Zipzo
Authorized
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2015
Yo.
First of all spare me as I'm aware of the stigma of Subtlety in vanilla raids and I'm aware that Combat is ho-ho-ho "way" better. I'm aware that 1k AP is the arbitrary number people have stated is necessary for Subtlety to be somewhat "OK" in a raid setting. I've done the google rounds too, I get it.
This is more to actually discuss and put forth information surrounding the concept of actually playing PvE Subtlety and how to maximize it (this assumes using Hemo, but nothing else specifically).
I have been testing it the last few days in 5m dungeons and in general just farming, and I plan to give it a wack in a raid just for shiggles to see how well I can try to keep up with the other rogues. I'm currently running 20/0/31 (hit capped without precision). I have a Vis'kag in the MH and a CHT in the OH, and my AP is 814 unbuffed.
At least on 5m bosses that last longer than 5 seconds, the damage seems competitive and actually quite good, but this also assumes the boss lives long enough to see the back end of my initial Garrote tick (Taking advantage of opportunity).
I pre-med > Garrote > SnD > Hemo to 5 CP > Rupture/Eviscerate > Vanish when Garrote is off and re-Garrote > repeat above > Prep > Vanish in to Premed and Garrote. I also specced Ghostly Strike (for lack of PvE centric options) and I use it on CD in place of hemo when it's up as it has higher damage than hemo for only 5 more energy (though I could test this more). Essentially this assumes I'm allowed at the very least 2 debuff slots, one of those being only occasional the other consistently applied, one for Hemo and the other for the occasional Garrote. Rupture only benefits myself so it's unlikely any raid would be accepting despite it's (very) competitive damage when specced. Obviously any Rogue bleed in a raid tends to pop eyebrows from people who are very stuck in their ways (NO DEBUFFS XEPT LOCKS AND STUFF).
So let's have a dialogue, friends. What do you think? Have you tested it in a raid setting versus your other rogue-mates playing combat (while having acceptable gear of course)? Do you feel the hemo debuff is "worth it" assuming Subtlety is significantly worse than Combat by a notable amount? Let's chat and pool the information we have because I've found that detailed information on this is growing increasingly more difficult to find.
It would seem you want as much AP as you can get and Maladath seems like a must as well, for starters. You'd have to justify the damage gained from the hemo buff to your entire raids melee over the debuff slot it would take.
First of all spare me as I'm aware of the stigma of Subtlety in vanilla raids and I'm aware that Combat is ho-ho-ho "way" better. I'm aware that 1k AP is the arbitrary number people have stated is necessary for Subtlety to be somewhat "OK" in a raid setting. I've done the google rounds too, I get it.
This is more to actually discuss and put forth information surrounding the concept of actually playing PvE Subtlety and how to maximize it (this assumes using Hemo, but nothing else specifically).
I have been testing it the last few days in 5m dungeons and in general just farming, and I plan to give it a wack in a raid just for shiggles to see how well I can try to keep up with the other rogues. I'm currently running 20/0/31 (hit capped without precision). I have a Vis'kag in the MH and a CHT in the OH, and my AP is 814 unbuffed.
At least on 5m bosses that last longer than 5 seconds, the damage seems competitive and actually quite good, but this also assumes the boss lives long enough to see the back end of my initial Garrote tick (Taking advantage of opportunity).
I pre-med > Garrote > SnD > Hemo to 5 CP > Rupture/Eviscerate > Vanish when Garrote is off and re-Garrote > repeat above > Prep > Vanish in to Premed and Garrote. I also specced Ghostly Strike (for lack of PvE centric options) and I use it on CD in place of hemo when it's up as it has higher damage than hemo for only 5 more energy (though I could test this more). Essentially this assumes I'm allowed at the very least 2 debuff slots, one of those being only occasional the other consistently applied, one for Hemo and the other for the occasional Garrote. Rupture only benefits myself so it's unlikely any raid would be accepting despite it's (very) competitive damage when specced. Obviously any Rogue bleed in a raid tends to pop eyebrows from people who are very stuck in their ways (NO DEBUFFS XEPT LOCKS AND STUFF).
So let's have a dialogue, friends. What do you think? Have you tested it in a raid setting versus your other rogue-mates playing combat (while having acceptable gear of course)? Do you feel the hemo debuff is "worth it" assuming Subtlety is significantly worse than Combat by a notable amount? Let's chat and pool the information we have because I've found that detailed information on this is growing increasingly more difficult to find.
It would seem you want as much AP as you can get and Maladath seems like a must as well, for starters. You'd have to justify the damage gained from the hemo buff to your entire raids melee over the debuff slot it would take.
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