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    TwinStar team

Should Character Auctions be restricted to other Twinstar projects?

Should Character Auction be disallowed on Kronos?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 36.2%
  • No

    Votes: 30 63.8%

  • Total voters
    47

Ethereal

Authorized
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Location
The Twisting Nether
Even if done whilst in good intentions, the Character Auction seems to be becoming a make or break deal for some individuals waiting out for the server to release, many now spreading that Kronos is pay to win because of this feature even if the opposite is true.

Do you believe this feature should be banned from Kronos, as it is essentially redundant(people would seldom use it for the work they put in) and giving off a mixed image, or do you believe it should be sustained to ward off potential outside transactions in the future?
 
IMO, everyone who twist the truth, to let this shine in a bad light, should go to hell and dwell there, kkthxbye
 
Think about it from a logical standpoint.
You could either have a project that does not generate any revenue and thus has bad infrastructure which impairs your gameplay immensely. Or you give people a reason to donate.
Now what do you give them? You can't give them items cause it would break the game. Actually you can't give them anything that is artificially created. Like gold, level or w/e.
Solution, give them the opportunity to use stuff that does not change any aspect of the game. Tabards, non combat pets, different mounts and yes, also the auction.
The characters don't just magically appear, they just change the owner. Thats it.

Think of it as a lottery. If you really are lucky enought (and I doubt this is happening anytime soon, or ever) to find a high character in there, well grats to you.
As someone mentioned before. If you want to make money with high level chars they will just be vendored over the black market. Google ED gold buy and you know what I mean.

NO
 
You could either have a project that does not generate any revenue and thus has bad infrastructure which impairs your gameplay immensely. Or you give people a reason to donate.
Now what do you give them? You can't give them items cause it would break the game. Actually you can't give them anything that is artificially created. Like gold, level or w/e.
Solution, give them the opportunity to use stuff that does not change any aspect of the game. Tabards, non combat pets, different mounts and yes, also the auction.
The characters don't just magically appear, they just change the owner. Thats it.

You say people should have a reason to "donate". Non-combat pets, Mounts, tabards, other vanity items (such as ogre idol from TCG), race change and faction change are all great options that don't break the game or give unfair advantages to people who have more money to throw around.

You say that you shouldn't be able to donate for "gold, level or w/e." that "does not change any aspect of the game". Yet you are in favour of people buying and selling characters.
This will greatly affect the economy and the balance of the game. People spending more money will have more alts, which means more proffessions (more gold), more options for PvE, PvP, grinding etc etc. People spending more money will have an advantage.

And yes, from the buyers perspective these characters appear from thin air.


Think of it as a lottery. If you really are lucky enought (and I doubt this is happening anytime soon, or ever) to find a high character in there, well grats to you.

I was not aware that there are no such things as 3rd party armoriess, screenshots, or inspecting people in game. Now I know.
 
You say people should have a reason to "donate". Non-combat pets, Mounts, tabards, other vanity items (such as ogre idol from TCG), race change and faction change are all great options that don't break the game or give unfair advantages to people who have more money to throw around.

You say that you shouldn't be able to donate for "gold, level or w/e." that "does not change any aspect of the game". Yet you are in favour of people buying and selling characters.
This will greatly affect the economy and the balance of the game. People spending more money will have more alts, which means more proffessions (more gold), more options for PvE, PvP, grinding etc etc. People spending more money will have an advantage.

And yes, from the buyers perspective these characters appear from thin air.

But as stated, this is unavoidable, if people think they can earn something from selling unused characters they will sell them and if people want the unfair advantage buying such characters give them, they will buy the characters, the question is; should Twinstar be allowed to earn money from these transactions?

Edit: As to OPs point that the character auction give Kronos' competition something to fling mud with, I don't really think it will change anything, even if there is a slight 'pay-to-win' feature on Kronos, it won't stop people from playing here aslong as Kronos (as things look at the moment) will be miles ahead quality-wise of any other vanilla server out there.

Personally I don't really care if the auction's there or not, however since the auction is one of the features Twinstar uses to make money (and Twinstar is a business, they need to make money) I don't really think the devs of Kronos has any say in whether the auction's there or not anyhow, but I don't know anything about Twinstar's internal workings, just speculating.
 
