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    TwinStar team

Warlock State of WL on the alliance side!

mecksn

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Apr 12, 2016
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#1
heyho,

i wanted to ask the veteran Warlocks from the alliance around here how life in pvp actually feels like going against these crazy amounts of UD's everywhere.

I remember from retail vanilla that my mates always cried about having no chance at all, but with my alt warlord on the horde site i was having a blast...

So i am just curious how is it around here? pretty much what i heard from retail or is it somewhat different? better worse ;>?

greetings
 

Lharts

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Nov 29, 2012
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#2
Typical misconception that WOTF ices your game as lock.
As horde lock you got it way worse with cleanse spamming paladins, shadow resistance auras and dwarf priests.
Not to mention the alli racials suit a lock very well. Escape artist is probably the best racial for locks.

Go alli lock, you won't regret it.
 

Rains

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Apr 20, 2015
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#5
Wotf is good, but it doesnt last that long, cast fear again:) also fear still interrupts cast for example and stops the opponent to plan his/her actions again.

Never played horde side as lock, but from duel experience have to say that fear ward is lot stronger against locks than wotf.

Also want to add that yes escape artist is alot stronger than perception, but perception is very handy aswell cause as lock(no consus) stunlock is deth. Paranoia+perception is very nice against rogue heavy teams.
 

terror13

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#6
@Lharts wow....what a lot of shit lol.

The Guys an undead lock, surprise surprise.

Hows seduce going? enjoy fearing the other enemy after the other is seduced? removed those two abilities from your warlock, thats alliance warlock PvP.

Stop talking shit, the skill needs removed from the game so it can be fucking fair.

I played warlock at vanilla and it was bad then and it's bad now.

"cleanse spamming paladins" can they cleanse themselves? sorry can't preists and shamans do that shit? bullshit point, also thats a class, not a race or 1v1.

"shadow resist aura's" is a problem for both sides? aswell as any resist aura for anyone, like ours for a mage, thats just the classes.

Dwarf Priests, yeah cause 1 fear immunity is worse than removing a fear already on you and having immunity to as many as you can cast, aswell as seduce and sleep.

Cool story bro.
 

Topmong

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Apr 11, 2016
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#7
There are a lot of counterplays to wotf in vanilla. You can nade, coil, net/coex melees (you can also just use antivenom/ea and any sprint to keep distance from rogues with) if needed and just lock/line casters if you don't wanna nade or whatever.

In larger fights, if you want to provide utility over damage, you can just fear one cast -> fear the next guy's cast, then fear them again once their will runs out if you deem it necessary. If you just interrupt a few heals and lock the third guy's holy/nature school and have cot on all of them it's likely that they've already fallen behind in healing.

I agree that cleanse is sort of easy to outplay on fear/coil by just covering it with corruption, but you can avoid fear as a dwarf priest way longer than you can as an UD, not to mention that you can't cast wotf as a buff on friendly players that are about to get feared. FW also has 1/4th of wotf's cooldown.

Cool story bro.
 

Horo

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#8
I'd like to add to this post:
There are a lot of counterplays to wotf in vanilla. You can nade, coil, net/coex melees (you can also just use antivenom/ea and any sprint to keep distance from rogues with) if needed and just lock/line casters if you don't wanna nade or whatever.

In larger fights, if you want to provide utility over damage, you can just fear one cast -> fear the next guy's cast, then fear them again once their will runs out if you deem it necessary. If you just interrupt a few heals and lock the third guy's holy/nature school and have cot on all of them it's likely that they've already fallen behind in healing.

I agree that cleanse is sort of easy to outplay on fear/coil by just covering it with corruption, but you can avoid fear as a dwarf priest way longer than you can as an UD, not to mention that you can't cast wotf as a buff on friendly players that are about to get feared. FW also has 1/4th of wotf's cooldown.

Cool story bro.

  • At least wotf doesn't get purged by any competent shaman or priest, mostly affects dwarf priests in group pvp.
  • Fearward doesn't give you 50% DR on the next fear, Wotf does.
  • Cooldown doesn't matter when encounters are rare (world pvp). Wotf's consistentcy is it's greatest strength.

As always consumables/engineering fix everything.
 
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Topmong

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#9
This is completely offtopic, but whatever.
At least wotf doesn't get purged by any competent shaman or priest, mostly affects dwarf priests in group pvp.
You have 8-13 available covers to use as a dwarf priest. You can also time your ward right as the fear is about to land in case you're unable to guard the one you have up.
Fearward doesn't give you 50% DR on the next fear, Wotf does.
I've never honestly found fear DR on yourself a big thing in vanilla, the opponent will get a cast/burst on your fc off during any fear.
Cooldown doesn't matter when encounters are rare (world pvp). Wotf's consistentcy is it's greatest strength.
You can get feared multiple times during a single wpvp encounter? What the fuck is this logic, do you also insist that a warrior is the best 1v1 class since you can use swall/reck/reta, spider belt, rhelm, swift boots, whipper root tuber, 20x elixir of poison resistance and lap every fight?

