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Information PvP Timeline and Decay Cap changes

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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But that wasn't gear's fault but players' mentality.
That was exactly the fault of too high a reward... without it they would not have gone to the extremes, on K1 once the first had the gear they helped others to get it within premade and once a premade aside from tactical advantage gets stronger gear months ahead of the rest then it trns into a one sided control.

That being said, I can fully support old PvP sets AND old PvE sets for "lowest gear gameplay experience" if that's the path staff is going to choose. But to give that experience only to people who intend to gear themselves via PvP, while raiders get godmode with a lot of good stats - good set bonuses - good damage, and end up being literally one or two shotted by those same raiders left and right, fuck no.
Honor system came in patch 1.4.0 & battlegrounds making it possible to rise high in rank came with patch 1.5.0 or at least WSG which would have a bonus week once a month, even when all BG's are out there would normally be an empty week but here ur gifted with a perfect rotation without any downtime weeks.

Molten Core came in patch 1.1.0 and it will be available 1 month after release yet honor system is there on day 1 along and even includes AB alongside WSG, AB came with patch 1.7.0 now tell me you get two pvp factions long before normal, fixed weeks and even the honor system loooong ahead of time yet stil want more ?

PvP starts at patch 1.4.0-1.7.0 while PvE reaches patch 1.1.0 a month later and the first month after that has to do without world buffs...

Last i checked honor stuff in particular the gloves grant a favorable bonus and the set bonus is not all bad, there are classes who preffer not to use T1 due to dungeon or other stuff being superior they only use specific parts and same goes for pvp...

If things where to follow the path 100% you would recieve none of these generous things yet all this is in your favor and you still complain and proclaim that pve starts off with godmode ?... when someone give you a hand then don't try and take their arm...
 

varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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See I agree with you about tier sets should be the weaker side of things, it is weird that pvp gear is the only gear with the worse stats on. The part I disagree with is that tier 1 stacked pvpers will be rampant. The truth is getting tier gear in the beginning will be very competitive for the reason that you have stated. That buffed tier 1 gear is itemized fairly well and is strong for several classes. That means tier gear will be spread out and the only people who will probably have a lot of gear early are main tanks and hunters in guilds that don't bring many.

It's a rough situation I will admit. lvl 60 pvp gear set is super strong, lvl 58 is very weak, and updated tier 1 gear will EVENTUALLY be a problem for the pvp community. TBH I would support level 58 pvp items being buffed to be ~equivalent to tier 1 gear. My main argument is that the level 60 pvp gear is too strong to be available during MC, and arguably during BWL. I'm just not sure how this can be fixed without inviting a ton of mega custom stuff.
 

Sarei

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Feb 9, 2016
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@Cr0wL0ck

I could explain you what's wrong with all that, but honestly I cba, you and few other people here wouldn't understand, so I give up on that part, I'd be wasting my time writing another wall of text. I think I said everything on this topic and it was all in favor of longevity and overall activity of this server. As I said in a comment before, if you want a good and successful server in the long run, you need to take a look at the bigger picture instead of tunnelvisioning one thing after another, but I guess that's too hard. But np, keep bombing us with your little patch notes and if they follow them all, along with different standards for PvP and PvE players, I'm sure K3 is going to be the best server that ever existed.
 

bl4ckc0d3r

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May 22, 2015
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When you start asking for incentive for participating in content within a game that is over a decade old you are missing the point by a mile... You play this game becourse you enjoyed how it was back in the day
This is NOT true for the whole community. I don't play the game to "enjoy" how it was back in the day. The reason I play it still today is exactly because I enjoy the competitive private server version of it where most things are not retarded anymore. Why does Kronos staff insist on making them such again?

There is an obvious disagreement here.
  • Crowlock seems to consider PvPers to be anyone who likes to queue up for BGs once in a while, have some fun, laugh off the fact that you get nothing for it, and log off and do something else until next time you feel nostalgic.
  • However, "the PvPers" that are vocal here and asking to not nerf their aspect of the game are people whose primary activity is doing battlegrounds all day every day and trying to beat each other's teams.
Now why do they have a problem with PvP gear being nerfed to the ground by both the release timeline and the stats? Because
  1. PvE players are laughing at the ridiculous stats of the PvP sets and saying they no longer have a reason to ever step into a battleground. This means less people playing battlegrounds and lowers the chances of BGs being up whenever you feel like playing one.
  2. PvE players who do join battlegrounds casually will have a great advantage with their gear that they have obtained from raids and that PvP gear cannot match anymore (PvE gear isn't nerfed). While those PvPers who don't raid can still win if they play better, that is putting a huge handicap on them, and that is NOT enjoyable for anyone.
  3. The mere reputation of a hardline PvE server that Kronos 3 is now gaining will stop some (probably a lot) of the drifting PvPers from joining, or will make them quit early on when gear advantage becomes too great. Remember how PvP on every server starts dying around AQ? Well now it will die during BWL.
  4. "Dodgemades" will not be removed. While you may get 1 or 2 less, there will still be some warriors and rogues doing their dodgemades to get their main-hand weapon faster. And in the end, no premade will play for long if it is losing, so it will start dodging. The measure of nerfing PvP items is NOT an effective counter-measure to premade dodging.
How does any of this sound fine?
 

