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Information PvP Timeline and Decay Cap changes

eljay

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May 25, 2015
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47
#79
Because then I don't respect your opinion Varth because you have no clue how the pvp environment is.
 

capk

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Jan 15, 2018
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3
#80
10 months until the upgraded r7-r10 pvp gear?
I dont know about that, I was looking forward to play on a fresh server but this is not acceptable for me as a PvP-Mainly player.
I mean cant you upgrade the gear like after MC is farmed by every guild or with the release of BWL? 10 months..?? thats absurd
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
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115
Location
Southern California, USA
#81
I too, disapprove of the late release of upgraded r10 gear.
r14 is another matter entirely and is up in the air for me.

Would like to see upgraded sets earlier in the server lifetime as to give regular pvpers incentive to dive right in, or have a much smaller period of time needed for gathering 'pvp pre-bis' waiting for the upgrade to happen.
 

maredasan

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Joined
Oct 13, 2014
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87
#82
Who will rank for blue PvP gear? No one, that's a problem if you want an active PvP community. But I guess we've been over it already, I just hope they adjust it.
 

Brochette

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Sep 9, 2015
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138
#83
We had that on K1, and all you got was dodgemade powered by guild to grab bis pve gear for their warriors, rogues, mages, warlocks, hunters.
Because, Yes 2p R7-10 upgraded is bis for pve until AQ and R12-R14 is Bis up to Naxx for warriors/hunters

And fact that none can deny, except for 4 weeks (when nost shut down and K2 merged we had like 4/5 running) the average warsong running at EU prime time was 2,5 and for the last 4 months it's more like 1.

At least people who will pvp, will pvp for the pvp and not for the easy pve gear.

And shall i remind you that, unless you are worstworrier ;-) , i doubt your guild will give you full T1 in 1 week after MC (beside the luck to drop the item) and we will have 3 months of pvp in blue/partial epic gear and less face roll.

Stamina will be the major factor in pvp, and luckily 2p non-upgraded set is 15 stam.

And i doubt that this time we will see that many fresh asocial retardin in green gearing up only in Pvp. wink wink....

And yes maybe 10 months is too much (but it's blizzlike), but releasing it before BWL is not good either.
 

Cr0wL0ck

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
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162
#84
Who will rank for blue PvP gear? No one, that's a problem if you want an active PvP community. But I guess we've been over it already, I just hope they adjust it.
then call me mr. nobody ;)
I will be ranking, in particular for the gloves & rep gear & then for the fun :D
 

maredasan

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Oct 13, 2014
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#85
We had that on K1, and all you got was dodgemade powered by guild to grab bis pve gear for their warriors, rogues, mages, warlocks, hunters. Because, Yes 2p R7-10 upgraded is bis for pve until AQ and R12-R14 is Bis up to Naxx for warriors/hunters
As far as I remember, dodgemades were going for epic gear. Also, the PvP community back then was pretty fu**ing sad.

On a side note, warriors don't replace set pieces in Naxx. It's either r12/13 or t2.5 and DEOI > r14 wep. Personally I prefer t2.5 cause of all the def.

We will see how it turns out. Still think it's ridiculous that people think updating either set 4 months after BWL is a good idea.
 

Oidd

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Aug 27, 2014
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156
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Greece
#86
I don't see pve enthusiasts requesting
- t1 t2 blizzlike itemization
- blizzlike talents system
to counter how "overpowered" they are for MC in 1.12 state
because they know its stupid and hard to do right

but

screwing pvp for the sake of "more blizzkike" pvp gear in MC/BWL is fine.

hypocrisy much
 
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Sarei

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Joined
Feb 9, 2016
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396
#87
"We will work under the principle of "item-gating", and not the direct "item-version-by-patch"-route. Meaning on Kronos III, items will be "unlocked" at the patch it was meant to be introduced to the game, but once it is introduced to the game it will appear in the version it was during patch 1.12." - written by Chero in PvE topic.

However, this apparently doesn't involve PvP players. Let's give raiders for the patch really op, from start UPDATED T1 and T2, especially op when you take into consideration that non-raiders wont even have Dire Maul gear at their disposal nor D1 or good dungeon items, which will be added later on.

