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    TwinStar team

[BWL] Blackwing Lair Scripting: Final Verdict?

Liqorice said:
Synced did it, called in 3 extra palas :)

Finally a hard boss for everyone, people need the right classes thats all :)
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Yeah they did it and they called in 3 paladins before anyone else knew the frequency was that high and the amount of debuffs was higher as well. But thats not the case here, for horde it's almost impossible if not impossible since they don't have paladins. Which is not right if you ask me. Second, they didn't have Time Lapse which brought another bug to the table (the one I just reported) and it shakes up the fight a little bit more because there's another stun you gotta keep in mind.

Anyhow they prepared well, that's for sure. But don't say other that people did it just to cover up some bugs that definitely need fixing.. For horde this ain't fun at all. That others did it isn't the point here, it's a Blizzlike server and things should be Blizzlike. (Kronos is finely scripted in many ways, yet this boss needs some sharpening which is common for releases) It's sad though that horde have a disadvantage this big.

So please don't say things like "xxx did it" as if it makes up for the flaws that are a much bigger issue for the Horde.
 
Things that haven't been reported yet:

1. The first pack of goblins that you meet in Vaelastrasz room (those running away) instantly despawned after killing them. No chance of getting Elementium Ore.

2. We pulled the first pack of trash-dragons (after killing Vaelastrasz) into Vaelastrasz room. While doing that, the pack somehow added Firemaw. Which of course killed the whole raid because noone was prepared / wearing Onyxia cloak at that time. Don't know how this happend since there still is the entire supression room ahead.
This happend twice in a row.

3. These dragon-packs also reseted several times in a row after pulling them (as mare already stated). Some times you could just pull 2 dragons. Some kind of linking problem maybe.
 
Liqorice said:
Finally a hard boss for everyone, people need the right classes thats all :)
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You confuse setup dependent with hard. A common mistake.

A boss that relies heavily on setup is not practical on a server this small. Guild simply don't have the roster for this. A few may do, but that can't be an argument.
 
Liqorice said:
Synced did it, called in 3 extra palas :)
Finally a hard boss for everyone, people need the right classes thats all :)
.
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This is a great comment seeing as Vanilla has certain restrictions in this department.

I'm not saying Synced wouldn't have gotten server first, they clearly raced ahead, but we were three guilds within ~45 minutes when we hit Ebonroc. Now, out of these three guilds one handily had three extra alts ported in for the first attempts with an inherent design making the fight a lot easier, while the other two (and the subsequent guilds) were pretty much fucked by the absolute brickwall of debuffs.

At any rate, Synced probably oneshot Nefarian as well, but it kinda defeats the purpose when the only ones chasing are also gated in such a way. So yeah, it's funny to read how some members from that lair laugh at the "42-minute minute MC-setup" when they were clearly working with more information than the rest of us.
 
Were they? The test streams were widely publicized and showed the Chromaggus fight and the rate of debuff application. The way you're wording it you're making it sound like Synced had super secret contacts behind the scenes with GMs warning them ahead of time.

edit: At any rate, I think Chromaggus is clearly over-tuned compared to retail, especially for horde with no access to paladins.
 
<Synced> were around on previous Kronos incarnation(s) as well as during beta, if I'm not wrong. Probably GMs themselves have their normal toons in it they enjoy the game with, that would make it just natural that they're the most prepared and experienced people to face new/fresh content :wink:
 
skyrunner620 said:
Were they? The test streams were widely publicized and showed the Chromaggus fight and the rate of debuff application. The way you're wording it you're making it sound like Synced had super secret contacts behind the scenes with GMs warning them ahead of time.

edit: At any rate, I think Chromaggus is clearly over-tuned compared to retail, especially for horde with no access to paladins.
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From the PTR thread:

- Theory : Chromaggus's debuff application frequency seems a weebit high.

****
It seemed for me that on Chromaggus he was putting Magics / Curses / Diseases too fast, I'm pretty sure all of us were spamming Decursive and we didn't even have time to clear everybody that a new batch came.

****
chromag-either not enough dispellers or to many debuffs

From HBK:

about Chromaggus debuffs: As one of the persons who only ever played BWL in 2 different places, which is on Retail in 2005/2006 and on Kronos (including Kronos2), i find the frequency and the number of debuffs that are getting applied to be very close to retail.

the guys that made BWL experience on Feenix or on other p-servers, probably make reference to the Chromaggus there and then it doesn't surprise me that some ppl say there are too many debuffs on kronos.

when raids use a very minimalistic healing setup, it is no surprise that you get trouble dispelling. back on retail it was common to have 7-8 priests in the raid and on top of it of course also a handful of druids and paladins/shamans. With a more retail-like healing setup, the dispelling on kronos won't be that much of a problem anymore.

****

So, debuff application frequency should be 50% slower and rate 50% lower from what I have gathered. Excy was the only one being spot on about the Chromaggus fight, but this was obviously disregarded.