Danielle

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Jul 8, 2016
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Not gonna rehash a bunch of what's already said, but here's what I would consider to be ideal for me PvP-wise:

  • Allow PvP gear purchased based on highest lifetime rank to keep interest in ranking throughout the server's lifespan
  • update blue level 60 set once Nef is killed & remove level 58 sets from the game so that ppl can't have double 2-piece bonuses
  • update r12-14 items once C'thun is killed (this is when items such as r14 mageblade would be available)
  • Only allow queue commands to be used from levels 10-59, not for level 60
The reason for this is to keep a relatively close balance between available raid and pvp gear. The place where this matters is premade vs. premade games. Premades and ranker mades can farm pugs and T3 geared players like Varth in preraid blues anyway.
 

Caleb

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Sep 14, 2014
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Discussion shouldnt be about the gear per sé. It should be about how itemization as it is currently planned will limit the amount of BG pops. I count myself as a casual+pvp'er (R10 with some BoE T1 is prob best im gonna get). Hell im gonna play a healing paladin so I prob will be forced to grind dungeons to get pre-bis casting plate (fml). I just want a situation where there are as many bg pops as possible. The more pops the more chance ur gonna get an enjoyable bg. Is the updated r10 set gonna result in more people queing bg's, be it premaders or pugs? Probably yes. Is the updated r10 set gonna ruin raiding experience? Probably not.
 
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Lharts

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old R10 is slightly better then current 5 man gear (T0)
old r14 is slightly better then current raid gear (T1)

idk who ever thought that r10 must be equal or better then the state of the art raid gear
 

Cr0wL0ck

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Aug 23, 2014
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People seem to think there is too little incentive to participate or that pvp would drop due to that but what is being completely neglected is the fact that there are still classes that at the very least require the gloves or the rep gear.

The majority who participate in pvp are not those who aim at the top but rather the middle or bottom settling for what they need at the very least and these things remain throughout the gatings, BWL might see a drop in pvp at least from the highly competitive players as they will be "waiting" for the gating release and once that happens they will return or start.

If it all gets released fast & early then there is less reason for them to continue and especially not return.

PvP is not made up of pure pvp gear and throughout history its a common known fact that PvE raid gear deals the highest damage while PvP gear offers the most survival which blizzard later added resilience to further balance them and keep them apart.

Aside from greed is there any good & proven fact that condones releasing it faster than it already will ? there are a lot of changes in favor of pvp players even tho gear is gated.
 

Lenni

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Nov 1, 2015
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Even 1 piece of updated T1 set can change difficulty of the raid encounters for whole raid. So it is really weird that they are introducing gear with 1.11 stats.

It is related to not just T1, even that SPD dagger from scarlet monastery library with pre-naxx stats will change difficulty of MC progression
 

Oidd

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Aug 27, 2014
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- Why did they introduce the "bad" pvp gear?
-to offer a more challenging MC/BWL raid environment without people having good pvp gear

In reality, that is not going to make a big difference since:
-1.12 talents
-t1/t2/dungeon gear as of 1.12, much easier to get than ranking
i.e. paladin's scholo libram offering +53 FoL healing (...not the same +53 healing as from rest gear... shouldnt be ingame up until naxx i think) makes way more difference overall than mage r10 shoulders
-very few people will have that gear when MC will be out. and it will see very limited use when BwL arrives by very specific classes/specs (2?)

-Why are pvp players "crying"?
-because
a) casual pvp players and pve players will not be interested in pvp, resulting in longer queues against/with the same few people
b) because of (a), pvp players from other projects will not find it attractive to join the server further weakening the pvp community/activity potential of the server
c) level 58 gear provides not just bad but even completely innaproriate gear for some specs (Holy Paladin for example) practically forcing those people to pve


In short: a decision is made (with a good intention) that a) will not make much of a difference as hoped for to a part of the game (raiding difficutly) and at the same time b) have a negative impact on some other part (pvp).
 