I'm by no means a specially skilled priest, but I do have a fair bunch of experience at vanilla priest, and I way prefer fearward over wotf.

Forgot to say in the first post that horde WL is probably easier to get into since you don't have to watch totems/will, but alliance WL is by no means bad, you'll just have to work your way around enemy cooldowns a bit more than you would on an undead.
 
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Horo

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#10
This is completely offtopic, but whatever.
You have 8-13 available covers to use as a dwarf priest. You can also time your ward right as the fear is about to land in case you're unable to guard the one you have up.
Wotf is good, but it doesnt last that long, cast fear again:)
Keep dreaming up your phantasy of "alliance warlock is not bad, git gud scrub". I can't reason with unreasonable people. If it isn't good, how is it not bad? Do you even know what relativity is?

alliance WL is by no means bad, you'll just have to work your way around enemy cooldowns a bit more than you would on an undead.
What will you do in a 1v1 warlock vs warlock when your enemy has a succy out? Fel Dom out a Felhunter and try to counterspell the succy, or eat the charm with the dispell?

So much crap in this thread. Lharts brings up sensible points, and they're true, but the fact of the matter is "why bother" when I can just play UD instead and have a good time?

Let me make my Warlock UD and then go to the forums and argue that it's ez to defeat UD.

Don't get me started on broken pets which don't react to my commands, even me targeting a grounding totem and hitting "pet attack" doesn't do anything, the pets do not obey. Why bother? I'll rather play a more balanced game, like Overwatch.
 

Topmong

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#11
I really hope that you're just trolling, but reading some of these posts makes me feel you're just really ignorant and stubborn.

If it isn't good, how is it not bad?
There's no black and white "good and bad" in vanilla wow (or most of things in this world, really), there's a lot of grey area in between. A good example of an alliance warlock doing well in pvp would be dush's ED movie, in case you're unable to judge how the players on kronos are performing. I also don't think "it's not as easy to get into as a horde warlock so it must be bad" is a good counterargument to what you quoted at all. I proved your claim about FW wrong and you respond with this?

What will you do in a 1v1 warlock vs warlock when your enemy has a succy out? Fel Dom out a Felhunter and try to counterspell the succy, or eat the charm with the dispell?

Let me make my Warlock UD and then go to the forums and argue that it's ez to defeat UD.

Don't get me started on broken pets which don't react to my commands, even me targeting a grounding totem and hitting "pet attack" doesn't do anything, the pets do not obey. Why bother? I'll rather play a more balanced game, like Overwatch.
I don't see why wouldn't you have a felhunter out going into a fight with another lock, but you could always skull the seduce in case you didn't want to use devour for some reason. One could as well sapper (which I don't recommend if you can't see the succ and time it as it's way too risky otherwise) or restorative pot beforehand if they wanted to be flashy with cooldowns.

Can't speak about overwatch since I've never tried it, but I've never had any trouble with pet totem macros (or simply attacks) here. Do you have footage of what you're doing when the pet attack bugs on totems and how long ago was it?

For the record, I play alliance here: dwarf priest. Sometimes do a few games on my friend's gnome lock.

Let's compare the skill that 10% of the player base has (generous) to 42% of the horde? Who is shit posting now?
Chances are you'll run into dwarf priests in prem v prem. And I think that there's so many variables causing losses in pug games that complaining over the amount of undead in the game seems rather irrational. At least most of my pug losses are caused by people afking / giving up / not caring about objectives rather than people playing one or other race, and I'm sure you would agree.

I never claimed standings have anything to do with skill. I just brought up statistical evidence that Fear Ward is nowhere as good as wotf, if it was then more people would play dwarf priests to gain access to fear ward.
I don't think very many of the people that come to play vanilla actually want to tryhard with racials considering the fact that you can do pretty well and be flashy on just about any race/class combination. There's no rated arena here. The main reason there are more undead than dwarves on any server is that most people enjoy looking at undead animations/model over chubby dwarf female butt. Some people also might prefer undead for more fun gameplay over dwarf as stoneform is really boring to play with. (no rogue ever attempting to blind you kind of kills an aspect of the game.)

If it's worth anything, I've seen a larger amount of good alliance priests than horde priests on this server.

You still didn't try to debunk any of the reasons I based my argument about FW being better than wotf. Do you have any experience at vanilla priest, out of curiosity? You seem very inexperienced in matters regarding races.

All I say is that undead warlocks are on average, more easy to do well in pvp than alliance warlocks. Reading comprehension. Better respond to what I actually write instead of your interpretation of what I write.

How can I take anyone serious who says "diminishing returns for cc in pvp doesn't matter."