However, I think most participants had the mindset that "this will work better in a guild run", if you catch my drift.
 
Guys, keep this thread free of any witch hunt other nonsense and stick to fact.
Rolexsweep reported Chromaggus on Twinhead. Add your 2 cents there if you feel something is off.
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=7076

Synced does have closes contact to the GM staff, but so does Arcanum. As Aurigon already figured out, both guilds were arround for a long time and therefore have a closer connection to the staff. Surely this COULD help in terms of perparation, yet I know of no instance where Synced or anyone else tried to get an advantage from this.
 
Perhaps one should not assume stuff and just prepare for the worst case scenario (ie it not being changed/fixed for the first ID).

If it's overtuned or not i wouldn't know i only did the fight once or twice on retail 10 years ago but i think everyone would agree that the horde does indeed draw the short straw on this particular fight.
 
Lharts said:
Synced does have closes contact to the GM staff, but so does Arcanum. As Aurigon already figured out, both guilds were arround for a long time and therefore have a closer connection to the staff. Surely this COULD help in terms of perparation, yet I know of no instance where Synced or anyone else tried to get an advantage from this.
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i can assure you that we neither have any GMs or server staff members in our guild (i surely would have noticed) and also, we have had close to 0 contact to Chero or any staff member/gm since the re-opening of this server.
So saying we are close with the GMs is utter bullshit. Ask Chero or anybody how often Synced members show up in IRC to get info about anything. We're probably one of the guilds that are appearing there the least.

All info needed for Chromaggus was available for everybody. There was a test raid for both factions and on these test raids you all saw the frequency of Cromaggus' debuffs. So why do some people here blame us for knowing more than anybody else (not to mention the ridiculous accusation about GM contact)?

I also could mention the fact that Vanguard trained for BWL on Emerald Dream the day before the Kronos BWL release. Did we give them any beef for that? No we didn't, even though i thought that it's super cheap.

I just made sure that my guild is prepared to the fullest going into BWL and we prepared for the worst (especially for the Chromaggus debuffs).
I admit, i made a statement that didn't turn out to be true by saying that the debuff frequency seems to be close to blizzlike, but in the same statement, i also said that guilds just have to bring loads of dispellers/healers to counter that. and that's what we did on live, why didn't you prepare for that? you had the very same info.

And the fact that we cleared BWL a couple of times on the last iteration of Kronos !(1.5 fucking years ago)! didn't help as much anymore, because BWL appeared to be a little different on the PTR 2 weeks ago or whenever it was.

So yeah, it's almost natural that we get the beef again, as we were the ones getting the server first kills. It has never been any different in WoW. it's sad.

and i hate it to be so defensive here again, it makes me look like a dickhead even though i'm just looking for sportsmanship and respect. i have no beef for anyone, but i felt like i have to defend my guild here.
 
Calm your tits, I was defending you in my post.
If you are this fucking bad at reading then leave it.
 
lharts, it wasn't against you specifically, it was an answer to the things multiple people said in this thread and the general picture that some people seem to have.
 
bl4ckc0d3r said:
And everyone assumed that it will be fixed since it was discovered in that PTR raid.
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Well, apparently it was fixed between Wednesday and Thursday because from watching the stream of someone from your guild yesterday, it was pretty clear that was not the same Chrom from Wednesday. Personally I think it BS to ninjafix something like this in the middle of an ID and they should have waited until we were between 2 ID's to fix it.
 
I disagree with your claims that it got fixed. I think our streamer simply got extremely lucky because on that stream you could see people getting stunned all the time (the blue sparkles animation). We just had 80% of our healers spamming decursive and not healing at all in the try where we killed him, that's all.

And yeah, RIP horde.
 
Since there is no VOD it's hard to give definitive proof. It just seemed way, way too lucky that that mage would dodge a ~75% chance to get a debuff every 10 sec for several minutes. He got something like 5 debuffs for the whole 8min fight with ~75% chance every 10 sec.

But again, since there is no VOD I guess we won't know for sure until we try Chrom again.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS5Td4HTBkM

Now will the rumours about ninjafixing stop? You can clearly see nearly the entire raid being affected by debuffs every ten seconds starting 00:05

This is also a nice showcase of the bugged Time Lapse, and the strain that it causes.

Thanks to some insane stroke of luck I managed without bronze curse for 90 seconds, though this is not representative of our other attempts. If you still dont believe us I could probably upload those too.
 
HBK said:
I also could mention the fact that Vanguard trained for BWL on Emerald Dream the day before the Kronos BWL release. Did we give them any beef for that? No we didn't, even though i thought that it's super cheap.
Click to expand...

Well, we did train BWL.. With 25 people TOPS. So yeah go figure. On the rest, I don't care. If it's false or right, nobody gives a shit or should give a shit. But stating that the fight was "fine" or "blizzlike" is wrong. It's broken in some ways like everybody mentioned. Though it's weird you guys didn't notice anything different.. While everybody else did? Even though you pulled in 3 paladins? Anyhow, surely the raid was open for anyone to see.. But everybody expects things to be fixed since Kronos is so fine.. And to be honest not much changed? Only firemaw timers?