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roarnstuff

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Apr 18, 2016
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Even 1 piece of updated T1 set can change difficulty of the raid encounters for whole raid. So it is really weird that they are introducing gear with 1.11 stats.

It is related to not just T1, even that SPD dagger from scarlet monastery library with pre-naxx stats will change difficulty of MC progression
Nah. Guilds cleared MC 3rd and 2nd week of server release on regressed gear servers. BWL cleared in a couple of hours. The only thing that will effect raid difficulty is releasing the raids before all the raiders have enough time to farm full best in slot. Edit: And that's just a maybe.

This decision is just going to make no pvpers roll here. Sad thing is this decision was probably made because someone or multiple someones complained instead of whatever reason they publicly stated.
 
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Brochette

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Sep 9, 2015
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What Handicap? please enlighten me.

Because as far as i remember, upgraded pvp set was realeased in June 2006 and updated pve set in June 2005.
 

Brochette

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I dont get how your point is related to the upgraded pvp gear which came when Naxx released (so 1 year after updated pve gear)
But if i did i could argue that :
At server start you could aimshot easily at 3K with the chrom xbow (in blue gear/partial T1) because of the +50% bonus to crit (instead of 30% nerfed in 1.7) and before weapon speed normalisation patch (and you could cast it in stealth :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((( )

Proof with old template:
http://web.archive.org/web/20150402221456/http://www.wowprovider.com:80/Old.aspx?talent=1124125_3 check mortal shot MM tree.

They applied the nerf to bonus to crit and weapon/speed because with the better updated pve gear and the new agi on weapon enchant it started to get too OP in pvp (they were probably right) and pve (lol nice one).

Unfortunatly i cant find a blue post from the shitstorm it was in summer 2005, but i swear it was what they told us to calm the crowd of pve Hunter.

So unless they revert back every template to 1.1, not realeasing DM/N at start and using old pve gear is a direct nerf to pve/pvp hunter, because T0 is shit and there is literrally no other piece to grab before Dire Maul open.

The pvp set has nothing to do with this.

And as someone already said earlier, where did you get the idea that the pvp set should be on par with the current pve set while it was never the case to begin with.

Because it's not fair?
If i was narrow minded then:
-At that point hunter could ask Kronos dev that all world buff should apply to ranged AP, same for might because it was obviously a mistake from blizzard to not allow it and it was corrected in TBC or in 2.01 prepatch.
-Paladin could ask that AP affect consecration, and many other stuff added in TBC
....

We already have a 5g respec which is a stupid idea imo to wreck the server economy and make Pve way easier just to "supposedly" help the pvp scen, but i am not making a full ragepost of 50 arguments with a pool about this.

Concerning the pve set, yeah they could release it in the 1st version but it would mean to update it like 2 months (to follow the timeline) after the server launch where barely anyone has any pieces, so why bother gathering the data ~~
 

Hagson

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Oct 16, 2014
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You need to PvP for it [rank 10 set] 2 months, a lot.
+ raiders will have an option to add that R10 to their T1 if they want, non-raiders wont be able to do the opposite.
So raiders have the (implied easy) option of adding R10 pieces when they want, but pvpers don't have the option of adding some MC pieces? If your one half of the population (raiders) does PvE and also ranks to 10, while the other (PvPers) does no PvE does it really surprise you that one will have stronger gear than the other?
 

nimeralos

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Aug 26, 2014
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And as someone already said earlier, where did you get the idea that the pvp set should be on par with the current pve set while it was never the case to begin with.

Because it's not fair?
Because it's not how it used to work. It looks like a nerf, even if it's formally Blizzlike.

In 2005, raiding required quite some time commitment and so did PvP, so it was more okay that PvE gear > PvP gear. Now, PvP commitment >> PvE commitment, and people are asking for PvP gear to not be shit.

The decision hurts PvP. It was presumably made so PvE is more challenging - but it would only slow down the hardcore raids by like 5 minutes, and casuals never rank.

PvE was always Kronos priority, and I guess this is the reason why such an imbalanced decision was made. I still hope they can change it.
 
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Nov 7, 2014
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Nothing wrong with starting off with the old PVP sets. The problem is not letting people who have reached the sufficient ranks previously to buy the new/upgraded PVP gear when it comes out.
 
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