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Information PvP Timeline and Decay Cap changes

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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162
#52
@Sarei
Hold on... when did i speak of D1 ?
You speak as if i said D1 was overpowering or such however fact is i have not said a word about D1... trying to trump things up now ? keep things relevant to what is being said & discussed... you spoke of D1... i did not even respond to D1 and that is a fact... man....

If you want my honest opinion with D1 you could have asked me... and for the record D1 is kinda garbage with a few notable pieces it was added as a catchup system afterall back in the day so there would be no danger adding it earlier than it originally was if you ask me but could you stop trying to put words into my mouth that i havent said ?

Most warrior & paladins use the crafted items early on over the ranked items anyways and if PvP rewards are too rewarding then raiding becomes less important thus messing with the balance, also you cannot put fun & paladin in the same sentence... paladin means easy mode and nothing that is easy is ever truly fun in the long term... maybe for a few minutes & hours but then it gets boring...

Anyways back to the topic...
PvP gear was gradually updated to follow the scale of PvE as to not fall behind so if you give people the upgraded stuff way too early then ofc they will try get that over the alternative PvE solution... heckall pvp ranks & upgraded gear was out on release i would pvp non-stop on release until i reached R11 or 14 and then relax however with upgraded gear first coming later i will get a bit early play pvp for the fun and when the upgrade comes get re-hyped once more to get the new stuff.

If PvE & PvP gear is too out of sync we will have a few select that will top the rankings without having to compete and all due to not having a job or going to school and that would remain for nearly a year....

and last but not least my apologies in regards to the R14 i truly skimmed your message but in my defense you where not much better off considering the D1 case...

also yes i was a tester but being a tester does not exactly mean you need to be omnipotent and know it all but rather you need to know how to dig up stuff and where to dig etc. and then test... but being a tester uses a lotta time that could be used to play so i never intended to be a tester forever heck originally my plan was to only be it during the beta phase to help things as best i could but as fate would it i kinda stuck around but with K3 i intend to play more...

I am human so am i not allowed to make errors like you have proven you are able to ? man thats prejudice... just becourse i offered the server a free hand with digging & testing you use that trying to ridicule really ? quite low stooping to that but ok...


@sycvil
So 1.11.0 or 1.8.0? :p Both are wrong actually, ranking system came in 1.4, later patches just upgraded already existing r14 weapons and added new ones. The needed history is in the announcement message:
Read the links i gave you i did not speak of the ranking systems introduction but the gear... anyways i guess i have to open the link and post whats contained within as you are unable to...

patch 1.11.0
  • In an effort to keep their armies better outfitted the Horde and Alliance have both taken it upon themselves to update their available rewards.
    • An updated set of armor rewards have been added to vendors for Honor ranks 7, 8, and 10.
    • The armor rewards for Honor ranks 12 and 13 have been increased in level and stat point allocation.
    • New rank 14 weapons have been added! In order to give casters the same diversity of selection that melee currently enjoy we have added new caster items that are available to be purchased by Grand Marshals and High Warlords.
Also patch 1.8.0 was when when Dragons of Nightmares released as i stated... on Kronos the pvp changes from 1.11.0 happen when dragons come out according to the time line... in other words 1.8.0.... man i feel a headache explaining to an ********.
Yes i censored my own insult as there is no reason to be hurtful towards ya but man....

Anyways you are correct in regards to 1 matter and that being the 3rd set being of a different rank which is my bad yes however the fact i tried to point out remains the same... set bonus changed along with the gear when it was buffed...
 
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Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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#53
I didn't respond to you about D1, I just added it over there as a part of my overall opinion about the gear at the start of the server, I probably should have stated that. The only thing I discussed with you were PvP items.

Paladin was just an example of how bad and useless old R10 is for that class, it's the same story for most other classes, whereas updated one is on par and in sync with MC gear. Old, unupdated sets aren't even on par with dungeon gear, let alone MC one and you said it yourself that you want a balance between PvP and PvE gear. That's all I'm saying, about R13 sets and R14 we all agree, they are too OP and they shouldn't be updated up until a bit before AQ.
 