Are you even aware that, for example updated full T1 hunters and rogues, rape throughout all patches? Do you even understand how fucking OP they gonna be in this surrounding gear-wise and with 1.12 talents and spells? More then ever in the game, in any patch. And casters aren't too much behind either. T1 paladin will be a god. You can't pick and choose what you gonna update and what you wont, disbalance created that way is immense. Either you release everything with old stats, or you release everything with updated stats so both PvE and PvP players can play on more or less equal terms. You can't just 100% cripple one side of your playerbase and give godmode to the other, it doesn't work like that.

Yes, R12, R13 and R14 are too good and they should be updated when you originally intended to do it, before AQ, but if T1 and T2 are updated from the jump, R10 should and must be in that mix as well. Otherwise you're just shitting on anyone who planned to play on your server because of PvP and gear themselves that way and might as well label the realm as "PvE" so we all know what's it about and make our decisions whether we gonna play on the server or not accordingly.
 
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Xavas

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Joined
Dec 27, 2017
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9
#88
Yes, R12, R13 and R14 are too good and they should be updated when you originally intended to do it
Hell, I'd be fine with R12-R14 gear not even being in the game until Nefarian is dead IF people who previously acquired the rank could buy them then (ED style).

I think this is going to be the most raid or die 1x vanilla, possibly ever. It's a shame really.
 

Lenni

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Joined
Nov 1, 2015
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60
#89
I like idea of old pvp set versions, but I really dont like fact that battlegrounds will be available from server start.

First r10-r13 will be players who join more low lvl battlegrounds, so nolifer hardcore rankers will focus on battlegrounds instead of open world pvp. I'd prefer have more pvp in capital cities, mor pvp in stranglethorn valley instead of afker waiting for queu near the wsg portal
 

Sarei

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Joined
Feb 9, 2016
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396
#90
@Lenni

Do you also like the idea that PvP sets are old, but PvE are new aka godmode OP for the patch, especially since there isn't even D1, or DM, or actually good dungeon items like Arena chest, Turban, etc.?
 

Lenni

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Nov 1, 2015
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#91
As I understand pve sets will have old stats too. Like spirit for warlock T1, agility for mages, that questreward spellcost offhand from ungoro for healers etc
 

Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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396
#92
No, according to what Chero wrote T1 and T2 will have new stats, but PvP sets old stats.. Some items like caster 1H sword from MC will be added later on, but PvE sets will be updated from first day.
 

Brochette

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Sep 9, 2015
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#93
Come on.... stop being narrow minded about this.
Updated T1 stats is patch 1.5 (http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.5.0) and came along wsg and AV which we will have from start (for Wsg and AB)

Frankly, i dont care, they could introduce old T1 and follow the timeline, but it would require to introduce the updated set 1.5 month later.
It's waste of effort.

And like i already said, it's not like you can clear multiple time MC in one week, you wont get full T1 in 4 timers, because you know... in pve you are not alone to gear up.

Then you are a bit wrong in your statement comparing the update of set.
On the one hand T1 got updated stats in 1.5.
On the other hand, R7-R10 didn't get an update, this is a complete new set. they introduced it in 1.11 like at the end of the server ~~

http://classicdb.ch/?itemset=543
http://classicdb.ch/?itemset=361

So you will have at start, the correct version of the 1.12 Pursuit set, and earlier than in retail you will have Pursuance.
 

Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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396
#94
Come on Brochette, unlike most of these forum trolls, I know you are actually a good player and a smart guy. How does it make any common sense at all to give a good version of one set and totally shit version for another part of the community. Yeah. new set or not, you get the point. And yeah, you can clear MC once a week and the loot is shared, but it's not like you get full R10 in your bag as soon as you log in. You need to PvP for it 2 months, a lot. Pretty sure we`ll see shitton of full T1 sets after 2 months of MC + raiders will have an option to add that R10 to their T1 if they want, non-raiders wont be able to do the opposite.

