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Question about World PVP

Otherguylb

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Dec 18, 2012
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#1
Hello everyone, I am very excited to find out about this server and will definitely play on it after its release.

But I have one question. Many people remember days of world pvp, which sometimes was fun but let's look at it from another angle.

1) At first, when you are low level and questing and some 60 level ganks and kill you - is that fun?

2) Also, we know that classes aren't balanced, every class has its own pros and cons. But what about classes that actually have advantage in world pvp? Mages were usually much stronger in world pvp as they could just polymorph you(or just cast blink) and run away if things went bad. Mages and Rogues generally had advantages and they farmed honor points outside rather than in bg-s.

Judging from these two things, what makes you love world pvp as a low level quester and as non-mage and non-rogue class?
 
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#2
The exitement that something unexpected can always happen. World PvP makes the world feel much more dynamic that's why I'd never play on a PvE Server. And with a low level character you can simply quest in Horde/Alliance territories. So for the first 20 levels those who don't wanna pvp don't have to. Also when the server goes online there won't be any 60s to gank low leveled characters.
 
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Otherguylb

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#3
The exitement that something unexpected can always happen. World PvP makes the world feel much more dynamic that's why I'd never play on a PvE Server. And with a low lever character you can simply quest in Horde/Alliance territories. So for the first 20 levels those who don't wanna pvp don't have to. Also when the server goes online there won't be any 60s to gank low leveled characters.
True but it makes the world a bit unfair. If you are mage or rogue, you know that nobody is going to attack you and you can peacefully farm and quest. As for any other class, you know that if you get attacked, you are done for, unless you bubble and use hearthstone as paladin.

And being outside in the world is one of the main parts of wow experience, not just dungeons and battlegrounds.

Only solution could be to be with someone else all the time.
 

Aieris

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#4
Yes, it's frustrating, when you meet PvPers camping at dungeon entrances / frequented flyght paths and kill people even when they don't get honor for them. But it just will make you hate oposite faction more. And that's what WoW is about - Be hero of your faction and hunt down the oposite whenever you can :smile:
 

Jahreno

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Oct 1, 2014
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#5
It helps motivating the factions for Battlegrounds and PvP in general. It may suck but makes the world more realistic and unpredictable, without excitement there is no fun in playing anyway.

There is no "fair play" in world pvp, mages and rogues may be op but you dont have to fight them fair and square :p they may play dirty but you can do that too :)
 

Lliane

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#6
What you're probably forgetting is the fact that in vanilla there are "dishonorable kills", so killing lowies will actually lower your hard earned rank points (which makes it kind of a bad idea).

What I love about World-PvP is the fact that you can not only 1v1/2v1/2v2 in almost any territory, but you're able to get a 40 man raid and attack something, even other raids!
I remember when there was a 3 hour fight in blackrock 40 Alliance vs 60 Horde when they were ganking our BWL Raid and we decided to fight back, that#s what I call pure epicness of World PvP ;)
 

Rerun

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#8
I'm sorry but thats not as true as you make it seem.

If you master your class, you can always beat the odds.

Sure if you get ganked BY ANY CLASS, and don't have a PvP trinket and/or you're on low HP then you're basically dead. But if you are on (near) full health and have a PvP trinket, I don't think you should then blame it on your class when you die in a WPvP encounter.

So let's say Mages and Rogues are good, cause they can be. Let's talk about other classes vs. these two in a WPvP situation, assuming you know you can get ganked and have a PvP trinket equipped and you have 75% health or above, Ok?


- Paladin: Can always bubble heal, stun, consecrate, cleanse, tank, blessing of freedom, "burst" if ret etc. I don't see any underpoweredness here.

- Druid: Can trinket out of initial stuns, shapeshift out of frost, hot's and dot's, sprint, (warstomp if tauren), tank, kite, roots, burst etc.

- Warlock: Can trinket when needed, death coil, fear, dots, drain life, summon infernal if high enough level, seduce, magic absorption, nuke, felhunter purge and paranoia.

- Warrior: Can equip shield + 1h, can tank melee dmg, can trinket, burst with 2h, shouts, bleeds, 1 intercept, hamstring, I will say against a mage its gonna be very hard but hey thats anti-class everyone expierences that sometimes

- Hunter: Can trinket, could pet stun/snare, can trap, feign death, burst, dots, hunters mark, melee and ranged, kite, mana drain, run with aspects; dodge with aspects; burst with aspects.

- Priest: Can trinket, fear, shield, hots and dots, mind sear, mind blast, heal, vampiric embrace, more hots and dots, has stamina and armor buff, shadowform increases armor etc. aswell

- Shaman: Can trinket, earthbind, frostshock, heal, flameshock, interrupt with earth shock, grounding totem, burst with 2h WF, fire totems, anti-poison totem, stoneskin vs. melee


What more can I say?
As long as a good dps class has the jump on you, you are likely to die unless he sucks and you don't.
 