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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162
#54
I didn't respond to you about D1, I just added it over there as a part of my overall opinion about the gear at the start of the server, I probably should have stated that. The only thing I discussed with you were PvP items.

Paladin was just an example of how bad and useless old R10 is for that class, it's the same story for most other classes, whereas updated one is on par and in sync with MC gear. Old, unupdated sets aren't even on par with dungeon gear, let alone MC one and you said it yourself that you want a balance between PvP and PvE gear. That's all I'm saying, about R13 sets and R14 we all agree, they are too OP and they shouldn't be updated up until a bit before AQ.
True paladins where in a very.... very bad kinda hilarious state back then however they still had the blacksmith gear & devilsaur stuff that warriors also rely heavily on.

True i want to see balance between them but raid & pvp are not the only sources we still have rep & crafting along with a few very rare drops.

true the dungeon 1 upgrade set would be great... afterall the dungeon 0.5 is useless and is mainly used for vendor/disenchant and D1 requires a lot of gold & effort + its not overpowering.

true R13-14 should wait until sometime near AQ so they do not shake the balance too much yet still have importance.
 

varth

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Joined
Jul 26, 2016
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48
#55
I'm hearing this again and again, which pieces?
-Lionheart Helm
-Truestrike Shoulders
-Savage Gladiator Chain
-Sacrificial Gauntlets
-Titantic Leggings
-Chromatic Boots
It's kinda sad had uninformed you are. Savage gladiator chain probably wont be available in its 2% crit 13agi 13str form, titanics wont be available until after AQ, and sacrificials wont be available until after AQ. The 2 set bonus from r8 of chest + legs is bis, or the 2 set legs + shoulders is bis depending what combo you want to use.

It's pretty cute all those catch up items you think will be available.
 

Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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396
#56
@Cr0wL0ck
I meant only D1, what you meant by "a lot of gold & effort" is D2, and those sets are actually really, really good, they shouldn't be out at start.

And that's exactly what I mean't by how bad paladin gear was, whole gearing of paladins and shamans at start is based around MELEE stats, literally worst possible way to play those classes, hence making the available gear useless. R10 for those classes doesn't have any healing nor spelldamage, so you are bound to cripple yourself and run around as retribution and enhancement and be a burden & annoy everyone, unless you wanna do it properly and play in some BRD cloth items. Same goes for warlocks who don't get any SP from their R10 gear and they are better off playing in dungeon stuff, etc., the list goes on. That's how bad old R10 sets are, even at the start of the server whereas updated one is more balanced with MC stuff, but still worst for many classes.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
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#57
@Cr0wL0ck
I meant only D1, what you meant by "a lot of gold & effort" is D2, and those sets are actually really, really good, they shouldn't be out at start.

And that's exactly what I mean't by how bad paladin gear was, whole gearing of paladins and shamans at start is based around MELEE stats, literally worst possible way to play those classes, hence making the available gear useless. R10 for those classes doesn't have any healing nor spelldamage, so you are bound to cripple yourself and run around as retribution and enhancement and be a burden & annoy everyone, unless you wanna do it properly and play in some BRD cloth items. Same goes for warlocks who don't get any SP from their R10 gear and they are better off playing in dungeon stuff, etc., the list goes on. That's how bad old R10 sets are, even at the start of the server whereas updated one is more balanced with MC stuff, but still worst for many classes.
I understand that those sets are useless untill they get updated, but why is that so bad? First of all they get updated by itself, no need to rank and buy again. Secondly, it finally makes gearing up a little bit different for once. It is extremly boring to me seeing ppl in the same gear all the time. It forces ppl to get creative and do some things differently for once. The private server scene became too much focused on min/maxing imo. Adapt to the new situation.
 