Sure, if they don't wanna give a good PvP set, the only logical thing to do is to give a bad PvE set too. However, if they don't wanna do that afterall just come out with a statement that whole focus of the server will be based around PvE so the players know what to expect. If they keep it as it is atm, as Xavas said it will be the ultimate "raid or die" server like non before. Literally no server did one good and one bad set before. They all did it either both good or both bad.
 

varth

New Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
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48
#95
Its hilarious how you guys are crying a river, saying how can this server be so unfair. Yet other servers made the same choice with pvp gear. I WONDER WHY THAT IS? Maybe because its the common sense decision, and you guys are just spoiled with getting OP gear out the window.

Sarei is just straight up lying over there. Equally hilarious 4 ppl liked a post filled with BS. Full t1 all over the place in 8 weeks. Do you even think for 10 seconds before you post ridiculous things? T1 chest Golemagg drops 2 random pieces every week, theres 8 classes. How hard is that math for you to understand? In 8 weeks with perfect drops, you will see TWO chests per class drop. So in that 40man raid, after 2 months of raiding, 16 PEOPLE will have their chest which is 40% of the raid. That same math applies to every slot of t1 outside of the BoEs. But no, Sarei is a "smart" guy and people in full t1 will be everywhere.

You guys are a joke
 
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sushibarf

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Oct 20, 2014
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204
#96
Yet other servers made the same choice with pvp gear. I WONDER WHY THAT IS? Maybe because its the common sense decision, and you guys are just spoiled with getting OP gear out the window.
Maybe because other servers have 7k+ people playing on it and due to that high population there still will be people queueing for BG's constantly.

Kronos never has reached these numbers with their previous projects. So its fair to assume that K3 won't make it either.

So obviously 'hardcore' PvP players want as much incentive to make people queue up for BG's as possible.

It's been said before and I'll repeat it again: The nerfed blue PvP set won't attracted any PvE and casual PvP players.

Combine that with already 'low population' (compared to other servers) and you will have the same problem like previous Kronos servers -> way too long BG queues. Which then results in more people getting frustrated and not queueing anymore.. and so on and so on.

On K1 there were times where Alliance rankers only queued 2-3 days and quit until the honor flush because noone was challenging them with honor on Alliance side anyway.
Which obviously resulted in even less queues. Compare that with other projects where you have to play atleast 14h a day for atleast 6 days a week in order to reach rank 13/14.

If you can't make BG's pop with high population, you have to give people another incentive to queue up.

That's the only reason why people are 'crying' on here. They want as many and fast BG pops as possible.

And don't even try to comeback with 'you only want people to queue so you can farm them with your premades'. A few people will actually want that so they can rank faster, I give you that. But the majority of PvP dedicated players just wants BG's to pop.

Funny how PvP threads always get heavily bombed by PvE players but then again if you see a thread about raids like 'remove world buffs' or what ever, you never see that many PvPers talking smack like 'leave the buffs so I can get easy gear for PvP'.
 

Cr0wL0ck

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Likes
162
#97
If you can't make BG's pop with high population, you have to give people another incentive to queue up.
FUN... i thought that was quite an obvious incentive to play a game... everything does not have to grant high rewards and please don't tell me the start reward for K3 is useless... at least the Gloves will be useless to most classes in either PvP or both PvP & PvE.

Not every pvp player aims for the top, many believe it or not aim at the bottom or mid as they know how requiring it is to reach the top. There are people who wish to reach the top... yes but they still retain the honor of reaching the rank if they so desire or they could choose to wait and join later if they cannot accept playing pvp without everything available no one prevents or forces them.

When you start asking for incentive for participating in content within a game that is over a decade old you are missing the point by a mile... You play this game becourse you enjoyed how it was back in the day, and back then everything was kinda gated and pvp gear got upgraded so it did not fall short when compared to pve if you release all the pvp from day 1 you reverse history and make it so pve catches up to pvp...

pvp on K3 already gets a benefit by a couple months so why complain ? did you truly only play the game for the high ranked gear ? then what after or do you percieve vanilla as a game you aim to rush through ?...

without the max gear on release there is a good chance we won't see a faction side trying to control que times and go full premade and a premade containing a high rank wont be as devastating no more as its gated... skill still matters ofc but premades won't have as large an advantage and they will not have a reason to try and control bg que's from a faction like alliance did and when the gating comes normal players will be closer to their gear and it will be less of a one sided hunt and more of an actual fight ;)
 

Brochette

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Sep 9, 2015
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138
#98
I disagree, i'll pvp at start because pvp in shit gear is the best.