Now I'm not gonna call names 'cause honestly this conversation has gone on too long. And it would make me a bad loser.

Synced got first kills, gz.

Now on point: Scripting was "okay" but as mentioned earlier.. Didn't see MUCH difference from the test raid which is kinda sad and definitely unexpected for Kronos standards. It's doable sure, if you bring in the right amount of paladins (rip horde) .. So yeah, I guess there's some work to be done and thats it. :)
 
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Hagson said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS5Td4HTBkM

Now will the rumours about ninjafixing stop? You can clearly see nearly the entire raid being affected by debuffs every ten seconds starting 00:05

This is also a nice showcase of the bugged Time Lapse, and the strain that it causes.

Thanks to some insane stroke of luck I managed without bronze curse for 90 seconds, though this is not representative of our other attempts. If you still dont believe us I could probably upload those too.
Click to expand...


Thank you, and grats on the kill!

I guess that mage streaming yesterday should go enter the lottery or something cus he is apparently the most odds defying person ever.
 
HBK said:
and i hate it to be so defensive here again, it makes me look like a dickhead even though i'm just looking for sportsmanship and respect. i have no beef for anyone, but i felt like i have to defend my guild here.
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I don't wanna contribute to any more whining about this, as it wasn't really my intention, I just want to clarify that I misinterpreted some of the information coming from the PTR crew compared to what was executed on live.

In hindsight it feels a bit stupid that horde probably had lost any sort of race before even setting foot in the instance, but that's nothing you can do anything with, and you probably would have ported in those pallies regardless of what you saw on the PTR.

Here's to peace.
 
Aurigon said:
<Synced> were around on previous Kronos incarnation(s) as well as during beta, if I'm not wrong. Probably GMs themselves have their normal toons in it they enjoy the game with, that would make it just natural that they're the most prepared and experienced people to face new/fresh content :wink:
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I laugh at this. Most GM's are horde

- - - Updated - - -

hizOdge said:
Well, apparently it was fixed between Wednesday and Thursday because from watching the stream of someone from your guild yesterday, it was pretty clear that was not the same Chrom from Wednesday. Personally I think it BS to ninjafix something like this in the middle of an ID and they should have waited until we were between 2 ID's to fix it.
Click to expand...

To end all rumors about a hotfix. There were no server updates since BWL was released. Chero has taken a personal day due to the time spent preparing for BWL the few days leading up to its release.

- - - Updated - - -

Vahn said:
Well, we did train BWL.. With 25 people TOPS. So yeah go figure. On the rest, I don't care. If it's false or right, nobody gives a shit or should give a shit. But stating that the fight was "fine" or "blizzlike" is wrong. It's broken in some ways like everybody mentioned. Though it's weird you guys didn't notice anything different.. While everybody else did? Even though you pulled in 3 paladins? Anyhow, surely the raid was open for anyone to see.. But everybody expects things to be fixed since Kronos is so fine.. And to be honest not much changed? Only firemaw timers?

Now I'm not gonna call names 'cause honestly this conversation has gone on too long. And it would make me a bad loser.

Synced got first kills, gz.

Now on point: Scripting was "okay" but as mentioned earlier.. Didn't see MUCH difference from the test raid which is kinda sad and definitely unexpected for Kronos standards. It's doable sure, if you bring in the right amount of paladins (rip horde) .. So yeah, I guess there's some work to be done and thats it. :)
Click to expand...

Roughly 10-12 issues in bwl were fixed.
 
hizOdge said:
Thank you, and grats on the kill!

I guess that mage streaming yesterday should go enter the lottery or something cus he is apparently the most odds defying person ever.
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I had to go 20 UBRSs to get my reed, how am I lucky :D Too bad I didnt record the stream, I would like to see it for myself as I mentioned I didnt pay attention if I got any debuffs except bronze.
 
This thread has gotten too far, the purpose is so players give a feedback on how BWL currently is scripted and it's now on the stage of pointing fingers out that one guild managed to kill it because they used a different setup - people started assuming that they had GM insight and so on -, another guild killed it the day after and people thought there was an hotfix on the debuff issue.

He's dead, Synced got server first and congratulations that's all you can say. Now for Horde it's a bit difficult, it's a challenge, just fix this bug and keep the thread alive. Report more things that you find and stop whining / hating on each other because that only promotes fights between guilds and ruins the server community for everyone.
 
Can we please get some love for the reported issues regarding last stage of BWL scripting? Please, PLEASE, do not just leave it as it is just because it can be cleared with the current state of bugs.

I've made a list of bugs here so please everyone go and upvote them on the issue tracker:


Please upvote and help us bring BWL to the quality-of-scripting level that suits Kronos.
 
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