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Ragnaros and Onyxia down by <Synced>

Figaro

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#26
You made it sound like Synced members were online 24/7, don't worry, that was not the case. Also, devoting many hours into gaming is everyone's choice, this is just your opinion. Many progamers, speedrunners and even casual players would disagree with you.
lol., they were.
 

Miv

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#29
I don't think I saw it mentioned in here yet, most people are attributing it to bosses being too easy/trying too hard/good teamwork... Now I don't argue against anyone who has killed the bosses having good team work or dedication, but the main thing to realize is that we're in one of the final patches of vanilla wow, and classes, items, 5man loot tables, mechanics have changed extensively over the time from 1.0 to 1.12.1. This patch is balanced for Naxx, not for MC/Ony, so it's expected to be fairly simple for an organized group.
 
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#30
I don't think I saw it mentioned in here yet, most people are attributing it to bosses being too easy/trying too hard/good teamwork... Now I don't argue against anyone who has killed the bosses having good team work or dedication, but the main thing to realize is that we're in one of the final patches of vanilla wow, and classes, items, 5man loot tables, mechanics have changed extensively over the time from 1.0 to 1.12.1. This patch is balanced for Naxx, not for MC/Ony, so it's expected to be fairly simple for an organized group.
^ This. Its not any more to it than that really. MC should be seen as a gearing stepping stone to real raiding, which starts with BWL.
 

Zipzo

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#31
Can we get some clarification on whether the BWL release timer has started ticking as a result, or are we waiting for a guild from both factions to clear it?
 

HBK

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#32
Here's my little report about our Molten Core and Onyxia progression:

Molten Core is absolutely well scripted, with the exception of a few small bugs that Chero is already aware of and i guess they'll get fixed very soon.

Molten Core being well scripted though, doesn't make it hard for an experienced group of players (and really, who isn't experienced when it comes to Molten Core ...) so yeah, Molten Core was quite a walk in the park considering the factors that a few people already brought up in this thread (the post 1.10 gear from 5-man dungeons, the 1.12 talent trees, the players' experience etc).

Chero and the Kronos Team, in order to make it a real challange even for the most experienced people, would have had to customize the Boss encounters so heavily that you wouldn't be able to call them blizzlike anymore after such changes.
Some people had asked them to do that for Molten Core before the server was launched, i think you can still find these threads on the forums here, but Chero decided to keep it the way they are and so it is no suprise that Molten Core gets cleared as soon as the first Guild/Group reaches Majordomo and Ragnaros.

Is this a bad thing for the server though? I don't really think so, because it is difficult to even make Molten Core a challenge. There is people complaining that Molten Core is too easy, that's because Molten Core is kept blizzlike in terms of damage and hp values.
If Chero had modified these values to counter our status of Gear and Talents, other people would complain that the bosses are not blizzlike, you know .... so no matter how you do it, people will tell it's wrong.

Even over at our competition (other server not to be named) Molten Core got cleared after 2-3 weeks, just like here on Kronos. And that, even though they tried pretty hard to counter that, by changing all items to their pre 1.4 values and telling their community that they would tune all encounters to their pre-nerf state (which is BullSHit btw).

So, i can only say that Molten Core is scripted very well, almost flawless. (With the excpetion of Ragnaros killing half the raid before the encounter even started... the GMs saw that incident and it denied us the first try kill)

BUT, something you all can excitedly be looking forward to is Onyxia!
Onyxia is very well scripted already, on our first kill there was just a small visual bug in P2 where Onyxia was not always facing the right direction, which made it harder to see where the possible deep breath would be hitting down, but Chero was telling me during our progression that he was already aware of it and that the fix for that was done already, but just not applied to the live server yet.
When she comes back down after P2 she is a bitch to get back under control and that's what i loved about her!
It was a real pleasure to progress on her and she was actually able to wipe us a couple of times!
(We gotta keep in mind though that we've fought her with less than 30 ppl, we don't know how it will look like with a full 40 man raid)

so far so good, all that's left to say is, don't judge the difficulty of Molten Core by the progression of the Guild that gets the Server First Kill. In our case we've prepared more for it than normal guilds would do, we had many players that leveld like crazy to get there so quick and the people we had in the raid were executing very well.
There will surely be guilds that will wipe here and there if they don't watch out carefully.