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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#58
depends a bit on class but yes, by gold & effort i mean farming quest & paying a small fee of gold at certain parts of the quests.
and true if it was out on release it would be a bit too strong, maybe when bwl releases etc ? :) to be honest i never used the dungeon set aside from having fun with the fear proc that the warlock set had, funny enough that was during the original vanilla and i played a mage... yup i was a newb back then but i had a blast ^^ frost mages are a true pain to catch if you play a melee and the mage is running away XD

as rock just said... its fun if every foe you face is unique to some extent ^^
 

Oidd

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Aug 27, 2014
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Greece
#59
who the fuck is going to pvp heal as holy paladin for 10 months with a set that only has melee stats?
he will either raid for pve gear or play as ret.

in both cases the problem is that PVP INTEREST AND POPULATION WILL BE SMALLER and that affects us all negatively

why do we keep repeating the same things?
 
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varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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#60
Is it really pvp interest if the only reason they are doing pvp is for the upgrades? Oh darn it, the gear whores won't pvp now.... man what a huge loss.
 

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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#62
well if its only less holy paladins or gear whores who only play until they got gear and then stop then is it truly a loss ?
not really that many that reach a high rank anyways.
 

Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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#63
@Rockmaster

It's not about the gear itself, but an actual gameplay experience. I personally don't care about gear whatsoever, depending of a class, I'm perfectly happy with high level "of the eagle" greens.

BUT, most people play for gear and the sense of character progress via those items. Battlegrounds will be way, way, way less active if people don't get some useful reward from it. I'm sure we all know that most rankers play BGs for gear, rather then PvP and that way make that aspect of the game active. With no rewards, only an actual PvP enthusiasists will que for BGs and they are sadly in minority, which will make BGs scene rather boring with small sample of people queuing.
The other reason is that some classes as stated above will have no other choice but to raid if they wanna get any decent gear,. There's a lot of people who are not interested in raiding but find updated R10 gear good enough to play with, while the gear is not too good for the current patch and it just keeps deteriorating as the time pass by, but it's still playable since you get useful stats, unlike with old blue sets
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
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#64
In the beginning there is one raid night to clear all content. If you really want to rank i think you can manage to do some raids to get some gear as well. By the time you reach rank 10+ you should have enough healing gear anyway. Talking about a paladin btw.
 
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#65
@Rockmaster

It's not about the gear itself, but an actual gameplay experience. I personally don't care about gear whatsoever, depending of a class, I'm perfectly happy with high level "of the eagle" greens.

BUT, most people play for gear and the sense of character progress via those items. Battlegrounds will be way, way, way less active if people don't get some useful reward from it. I'm sure we all know that most rankers play BGs for gear, rather then PvP and that way make that aspect of the game active. With no rewards, only an actual PvP enthusiasists will que for BGs and they are sadly in minority, which will make BGs scene rather boring with small sample of people queuing.
The other reason is that some classes as stated above will have no other choice but to raid if they wanna get any decent gear,. There's a lot of people who are not interested in raiding but find updated R10 gear good enough to play with, while the gear is not too good for the current patch and it just keeps deteriorating as the time pass by, but it's still playable since you get useful stats, unlike with old blue sets
Sadly you are propably right.... i see the gesr rewards as a nice side effect to pvping, but not as the goal, but i am with a minority here as you said.
 

maredasan

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Oct 13, 2014
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#66
It's kinda sad had uninformed you are. Savage gladiator chain probably wont be available in its 2% crit 13agi 13str form, titanics wont be available until after AQ, and sacrificials wont be available until after AQ. The 2 set bonus from r8 of chest + legs is bis, or the 2 set legs + shoulders is bis depending what combo you want to use.

It's pretty cute all those catch up items you think will be available.
I c, sorry I only played actively on K1, back then everything was available from the get go. I'm probably not as elitist as you are, no need to get all moody.

Not sure about the Gladiator Chain then, google hasn't rly helped either. Still think it's okay for r8/10 combo to be BIS for the time invested, not like it's broken for the content or anything. Apart from warrior, are there any other classes that would prefer 2 set bonus over full t1/t2? Only hybrid classes I suppose?