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But as stated, this is unavoidable, if people think they can earn something from selling unused characters they will sell them and if people want the unfair advantage buying such characters give them, they will buy the characters, the question is; should Twinstar be allowed to earn money from these transactions?

There's a huge, HUGE difference between making rules against people selling characters and actively pursue and ban people for doing so and actively encouraging.
On the one hand you say "This is a problem, let's try to fix it." and on the other you're saying "We cant fix it to 100% so let's make some easy money.".
Saying something is againt the rules and banning people for breaking said rules deters peope from breaking rules. Aka, forbid character auctions and less character auctions will happen.
 
There's a huge, HUGE difference between making rules against people selling characters and actively pursue and ban people for doing so and actively encouraging.
On the one hand you say "This is a problem, let's try to fix it." and on the other you're saying "We cant fix it to 100% so let's make some easy money.".
Saying something is againt the rules and banning people for breaking said rules deters peope from breaking rules. Aka, forbid character auctions and less character auctions will happen.

That is true, but since it's practically impossible for the server to track black market character transactions there will most likely never be a case of anyone getting banned for it and WoW players have a long and proud tradition of cheating if they think they can get away with it.

Banning all transactions will make alot of people who would never consider using the auction anyhow not do the transactions, those that want an advantage nomatter the cost (which for the most part is the clientele for character transactions in the first place), will still buy characters.
 
there are two almost same threads bout this BLSHT? k

from my point of view, official auction, where you pay with stars, is not bad at all.. nobody can earn money from these transactions, so i would say it doesnt embrace people to steal accs, neither it doesnt ruin economy as GOLD for CHAR transactions, nor it gives anyone any abnormal advantage.. what more, you support the server..
 
The auctions don't bother me in any way. It's nice that if you leveled a character to 40, 50 or 60 and would rather play something else you can trade it for a diff class. Buyout price is 10-15€ so if your character is valuable you will sell it on the black market for real cash not twinstar points. Be aware that the auctions are limited to what characters people are willing to auction.


The only people that make a problem out of this are overestimating the impact this feature has or they are only just trying to flame in order to win people over for the project they support. These are the same people saying kronos sucks because 1 mob in the barrens uses frost nova and kites you i don't remember that from retail lol i think it not blizzlike lol kronos is fun server. Instead of providing proof of why it is not correct.

If you are a fanboy of something else the best way to convince people is saying: "our server is better because..." instead of saying "kronos sucks because of that 1 thing"
 
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Why do you keep acting like its is BUYING. It is not. You can't buy characters.
How does this have any impact on the economy if a character is on account A or on account B?

Who puts those chars up there, where do they come from? Would you level a character to 60, gear it up just to get rid of it at the end? Wait, I think I can guess the answer.

I never heard any complaints about that system from players who actively play or played on Twinstars server. Why does everyone try to make a bigger deal ouf of this then it actually is?


BTW: I assume a high level or geared character on Kronos would not be something you sell over the auction when you have the chance to sell it on ownedcore or w/e for real money instead.
 
lock these threads FFS, it's just pointless flame.. people who played here knows it does work well and server and players can eventually profits from this.. other people, who wanna flame and hate can suck a donkey dck :)
 
From the advertising issue point of view (and I'm serious) - how about we change the name into "Character Lottery". I've seen Lharts repeat himself in saying it really is a lottery and as it may seem like a small difference, well, it isn't.
 
From the advertising issue point of view (and I'm serious) - how about we change the name into "Character Lottery". I've seen Lharts repeat himself in saying it really is a lottery and as it may seem like a small difference, well, it isn't.

This... would at least minimize the impact that this issue is having in the community right now.

I was actually unaware of the Character Auction until these issues were brought here. What will actually go a long way is making sure that this service is clearly visible, documented and explained (with all sides of the debate, how it could be considered P2W / Not P2W) clearly on a main page of the Kronos site.

New community members, and those who see this as a turnoff will at least realize that Twinstar takes this issue seriously and is not "hiding" this feature so they can make some quick cash. A server without income is doomed to fail, so I do support this.


Within the debate: I believe people see this as P2W because a new person coming to this server has the potential to instantly purchase a lvl 60 (no matter how rare that chance is) and therefore will be skipping all the content / time that others have put into their characters.

What is overlooked is that these "purchased" characters are not made from thin air by a GM. It was a character that has been on the server and went through the time & content just like everyone else's. Where the problem arises seems to be that someone gets to skip that time & content while others (people who don't pay) have to commit to that time & content.