On the other hand, you could say it's the lvl 60 pvp set which made Kronos (K1/K2) pvp as shitty as it is right now, and this from the beginning of the server.

The pve premade/dodgemade destroyed the pug community, anyone lurking on this forum for the past 2 years know about this, there are multiple post about how shitty pvp is on kronos because of dodgemade and only 2 wsg at peak time.

So we tried upgraded set, it didn't work for K1/K2

So now, as a pvp player, i want to try the "blizzlike" way and see if the pvp lvl 58 set will make pvp better and healthier. Because only pvper will tag.

Beside, from my pov, Vanilla pvp and pve the community should be the same, it's the essence of this game. It's the expansion which splitted those 2 community with the resilience pvp set.
 

Sarei

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Joined
Feb 9, 2016
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396
#99
I agree with you about dodgemades and disband-groups as soon as challenging premade pops up on the opposite side 100%, Kronos PvP wasn't good. But that wasn't gear's fault but players' mentality. There was too few people who actually wanted to compete, but a lot of those who just wanted to stomp players with no shot at winning and felt good about themselves because of that. But that's besides the point here. I also agree with you that low level PvP is the best.

However, I'm failing to see how does that justify that R10 sets should have old stats and T1 and T2 should have new stats? I'm all in for low gear gameplay, but that argument for old R10 sets kinda holds no water if T1 and T2 don't have old stats too. For example, as extremely experienced hunter, you know that updated T1 is better then updated R10 set, not to mention level 58 set which is not even comparable. So how does updated R10 ruin "low gear gameplay experience", if MORE OP set will be in game from the first day? Like, hunter with 8/8 T1 and MM talents will be shooting 2k multishots from the jump, how's that for low gear gameplay. And the hunter is just the most obvious example, along with T1 rogues with 110 energy, it's the same for more classes.

That being said, I can fully support old PvP sets AND old PvE sets for "lowest gear gameplay experience" if that's the path staff is going to choose. But to give that experience only to people who intend to gear themselves via PvP, while raiders get godmode with a lot of good stats - good set bonuses - good damage, and end up being literally one or two shotted by those same raiders left and right, fuck no.

That's all. That's my only question. Old R10 set and old PvE sets, I get it, low gear gameplay and I dig that. But old R10 and new PvE sets, how does that make any logical sense whatsoever?
 
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Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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396
@varth

I just saw you wrote about my comments up there.


First of all, no server released old R10 and new T1&T2. Eysium did release both sets with old sets (maybe Nost too idk), but Kronos is about to be the first server who did one old and another new. Does that make common sense as you say?

Secondly, 2 months contain 9 IDs and I bet you we'll see a lot of people in full T1 after 9 IDs. As always, some people will have shitton of luck with loot, some will have none, some will end up with full set and some will end up with 1 piece. Also, guilds rerolling will heavily favor their old members over new "fill-ups" via loot council. Some people wont even bid for armor items at start to get the best shot at winning weapons which will allow others to get set pieces faster. On top of all that, I can't even tell you how many times I've seen, and I'm sure everyone can witness this, that the guild I've been raiding with keep getting the gear for same few classes over and over again, which makes those few classes really stacked really fast, while other few lag behind them really hard. All that taken into consideration, we will be seeing people in full sets after 9 IDs. What you described with your little math and perfectly balanced drops with literally all loot distribution variables disabled doesn't exist in real world.

Thirdly, noone asks for OP gear, just equal treatment. If I'm gonna get shit set in PvP, why should you be able to get good one in PvE and vice versa? If I was asking for updated R13 I would understand that statement, but fighting for fair game is crying nowadays?

And lastly, yes I do think before I write my posts, quite a lot actually, and I'm looking at the bigger picture and overall benefit of the server in the long run instead of tunnelvisioning one thing after another. The question is though, do you?
 
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