As for Molten Core i can absolutely accept that it wasn't all too much of a challenge, but on the other hand, i hope that Chero will learn a little from it and tune up the future raid content a little bit. At least for AQ and Naxxramas. Cause nobody would want to see a guild that clears those raids a week or two after they come out.

and as far as BWL is conerned, us from <Synced> will not demand from Chero to open BWL anytime soon!
We didn't clear MC and Onyxia so fast because we want BWL out as fast as possible.

I think the wording they are using in the conent progression is just unsuitable. It gave some of you the impression that they would open BWL like a couple of weeks after the first kill of Ragnaros.
I don't think that was the intention behind it, but yeah, the wording was not the best.

I don't expect BWL to come out anytime earlier than 2-3 Months and i think that would be a time they should aim for. I think by that time, the community should be ready for it.

Thanks for hearing me out! Hope it gave you the small impression you were looking for.
 
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Rhauvin

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#34
:rolleyes2: why should they be a challenge? Vanilla raiding, especially the 1st 2 tiers arent challenging at all. If you want challenging WoW content go roll on retail and hit some HC/Mythic raids.
 
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#35
Well, if retail is supposed to be the hard stuff now which demands strategy, then yes, i'll go back there :) I remember Vanilla Content - especially Ragnaros - to be especially demanding, along with a lot of preparation. I'm sorry to have been mistaken on researching that here then :)
 
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#36
HBK post above says it all. Get over it. MC is well scripted and works, yet it is still MC with a 1.12.1 client. Raiding starts at BWL! :yes:
 

nimeralos

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#37
Now... Who'll be the server first to release a video about this epic event?

I mean, thanks for the text HBK, but something animated would be nice to see too :)
 

HBK

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#38
i'm gonna ask if somebody recorded our latest Ragnaros kill, if someone did, you might see a video soon.
 

Zipzo

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#39
Recently me and the manly men at a <Irae/Libertatis> cleared 8/10 in MC our first night in and we felt that it was excellently scripted. All of our wipes were due to silliness and feet-wetting on our parts on a few pulls, and there was never once we felt like we were at the mercy of a scripting error.

Next week we'll take out Domo and Rag and corroborate how they feel :).

Speaking with friends in <CORAL>, I believe I was told they had a less than optimal experience, with bugs they felt they needed to report, and even situations that prevented them from clearing as far (maybe partly due to raid composition and such). Maybe someone from there can weigh in.

For the most part I'm excited to clear MC in the coming week.
 

HBK

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#40
here's a little kill video of our Ragnaros kill of last week. there was only 1 person who recorded it, it's not the best PoV and some crazy graphic options, but it'll have to do :D

The important thing to mention is that this kill was as legit as it gets in my view. there was no "melee dmg bug" aka Ragnaros not hitting the tank, so you can see our tank drop to near death a couple of times and everything else worked as well. What you don't see is the submerge phase because with 40 ppl it's ofc easy to kill Rag before he submerges.

[video=youtube;ttoAXgFNA-4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttoAXgFNA-4[/video]
 

Zipzo

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#41
here's a little kill video of our Ragnaros kill of last week. there was only 1 person who recorded it, it's not the best PoV and some crazy graphic options, but it'll have to do :D

The important thing to mention is that this kill was as legit as it gets in my view. there was no "melee dmg bug" aka Ragnaros not hitting the tank, so you can see our tank drop to near death a couple of times and everything else worked as well. What you don't see is the submerge phase because with 40 ppl it's ofc easy to kill Rag before he submerges.

[video=youtube;ttoAXgFNA-4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttoAXgFNA-4[/video]
Are you saying that you were able to avoid sons of flame?