Honestly it is a very touchy subject and I would advise not locking these topics because it is something that should be discussed so the correct information can be spread.
 
How are they hiding anything? Most people just don't bother to actually look at the user panel.
 
I meant this to be a simple opinion thread, since there seems to be some people on either side of the fence and I was curious as to how these viewpoints will impact playing here. Lock this if it upsets you, but I thought it would be a major point of discussion seeing as it appears to be deterring some of the playerbase after being brought to light.
 
How are they hiding anything? Most people just don't bother to actually look at the user panel.

You are absolutely right, Twinstar is not hiding anything. And you are right again, people don't look at the user panel on the main twinstar site when they are participating in these Kronos forums.

The point being is that listing this feature clearly (and for the express purpose of maintaining hardware) would be considered "good will" and will ease many people's fears that it is not a P2W system.

Listing this info in a well documented manner (even throwing in where these funds directly go to!) is going to solve the "misinformation" problem. Additionally, it is better than censoring posts that are simply trying to understand this abnormal (aka: was not in retail wow) feature and devolve into:
People like to be morons. They enjoy it so much that they do it every day.
The narrow-minded people on /r/wowservers don't know shit what they are talking about and interpret this thing completely wrong.

My point is this: Those "Narrow-minded" people on /r/wowservers are Kronos' potential playerbase. Don't insult them or push this kind of info under the rug because YOU already know this information and they do not, it will only push them and others who see these outbursts away from Kronos. You are right; this is not P2W. So inform them (calmly).

Related: http://xkcd.com/1053/
 
Honestly, even if CAs were to be removed from Kronos, people on the webs would still whine about it one way or another or spread misinformation. And removing them would be proving those people right, which annoys me anyway. It would be like admitting they're right in saying CAs are a big bad scary problem, which they aren't.
 
Personally, I don't care if it stays or not as I don't see it as harmful, but I would like a little more transparency on the subject so that matters are concise to all parties.
 
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Why do you keep acting like its is BUYING. It is not. You can't buy characters.
How does this have any impact on the economy if a character is on account A or on account B?

Who puts those chars up there, where do they come from? Would you level a character to 60, gear it up just to get rid of it at the end? Wait, I think I can guess the answer.

I never heard any complaints about that system from players who actively play or played on Twinstars server. Why does everyone try to make a bigger deal ouf of this then it actually is?


BTW: I assume a high level or geared character on Kronos would not be something you sell over the auction when you have the chance to sell it on ownedcore or w/e for real money instead.

Of course it's buying. Wether im paying in USD, Stars or flowerpots doesn't matter, who the seller is doesnt matter either. Im exchanging goods for a currency, that's the definition of buying something.

First hand experience is not a prerequisite for critique. It feels like im arguing with a five year old when talking to you.


From the advertising issue point of view (and I'm serious) - how about we change the name into "Character Lottery". I've seen Lharts repeat himself in saying it really is a lottery and as it may seem like a small difference, well, it isn't.

It's not a lottery though, its a purchase. You spend currency and recieve goods. It's a purchase.
 
I meant this to be a simple opinion thread, since there seems to be some people on either side of the fence and I was curious as to how these viewpoints will impact playing here. Lock this if it upsets you, but I thought it would be a major point of discussion seeing as it appears to be deterring some of the playerbase after being brought to light.

I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but there are at last 3 threads already about the same.. As there are for xp rates, BG commands, content tuning, etc...
 
Talking to a wall doesn't feel any better either.

You're the one who keeps bringing up logical fallacies bro. Care to explain how what Kronos is doing isn't "buying" characters, or do you want to stay off topic?
 
You're the one who keeps bringing up logical fallacies bro. Care to explain how what Kronos is doing isn't "buying" characters, or do you want to stay off topic?

