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Showcase: Creature AI #2 and Changelog 17.08.2014 - 07.09.2014

ffaxu

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Sep 9, 2014
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#51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EypbujTucuw&t=3m25s
The Crimson Conjurer casts Frost Nova and runs out of the warrior's reach to cast a fire spell.
Oh man I remember those fuckers now! You always had to be really careful where you would pull them in Strat live because they always run into and agro another group. I can't speak to the Silverpine examples given above but the Strat live example I definitely remember. But it's also the only example I remember for that happening.

The way Sarilus Foulborne runs around is definitely non standard in my mind. Same with him conjuring again when he has his allotted adds. This quote from the YouTube video is probably most telling:
Mobs actually making use of their CC? Mobs KITING the player? I never played retail vanilla myself, but I did play retail from late WotLK to early MoP and I can tell you what: such things never happening to me
Do mobs have this amazing AI in retail today?

Would very much like to see more video evidence of this.
 
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Amrod

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Aug 8, 2014
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#52
Sarilus Foulborne is an exception, it looks like he got a proper c++ script, he's not following "general" AI rules set for mobs. He's supposed to be extra annoying. Just look at the comments on wowhead: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=3986/sarilus-foulborne#comments
Then I charged Sarilus, hit him with frost shock to keep him from running away
What he does is summon a bunch of the water elementals as mentioned above, then run 20-30 yards away and pelt you with frostbolts, periodically pausing to summon more elementals.
Showing this mob as an example of general mob behaviour was maybe a bit ambiguous. The silverpine mobs on the other hand are showing exactly the same behaviour as the Crimson Conjurer in the video.
 

Lharts

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Nov 29, 2012
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#53
Sarilus Foulborne is an exception, it looks like he got a proper c++ script, he's not following "general" AI rules set for mobs. He's supposed to be extra annoying. Just look at the comments on wowhead: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=3986/sarilus-foulborne#comments


Showing this mob as an example of general mob behaviour was maybe a bit ambiguous. The silverpine mobs on the other hand are showing exactly the same behaviour as the Crimson Conjurer in the video.
You are right and wrong here.
Sarilus is definetly a special mob, on Kronos he still follows the same AI as all other mobs do.
This means. Every mob is capable of doing the exact same thing as him if you let them. So it is a matter of configuration.
In his case he does not only run away when a player is rooted, but also when the player is near him.
There is no script on Kronos personally for him. Which is exactly why it is so amazing :biggrin:

And btw, the reason you can't remember this is easy. Not many mobs had these spell combinations.
- Root Effect + Range
 
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Zed

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Sep 23, 2013
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#57
@Chero
Could u be a little faster on adding the actual video to the showcase playlist, this one is still missing.
 

ffaxu

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#60
Sarilus is definetly a special mob, on Kronos he still follows the same AI as all other mobs do.
This means. Every mob is capable of doing the exact same thing as him if you let them. So it is a matter of configuration.
Just to be clear here are you saying all mobs with slow will kite players? Or are you saying that all mobs with slow have the ability to kite players but won't?
 

Lharts

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#61
You can't generalize. It all depends on how the mobs works retail :)
The AI is able to do it, that doesn't necessarily mean it must. So not all mobs with slows will try to kite the player arround, but some will.

If you attack one of the spiders in the video alone, with no other mob, then the spider will also net you, but it will not run away since it is a melee mob.
So, the AI of the spider checks if it makes sense for the spider to gain range or not.

On retail a combination of mobs would greatly effect their behavior. Lets say a single mob with stuns and range casts is really rare (not sure if they even exist).
A small example:
You have two mobs you want to attack. 1 is a mage, 1 is a rogue.
Since you are a melee you want to take down the clothie first and start wacking away on the mage.
The mage spams frostbolts on you slowing you down, but it doesn't move just yet.
Now this is where the other mob comes into play. The rogue now stuns you giving the mage mob the chance to run away and restart casting from further away.
This is a scenario you can expect.

For reference, Redridge Bashers and Redridge Mystic. The bashers stun you while you try to take down the Mystic and the Mystic runs away.


Ever did the quest for the https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=12529 in LBRS on another "blizzlike" vanilla server? Have fun doing that on Kronos with random root procs and caster mobs all along the way to Wrymthalak :biggrin:
 

Zed

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#62
Thanks for the clarification, this seems to confuse more people then expected.
Just look at the database what skill a mob got,
or a group of mobs then u can guess what combos can happen.
 

Wind

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#64
Except for those who experience Vanilla back in Retail, most of players knowing this period only with private servers are not used to this since they never saw it scripted. Another great point goes for Kronos.
 

ffaxu

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#65
Except for those who experience Vanilla back in Retail, most of players knowing this period only with private servers are not used to this since they never saw it scripted. Another great point goes for Kronos.
And even then I've clearly forgotten a lot haha. I just wanted to add that I'm really impressed with the way this conversation has been going. People linking videos and links to wow head as evidence and having a real discussion instead of getting defensive and angry. I'm also impressed with the level of attention given to recreate an authentic vanilla experience; to even dig out the in depth mechanics of one random quest mob on top of one foggy mountain speaks volumes about the dedication to recreating the real experience.
 

Lharts

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#66
He was a good way to test the general mob mechanic so I guess it just adds up to use him for a video :)

So far I never had real problems with discussions on Twinstar and Kronos. The community always was really friendly, mature and reasonable. This is one of my favorite things about this project. Besides the fact that they give me exactly what I want to play. A server that gets as close to retail as possible.
 

Nain

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Aug 18, 2014
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#67
I noticed a bug in the Creature AI #2 video. When heroic strike was used, it was really easy to queue it from a distance, maybe it was permanent, and this shouldn't be the case. You shouldn't be able to queue heroic strike outside of melee range, or at least for more than like ~1 second iirc.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
 

avyl

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Aug 16, 2014
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#68
I noticed a bug in the Creature AI #2 video. When heroic strike was used, it was really easy to queue it from a distance, maybe it was permanent, and this shouldn't be the case. You shouldn't be able to queue heroic strike outside of melee range, or at least for more than like ~1 second iirc.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong.

Heroic strike is supposed to be queued, replacing a normal melee attack with additional damage. Imagine it wouldn't, how could you make sure it actually replaces normal melee attack, spam it?
 

Wind

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#69
Back in Vanilla I could queue Heroic Strike from a long range, just had to target someone. I was usually doing this with the Improved Charge in order to move quickly on the enemy 10y further and then instantly use Heroic Strike followed by a normal and Mortal Strike. Sadly I don't remember the exact range but I'm sure it wasn't only melee required.

And no, it is not replacing but following a normal melee attack like Cleave.
 

avyl

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#70
Back in Vanilla I could queue Heroic Strike from a long range, just had to target someone. I was usually doing this with the Improved Charge in order to move quickly on the enemy 10y further and then instantly use Heroic Strike followed by a normal and Mortal Strike. Sadly I don't remember the exact range but I'm sure it wasn't only melee required.

And no, it is not replacing but following a normal melee attack like Cleave.
Nope, Heroic strike replaces an auto attack with additional bonus dmg, hence the queue like autoattack.
 
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Nain

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#73
I also noticed that the skeleton at 2:25 in the video instantly meleed after a cast. Surely this isn't correct.
 
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