Well now I'm a bit curious because even with 40 people I'm pretty sure you needed epic-level over-geared (MC level gear across the raid) DPS to hit that point, not being comprised of mostly pre-raid blues and questing greens/blues.
 

Thelarian

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Martin
#42
Are you saying that you were able to avoid sons of flame?

Well now I'm a bit curious because even with 40 people I'm pretty sure you needed epic-level over-geared (MC level gear across the raid) DPS to hit that point, not being comprised of mostly pre-raid blues and questing greens/blues.
That's the first thing that came to my mind, that there were no adds spawning, but now that I've looked up info it is on a 3min CD, so the kill is legit from this point of view ;)

IDK how they nuked him in low equip, but I gues it's the patch difference making this possible.
 

Revo

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#43
That's the first thing that came to my mind, that there were no adds spawning, but now that I've looked up info it is on a 3min CD, so the kill is legit from this point of view ;)

IDK how they nuked him in low equip, but I gues it's the patch difference making this possible.
unfortunatelly, yes..
we got 1.12.1 skills, gear and enchants vs an encounter that was released in like patch 1.1.0 and got nerfed every new patch. even tho rag is somewhat bugged, he appears to be much easier than on vanilla retail for the most of people due to this. cause most ppl raided mc before 1.12.1 arrived.

i wouldve liked to see MC more difficult tbh and not as weak as it got on 1.12.1 with.
the same applies to onyxia.
 
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indaco

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#44
People know how gear now , in 2006 people was using set gear / crit gear over hit and spelldmg , so with a proper preraid bis you still output a lot more dmg
 

Revo

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#45
People know how gear now , in 2006 people was using set gear / crit gear over hit and spelldmg , so with a proper preraid bis you still output a lot more dmg
dude..... pls no.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Molten_Core_(original)
" It was one of two forty (40) player raid dungeons available upon release of World of Warcraft," (Release date(s) AUS / NA November 23, 2004)

http://www.wowwiki.com/Barbarous_Blade
"Patch 1.3.0 (07-Mar-2005): Added"

there are HUNDREDS of such examples
 
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indaco

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#46
True dat , but during whole vanilla i cleary rember lock from my guild using t2 over bloodvine , mage stacking crit gear and so on
 

HBK

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#47
unfortunatelly, yes..
we got 1.12.1 skills, gear and enchants vs an encounter that was released in like patch 1.1.0 and got nerfed every new patch. even tho rag is somewhat bugged, he appears to be much easier than on vanilla retail for the most of people due to this. cause most ppl raided mc before 1.12.1 arrived.

i wouldve liked to see MC more difficult tbh and not as weak as it got on 1.12.1 with.
the same applies to onyxia.
yeah, especially the blue dungeon gear that got introduced in patch 1.10(i think) plays a big part in it. Most of our members are pre-raid bis geared and that gear is better than full T1 for example, so yes, we are somewhat overgeared for this encounter. If you've played on other p-servers in the past, it shouldn't suprise you that Ragnaros gets killed before the son phase with a 40 man raid.
But i've said it in my long post some pages back, Molten Core almost cannot be turned into a challenge if the content is not heavily modified, and if it was, people would heavily complain about that aswell :)

And about Onyxia, she is not AS EASY as what you see in Molten Core. People are already complaining in the bugtracker, because other guilds had problems killing her.

Anyway, the Tier 1 content being too easy overall when the server runs on patch 1.12 is absolutely no suprise, and for me it is acceptable. The learning curve is more important. For future content, Chero now knows what you guys think about the content and maybe he can do the necessary to make future content harder to beat.
 

Revo

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#48
they could just have given the bosses HP/DMG/abilities that are closer to what theyve been before they got nerfed the 10th time

or, what some might find misplaced, just buff the hp/dmg/etc, regardless how much they actually got nerfed, to compensate the better gear/skilltrees/etc we profit from and make it more challenging (= blizzlike, for everyone who didnt start playing wow with 1.12.1)

tho i guess you could just undo some nerfs to reach that already.
 
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