It's more like trading character not buying it. If Kronos would sell characters, they would just create new ones out of nothing an THAT would be buying characters and of course it would be p2w. Now it's the same as giving your character to a friend or do you believe that also is p2w? Maybe that friend pays in some other way? :blushing: Either way there has to be someone WILLING to put his character up for auction. Now please guess how many people would even do that lol.
The other problem you think would be that players with a lot of money would "hoard" high level characters with all the professions and so on? Well they can still play with only one character at a time so I really don't see much problem there... Well I guess they technically can since alt-tabbing is allowed but you won't be raiding with 5 characters at the same time anyway :rolleyes2:
In the end characters stay the same, only players change. What do you care if a player next to you leveled on his own or traded his character? He can suck at playing either way so you can just block him and don't raid/play/whatever with him...
Imo it's better to let players trade characters that they don't want/are bored with than letting those characters collect dust. You would have never seen that character anyway and now someone plays with it. Is it really that bad?
And those that want and have the money to buy characters will still buy them on underground sites. I mean look at other games, even skill based games for example Dota 2 has people that buy accounts with higher MMR/ELO... How retarded is that? Why would you want to play against people that are way better than you, then get rekt and fall down to your rank? I'll tell you why - because people are ****ts and you have to deal with it. Same will happen here and the bad players that bought their way to the top will get shunned and ignored.
And if you don't want to level a character you can just hire a chinese guy for 5 dollars/month to level it for you anyway :laugh:

TL;DR Character auction has NO impact on server economy, on you, on your self-esteem or anything else for that matter. Enough shitposts already.
 
It's more like trading character not buying it. If Kronos would sell characters, they would just create new ones out of nothing an THAT would be buying characters and of course it would be p2w. Now it's the same as giving your character to a friend or do you believe that also is p2w? Maybe that friend pays in some other way? :blushing: Either way there has to be someone WILLING to put his character up for auction. Now please guess how many people would even do that lol.
The other problem you think would be that players with a lot of money would "hoard" high level characters with all the professions and so on? Well they can still play with only one character at a time so I really don't see much problem there... Well I guess they technically can since alt-tabbing is allowed but you won't be raiding with 5 characters at the same time anyway :rolleyes2:
In the end characters stay the same, only players change. What do you care if a player next to you leveled on his own or traded his character? He can suck at playing either way so you can just block him and don't raid/play/whatever with him...
Imo it's better to let players trade characters that they don't want/are bored with than letting those characters collect dust. You would have never seen that character anyway and now someone plays with it. Is it really that bad?
And those that want and have the money to buy characters will still buy them on underground sites. I mean look at other games, even skill based games for example Dota 2 has people that buy accounts with higher MMR/ELO... How retarded is that? Why would you want to play against people that are way better than you, then get rekt and fall down to your rank? I'll tell you why - because people are ****ts and you have to deal with it. Same will happen here and the bad players that bought their way to the top will get shunned and ignored.
And if you don't want to level a character you can just hire a chinese guy for 5 dollars/month to level it for you anyway :laugh:

TL;DR Character auction has NO impact on server economy, on you, on your self-esteem or anything else for that matter. Enough shitposts already.

"Characters that would otherwise gather dust are now being played"
"No effect on the server economy"
Yeah, cause more tailors/alchemists/herbalists/miners/skinners etc definately wont affect the server economy. Not at all.

You say that if Kronos would be creating these characters from nothing and selling them then it would be pay2win. I fail to see how this is very different, the buyer pays money to bring a character that "gathers dust" back to life, this is esentially the same as creating a new. Except someone leveled it a long time ago, which doesnt change anything at all in this case.

Buying/selling characters was forbidden on retail for a reason, and it should remain forbidden here for the exact same reason.
 
"Characters that would otherwise gather dust are now being played"
"No effect on the server economy"
Yeah, cause more tailors/alchemists/herbalists/miners/skinners etc definately wont affect the server economy. Not at all.

It will not affect the economy because you still need the same amount of time to gather materials... Even if the player didn't trade this character he would just have same char a month later. Does that change anything? Just assume that he played 24/7 and didn't trade all those characters from other players. Is the economy broken now?

What I'm saying is - a player instead of leveling himself got his character from another player that leveled it the same way he would have. The amount of time it took to get that character to its current state didn't vanish anywhere, it is preserved.

You say that if Kronos would be creating these characters from nothing and selling them then it would be pay2win. I fail to see how this is very different, the buyer pays money to bring a character that "gathers dust" back to life, this is esentially the same as creating a new. Except someone leveled it a long time ago, which doesnt change anything at all in this case.

OK just assume that the same person started playing with that character again. Is this the same as creating a new one?

Buying/selling characters was forbidden on retail for a reason, and it should remain forbidden here for the exact same reason.


Yeaaaah I'm pretty sure nobody ever traded a character on retail :lol:
 
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