Ghostly

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Oct 19, 2014
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#9
when you are low level and questing and some 60 level ganks and kill you - is that fun?
It's fun when you gather some other low-level fellows to help you, and strike back.
Several lvl 30-40's can overwhelm a lone level 60, especially if he's not really skilled or geared (and that's usually the kind of people that gank lowbies). And really, few things feel better than killing someone 20 levels above you, showing them that they're not omnipotent even against low-levels.
 

Soyoen

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Sep 28, 2014
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#10
What you're probably forgetting is the fact that in vanilla there are "dishonorable kills", so killing lowies will actually lower your hard earned rank points (which makes it kind of a bad idea).
Dishonorable kills are only gained if you kill specific npcs (usually questgivers, innkeepers, and likewise). As a hunter though, I love watching my pet solo mages, warlocks, priests, and pretty much anything whilst leveling:wub:
 

Lliane

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#11
Dishonorable kills are only gained if you kill specific npcs (usually questgivers, innkeepers, and likewise). As a hunter though, I love watching my pet solo mages, warlocks, priests, and pretty much anything whilst leveling:wub:
Dude, don't tell them that :D
if ppl read this they'll probably believe it... ^^

@topic:
Just play WorldPvP and you'll learn how to play WorldPvP :)
 

Otherguylb

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#12
I'm sorry but thats not as true as you make it seem.

If you master your class, you can always beat the odds.

Sure if you get ganked BY ANY CLASS, and don't have a PvP trinket and/or you're on low HP then you're basically dead. But if you are on (near) full health and have a PvP trinket, I don't think you should then blame it on your class when you die in a WPvP encounter.

So let's say Mages and Rogues are good, cause they can be. Let's talk about other classes vs. these two in a WPvP situation, assuming you know you can get ganked and have a PvP trinket equipped and you have 75% health or above, Ok?


- Paladin: Can always bubble heal, stun, consecrate, cleanse, tank, blessing of freedom, "burst" if ret etc. I don't see any underpoweredness here.

- Druid: Can trinket out of initial stuns, shapeshift out of frost, hot's and dot's, sprint, (warstomp if tauren), tank, kite, roots, burst etc.

- Warlock: Can trinket when needed, death coil, fear, dots, drain life, summon infernal if high enough level, seduce, magic absorption, nuke, felhunter purge and paranoia.

- Warrior: Can equip shield + 1h, can tank melee dmg, can trinket, burst with 2h, shouts, bleeds, 1 intercept, hamstring, I will say against a mage its gonna be very hard but hey thats anti-class everyone expierences that sometimes

- Hunter: Can trinket, could pet stun/snare, can trap, feign death, burst, dots, hunters mark, melee and ranged, kite, mana drain, run with aspects; dodge with aspects; burst with aspects.

- Priest: Can trinket, fear, shield, hots and dots, mind sear, mind blast, heal, vampiric embrace, more hots and dots, has stamina and armor buff, shadowform increases armor etc. aswell

- Shaman: Can trinket, earthbind, frostshock, heal, flameshock, interrupt with earth shock, grounding totem, burst with 2h WF, fire totems, anti-poison totem, stoneskin vs. melee


What more can I say?
As long as a good dps class has the jump on you, you are likely to die unless he sucks and you don't.
This is absolutely wrong though.

Warrior who does not get to charge first loses everything. Warrior's only hope against mage is to charge and then intercept after blink. Why is that most of warrior pvp videos that are from vanilla are from BG-s, while nearly all of mage and rogue videos from vanilla are from World PVP. There is a reason behind that.

And Paladins? Really? There is no way that a paladin can beat a mage with similar gear. In "ZalPVP 3" he only shows 1 footage against a mage. The rest are against rogues, shamans and warriors.

Yes, Hunters and Warlocks generally are only ones who can counter mages. While rogue is strong against anyone who is not warrior or a mage.

But on the grand scale, the fact that mages and rogues can stop the fight and run at any moment is what makes them OP at the moment in world pvp.
 

unrealized

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#13
Funny you mention Mages and Rogues as OP, although I have no recollection of that, I do remember all the winning and crying on the forums from Alliance players complaining about the stupidly overpowerness of Shamans, Mages and Rogues were nothing in comparison.

There was even an old joke back then, it wen't something like:


An Alliance guild is idling outside a raid entrance, when they suddenly see a Shaman pop out from behind a small hill, taunting them and making rude gestures. 4 guild members decide to take care of business and go after the shaman, the shaman runs back behind the hill and the Alliance players follow, disappearing from sight.

A minute later the shaman appears again, continuing his taunting. Slightly irritated, more guildies go in for the kill, 8 of them go after the shaman over the hill to kill him.

...Again, a minute later the shaman comes back and taunts. Angered and frustrated all the remaining members of the raid make their way over the hill after the shaman, some 20 Alliance players want revenge for their friends. Once again they all disappear behind the hill, leaving only the raid leader behind, infuriated by the situation.