So all I have to do is to play better than my opponent to be on equal footing. But it's okay, because alliance has paladins in 1v1 right? Next time please make up your mind, whether it's 1v1 or group pvp.
You said these very words: "Keep dreaming up your phantasy of 'alliance warlock is not bad, git gud scrub'. If it isn't good, how is it not bad?", "'why bother' when I can just play UD instead and have a good time?", "Let me make my Warlock UD and then go to the forums and argue that it's ez to defeat UD." I think you're saying a bit more than just claiming them to be a bit easier to do well on - that's more akin to what I'm claiming although not quite on spot.

I claimed that the dr for ONE SPELL in ONE VERSION OF THE GAME on YOURSELF as ONE CLASS (priest) isn't very relevant as you generally have really many escapes/avoids from it and the opponent will have time to perform their burst even on halved fears. It's also just my personal opinion based on my experience in vanilla priest, I don't know why would you decide that it lets you somehow ignore every other valid argument in my posts.

I don't understand why do you think wotf would have a groundbreaking effect on warlock 1v1 as you have really many answers and escapes for it, especially with how devour works here and felhunters with 5pc t2 bonus being basically a waste to go for a banish on since they'll resist at least 4 in a row unless you pop eye of moam.

Puuuurrgeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

and undeads don't need some dwarf priest to lick their asshole all the time, they can make plays. The priest might have more useful things to do than run around giving fearward to people. There is opportunity cost to casting fear ward, there is none to wotf as you're unable to do anything but wotf out of the specified cc.
I already responded about the purge but you completely ignored it. But if you think it's worth it spending 10 globals and 2k mana dispelling a r1 renew among other things, be my guest.

You can "commit plays" and dodge/stop/escape fear on alliance side as well. You don't need a dwarf priest hugging you to beat warlocks.

Wotf also has an opportunity cost; when you wotf the first fear thrown on you by the enemy warlock to pass mid, you won't be able to wotf the second fear when he fears you again as you're about to dispel/heal/shield your fc who's trying to escape ebase with flag. On the contrary, you'll generally have FW up for both as it has a lower opportunity cost due to the shorter CD. Makes me wonder if you've ever played priest at all.
 

Lharts

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Nov 29, 2012
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#12
@Lharts wow....what a lot of shit lol.

The Guys an undead lock, surprise surprise.

Hows seduce going? enjoy fearing the other enemy after the other is seduced? removed those two abilities from your warlock, thats alliance warlock PvP.

Stop talking shit, the skill needs removed from the game so it can be fucking fair.

I played warlock at vanilla and it was bad then and it's bad now.

"cleanse spamming paladins" can they cleanse themselves? sorry can't preists and shamans do that shit? bullshit point, also thats a class, not a race or 1v1.

"shadow resist aura's" is a problem for both sides? aswell as any resist aura for anyone, like ours for a mage, thats just the classes.

Dwarf Priests, yeah cause 1 fear immunity is worse than removing a fear already on you and having immunity to as many as you can cast, aswell as seduce and sleep.

Cool story bro.
I'd choose Orc lock if my goal was maximum effectiveness in PvP. It is just that orc looks like a downsyndrome green monkey.

Please compare WOTF with EA and tell me exactly which is better and why. This is going to be interesting.

Pallies and priests can't remove fear from themselves, shamans can. Wow good point. Ever tried to fear a target twice that is running away from you or LoSing you properly? Good luck with that.
Totems are stationary while palading and priests tend to run in circles quite a bit.

60 resistance is a huge deal. It doesn't stop there though. As horde you get 60 too from priest buff. Guess what, this can be dispelled while auras can't. Make sure to wear at least 20 spell pen or your fears will get resisted way too much. 60 resistance = 15% chance to resist. Not counting the fear resist talents for priest and pally.

Fear DR is the only valid point in favor for WOTF. And thats a pretty lame one imo.
WOTF breaks fear, cool. Fearward makes you immune to them. Think about what happens when you cast a heal and get fears midcast. With WOTF thats effectively at least 1.5sec where you can not start another cast. I reality the time is usally higher than that. Fearward on the other hand lets you cast without interuption. So, even if the fear does not last on the target it will still open up a huge gap.
Worst case scenario: Cast healing spell, get feared at 2.4 seconds, use WOTF, recast heal.


Topmong got it right. Dwarf priests can avoid fear alot better then any undead can do. Encounters with good priests usually go like this.

-> cast fear
-> fear lands, immune
-> cast fear
-> before fear lands he casts Fearward, immune
-> cast fear, get out of range or LoS message...

If you time it right you can instantly dispel his 2nd Fearward right before your fear lands as it is usually not covered by any other magic effect. If he hasn't run out of your fear range already that is. Which they usually do since its only 20y compared to sheeps 30y.


Your retail experience with lock doesn't mean anything. This is 2016 and not 2006. People aswell as the meta evolved.

@Horo, I'd take Gnome lock over UD lock in a heartbeat. The number of times I got iced cause of slows is incredibly higher then beeing iced by seduce or fear. Lock 1v1 is NOT everything. You have the upper hand here as UD, whoop deee dooo.
 
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