Sadly you are propably right.... i see the gesr rewards as a nice side effect to pvping, but not as the goal, but i am with a minority here as you said.
Gear is still a big factor in vanilla PvP. Wouldn't u get annoyed when people that only PvE faceroll u cause PvP gear is useless/way worse than PvE gear? On the other hand most PvP peepz will raid as well, I think it's legit when u can combine gear from both "scenes" for the time u invested. Yes people play for fun too, but actual ranking is a commitment too, u should be rewarded for the time u invest.
 
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Papoz

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Jan 8, 2018
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#67
A real Hpal is not interested in the PVP set anyway. Neither the old nor the new version. But I will heal you boiz, just watch out for me.
 

Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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#68
@maredasan

2p of R10 is PvE BiS for most, if not all classes in MC. That decreases in BWL but it's still BiS for some classes. But as you said, it's not broken for the content and if couple PvP items are BiS for everyone just imagine the PvP activity...and it's not like you get those items for free, still need to play a lot for a month and a half or two to get them. That being said, updated R10 sets bring so much more activity, while MC will be cleared in greens even before anyone reach R10. I mean, MC was cleared on Elysium one week after the launch by a pug and while I haven't tried it myself, the rumor has it that PvE was harder overthere then on Kronos due to armor values and whatnot...so just put it into perspective how meaningless it is if you have those 2p or not, but how much it affects the server as a whole. And anyways, by the time people start getting those 2 pieces, T1 should already be farmed hard so those two wouldn't be out of sync
 
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Vettish

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Apr 24, 2016
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#69
How about if they rebalance the gear by season to closely match the PVE content at the time and make several sets? Much like TBC and beyond. It can just be recolored or left looking the same. At this point, this server will not be blizzlike anyway.
 

varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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#70
Yeah sure its meaningless that people get overpowered gear earlier than blizz released that is BiS for 6months +. May as well release all the catch up items, who even cares about anything since MC and BWL are a snore fest. Lets make sure to release the green dragons earlier, and half the kazzak spawn time so VG can farm more broken weapons.

Or we can follow the great timeline that kronos put out, and not whine and cry for overpowered armor that you will just afk premade farm and then never pvp again. You guys just want access to more overpowered gear and want pve heroes to farm in your premades so you can dodgemade to R14 easier.
 

sycvil

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Sep 7, 2016
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#72
heck your belowed rank 14 first came in patch 1.11.0
New rank 14 weapons have been added! In order to give casters the same diversity of selection that melee currently enjoy we have added new caster items that are available to be purchased by Grand Marshals and High Warlords.
It might be written not quite clear, but 1.11.0 patch notes seem to mean that several new weapons were added to already existing ones (casters are given the diversity that melee currently enjoy).

I think everyone watched Maydie's PvP video. It was released on 2005-11-20 which is ~7 months before 1.11 patch and he already was using rank 14 sword back then. Archived at 2005-11-30 allakhazam page already had this sword. Sword's page on wowwiki says that it was added in 1.4, upgraded in 1.6. Chero's post says that rank 14 weapons were upgraded in 1.6 as well.

This makes me believe that rank 14 weapons first came long before 1.11, even before 1.6 because they were already upgraded in 1.6. My view is: 1.4 - added, 1.6 - upgraded, 1.11 - added several new ones.
 

Vettish

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Apr 24, 2016
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#74
So if you don't engage in something you have nothing useful to add and no right to talk on the subject? Well by that logic, no one in the military should have any say on military spending, activity, training or deployments? If you are not a member of law enforcement you should have no say or opinion of how law enforcement goes about doing their job or how they are equipped or trained? You are not an astronaut so no opinions or voice on the space program for you!
 

varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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#75
I'm perfectly serious, Kronos already has the pvp advantage due to cheap respecs + being able to queue anywhere. No other server offers that, and no server offers the OP level 60 set items available before AQ40. Combine that with this being the only phresh realm of 2018 and Kronos 3 will be in a great spot for both pve and pvp.
 
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