate between a faction and it's "proper" zone and compare it. Perhaps Silverpine would send alliance to their hearth (at worst South Shore) zone GY and horde to the silverpine GY. If in Redridge a horde would be sent to their hearth zone GY and alliance to the Redridge GY.

That way there would be actual risk for griefing a tresspassed zone, and the "proper" faction in zone would actually have a tool to combat griefers in a meaningful way.

Again this would only apply to zones with only one faction's quest hub.
 
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#45
Crowlock, you are not analyzing all the facts.

You mentioned you can get killed in the real world....I am assuming you mean the real world of wow. And yes if you die you have to run back. But yes you do analyze your mana, level of toon etc. No one but a complete moron goes from Elwyn Forest and then quests at Morgan's Vigil. Look at the level differences. You do analyze appropriate level guides etc. So this part of your theory does not hold water.

Again, I am not against PVP. This is not PVP. Having 60s camp out all day in Redridge, Darkshire, etc is NOT PVP. PVP assumes you have a chance to fight back. In early Vanilla days horde were way outnumbered on quite a few servers so the developers spawned guards like crazy. Yes we had World PVP before BGs and yes Southshore vs Tauren Mill was the norm. But Tauren Mill would spawn high level guards that kept things in check. What high level guards are being spawned? Umm None. So at the very least Alliance and Horde quest zones should have some pretty good guards spawn. (That is probably much harder to program).

Here is an EVEN easier solution. It takes no code change and it does not remove PVP. Simply change the Terms of Service that griefing is now bannable for 30 days. And to clarify I would say Griefing is 15 levels difference where you are simply corpse camping. Since corpse camping is legal. There no technical changes. Just band the deuche bags.
 

lunchyb

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#46
If it is just a handful of zones then even better. Instead of inns, transport the tresspassing players to the graveyard closest to their hearth inn. It should be easy enough to differentiate between a faction and it's "proper" zone and compare it. Perhaps Silverpine would send alliance to their hearth (at worst South Shore) zone GY and horde to the silverpine GY. If in Redridge a horde would be sent to their hearth zone GY and alliance to the Redridge GY.
That way there would be actual risk for griefing a tresspassed zone, and the "proper" faction in zone would actually have a tool to combat griefers in a meaningful way.
Again this would only apply to zones with only one faction's quest hub.
Just for clarity, Redridge is a contested zone, Silverpine is not.
So, imagine you're a lvl ~35 Horde and trying to get the Kargath FP. You either run south from Arathi or north from STV--both require you to go through Alli territory. So if some Alli kills you along the way, you're "trespassing", and you end up back at either Hammerfall or Grom'gol and have to corpse run and hope they let you live.

Or, imagine you're an Alli warlock and need to run to the Barrens (Horde territory) for a few quests. You're killed by Horde while trespassing and have to go back to wherever you're bound. Or you're Alli and one Horde rogue is camping the FP at Ratchet. Or you just want to do RFK or SM.

Again, not a horrible idea, but it would require making big changes to the world. And TBH, it really just sounds (to me) like you want to make it more "difficult" for Horde to camp Redridge. Redridge is camped hard because it's contested, Westfall is not because it's not.

And I was basing my reasoning on being able to hearth, but if we're talking quest hubs, then it's even fewer zones--I can think of 3 contested zones w/o any Horde quest hubs and 0 w/o any Alli quest hubs. Meaning every contested zone that has quests for Horde also has quests for Alli, and not the other way around. Which, again, really only makes this more difficult for Horde to "grief" and makes no changes for Alli.
 

lunchyb

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#47
PVP assumes you have a chance to fight back.
PvP assumes nothing other than players (including you) can attack other players (including you). I agree that people shouldn't be dicks and some of this kind of behavior should have consequences, but choosing a PvP server means you accept that this kind of behavior is possible in your game.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Griefing:
These actions, although some may see them as dishonorable, are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by gamemaster staff.
Blizzard isn't against griefing behavior when there's a PvP remedy (if you can get together a group of allies to trounce the offending party or simply kill all the mobs quickly, the problem is solved), but when the griever is impossible to attack (is not set PvP, or is of the same faction as his targets), there is no such PvP remedy.
Griefing like corpse and graveyard camping can be prevented on PvE realms simply by turning off your characters PvP flag.
 

Rockmaster

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#48
The more i read all these threads i get the urge to wipe low lvl alliance towns daily, once i get to 60. why? Because i can!
 

lunchyb

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#50
Not that there's any choice though.
Kronos is not the only pserver project that exists. I know of at least one dedicated PvE server that's hoping to take in a lot of migrants from LH when their PvE server becomes PvP next week.
Also, nobody is forcing these people to play this game at all.
 
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