Several minutes later, a lone warrior comes back half beaten to death to the raid leader and says:
- "Sir, it was a trap... There were 2 of them!"
 

Otherguylb

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#15
Funny you mention Mages and Rogues as OP, although I have no recollection of that, I do remember all the winning and crying on the forums from Alliance players complaining about the stupidly overpowerness of Shamans, Mages and Rogues were nothing in comparison.

There was even an old joke back then, it wen't something like:


An Alliance guild is idling outside a raid entrance, when they suddenly see a Shaman pop out from behind a small hill, taunting them and making rude gestures. 4 guild members decide to take care of business and go after the shaman, the shaman runs back behind the hill and the Alliance players follow, disappearing from sight.

A minute later the shaman appears again, continuing his taunting. Slightly irritated, more guildies go in for the kill, 8 of them go after the shaman over the hill to kill him.

...Again, a minute later the shaman comes back and taunts. Angered and frustrated all the remaining members of the raid make their way over the hill after the shaman, some 20 Alliance players want revenge for their friends. Once again they all disappear behind the hill, leaving only the raid leader behind, infuriated by the situation.

Several minutes later, a lone warrior comes back half beaten to death to the raid leader and says:
- "Sir, it was a trap... There were 2 of them!"
We are talking about world pvp here. In battleground, if I am healer, I prefer healing a dps warrior than healing a mage.

Second, in group fights, mages and rogues are not OP at all. It is balanced like that. But if you are questing alone, or doing something solo, then mage and rogue will always have advantage against you.

And plus, they can just run away if something goes wrong. Good luck with other classes.

P.S. I do agree that Shamans were good against mages because of totems, interrupts and WF. But that does not mean mages can't just escape whenever they want.
 

Popse

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Aug 18, 2014
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#16
i could say low level pvp in vanilla is most balanced , how can you say rogue are OP , i was drinking tea while killing rogues with my hunter , so easy , specially if you have some poison cure things :D also i was leveling paladin on emerald dream had engineering with gnomish deathray i was rank 3 at lvl 45 without even a single battleground , fucking owned everyone .. so just keep your gear on date and any class can own in low lvl pvp ( btw had no problems against mages with both classes , ( specially paladin burst + blessing of freedom )
 
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#17
About shaman, while they were probably op for a fairly long time, I feel like paladins are way stronger in 1.12 wsg due to freedom+cc immunity + dispel
 
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Twigsy

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#18
I have no idea how to respond to this thread other than I simply love PvP.

I don't even give a shit what I play, and what level I am at, or where I am.

I just love always being a target/able to target others regardless of the above.
 

Lharts

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Nov 29, 2012
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#20
Vanilla wow is balanced! Just not arround 1v1.
Which would be retarded in an mmo anyways.

World PvP -> great (10%)
World ganking/griefing -> lame and retarded (90%)
 

jorim

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#21
The only OP thing about rogues is stealth and vanish. They are chickens, they only pick fights they are sure they will win.
 

Aieris

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#22
Guys, this have turned in to argue which class is OP and which is not. Let's say, that during leveling, rogues and mages have advantage, cuz of stealth/vanish, frost nova/blink. Hunters are also in advantage, because of pet.
But that's vanilla. Each class have pros and cons. If you fear a lone mages / rogues ganking you, then level up in group.
Not to mention, that at the begining, group leveling will be the only option.
 

Aieris

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#24
Common, they are ROGUES! SINISTER strike, AMBUSH, BACK stab... These things says, that they are dirty and that they go only into fight they can win. If you want to master rogue, you must learn, how to join the fight in way you want it, not others.

But it's off topic. Lharts is right. Classes are balanced, but not in the way like they were on retail in Cata/MoP.
 

Rerun

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#25
This is absolutely wrong though.

Warrior who does not get to charge first loses everything. Warrior's only hope against mage is to charge and then intercept after blink. Why is that most of warrior pvp videos that are from vanilla are from BG-s, while nearly all of mage and rogue videos from vanilla are from World PVP. There is a reason behind that.

And Paladins? Really? There is no way that a paladin can beat a mage with similar gear. In "ZalPVP 3" he only shows 1 footage against a mage. The rest are against rogues, shamans and warriors.

Yes, Hunters and Warlocks generally are only ones who can counter mages. While rogue is strong against anyone who is not warrior or a mage.

But on the grand scale, the fact that mages and rogues can stop the fight and run at any moment is what makes them OP at the moment in world pvp.

I get the feeling you have never seriously pvped with all the classes before.

I'm not gonna get into all the reasons why you're wrong, did you even read what I said at the warrior part of my post? Lets just agree to disagree.

Like I said, as long as a good player has the jump on you, you better be prepared to make no mistakes, and don't blame the class you're playing for losing the fight; especially if you're of equal gear and level.
 
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