Suggestions for Content

[sshroud]

Hello to you Kronos, I posted a similar thread over at Nostalrius and as I've been learning about these server projects I have become very interested to see the developers thoughts on topics like these.

I've been wanting to play the same game that I played back in '05-06 for a while now, unfortunately the game is ever-changing whether one likes it or not and for me this game ended up as something completely different from what I signed up for.

After having invested an substantial amount of time looking into private servers trying to emulate the classic version I found one recurring problem: most of the content is 1.12.1. The developers are always sane enough to limit the available dungeons and raids but the rest of the content is still 1.12.1. We're stuck in this awkward transition period between classic and Burning Crusade, where you are meant to explore Naxxramas and giddy up for new adventures in the new expansion(TBC).


With all that said, I think it would have been interesting to see more of the early mechanics and content, because that's how it was during a significant part of vanilla, here are some of my suggestions:

• Revert the dungeon nerf

  Patch 1.10: Along with the new Armor Sets, the high-level 5-10 man dungeons have received some changes regarding loot. Many items have been improved in quality and use. In addition, several epic items, such as Headmaster's Charge and the Runeblade of Baron Rivendare, have had their drop rates significantly increased. In order to preserve the challenge of these dungeons, they have had their instance caps lowered. Stratholme, Scholomance, and Blackrock Depths now allow a maximum of five players inside, and Blackrock Spire allows a maximum of ten.

In patch 1.10.0 Stratholme, Scholomance and Blackrock Depths had their instance caps decreased to 5 from 10. There had also been noteworthy nerfs to the dungeons: such as increased respawn-timer(high wipe-penalty) and changes to specific creatures stats and abilities. UBRS had some spawns removed and capped at 10 down from 15.

Proposed Solution: Change the cap back to 10, re-implement the wipe penalty and buff the inhabiting creatures that were nerfed throughout the various patches. The goal is allow players to re-experience the classic dungeons how they worked throughout most of the game(prior to new expansions).

• Reverting various item buffs

  Patch 1.4: +Spell damage and +Healing effects have been increased in effectiveness to make them more attractive to players. Effects that increased damage and healing done by all magical spells received the largest increase, especially if the previous amount was small. We also fixed a couple bugs relating to these effects.

  Patch 1.10: The following item sets have had their statistics, effects, and set bonuses updated:
  Arcanist, Netherwind, Prophecy, Transcendence, Felheart, Nemesis, Cenarion, Stormrage Raiment, Nightslayer, Bloodfang, Giantstalker, Dragonstalker, Earthfury, Ten Storms, Might, Wrath, Lawbringer, Judgement

  Patch 1.10: Many items in Blackrock Depths, Stratholme, Scholomance, and Blackrock Spire have been re-evaluated and adjusted to make them more appealing. In addition several new items have been added to all of these instances.

Proposed Solution: I was reluctant to add this since it would be complicated to address, however if there's information available regarding these changes then reverting them could greatly help with bringing back some of the PvE challenge. Especially for casters who are very overpowered early game in 1.12.1 private servers compared to during 1.3-1.5 on retail.

• Reverting raid dungeon nerfs

​Some of the raid bosses and especially 20-man raids have recieved some various nerfs. 40-man nerfs has been minor for the most part, but 20-man nerfs has been quite dramatic. Below is some examples to give an idea about the types of nerfs there have been:

Patch 1.8:

• Reduced the damage of the Mad Servant's fireball
• Reduced the number of Mad Voidwalkers that are summoned from the death of a Mad Servant from three to two.
• High Priestess Mar'li will now despawn her summoned spiders when she returns from combat.
• Slowed the rate at which High Priestess Arlokk's panthers spawn

Proposed Solution: Lift most non-bug-related change, so the content could be experienced as it was on retail, for better or worse.




At last I would like to bring up one problem that is harder to address; throughout classic there dozens of major revamps of all the classes and their talent trees, so goes for for a lot of the endgame items early on. While I understand that you may never be able to address all of these changes and for some of them, such as the class revamps, it might have been for the better.

The problem is that it trivializes the difficulty greatly, comparing the damage output from a Molten Core raid on a 1.12 private server to a raid group from retail back in 1.4 or 1.5 is quite staggering. People will probably brush their shoulders and say that they're simply much better players, but looking at the raw output from the players it's quite clear that their output is drastically different from what it was back then. I don't know how you can perfectly offset this except from averaging the disproportion between 1.4 and 1.12 and then compensate by modifying creature statistics to add up for it, but I'm sure that would offend certain players as well.

Not sure why I'm so worked up over this, since I didn't have any plans to play hardcore, but I guess I speak for more than myself when I say that I want to experience vanilla how it was meant to be played and I hope some of you developers behind this project will be able to address some of the major concerns. Cheers.

 

[Omni]

Implementing all of this would be great, but we simply can't revert all of the nerfs, and subsequently patch the game over time.

You would need an entire team of developers dedicated to the project, to researching the exact numbers of thousands of different aspects to get it correct. Private servers do not have the resources, both in time and manpower, for this kind of undertaking.

 

[Walgrave]

Pretty much what Omni said. It is a massive undertaking. I agree with all your points and would love to play the original version of the game. However, projects already have a hard time just to get anywhere near the feeling of 1.12.1 let alone perfecting it. Kronos may hopefully be one leap forward in terms of the quality of the real 1.12.1, and if it is, maybe a few years down the road people will consider your idea.

 

[dragonbane]

Agree with both Omni and Walgrave. But Kronos, in my eyes, will be the server that is the most closest in being blizzlike, and I don't plan to wait for any other server after it. Probably gonna continue with The Burning Crusade expansion after that. :smile:

 

[tobbe628]

For me, 1.12 feels like a more complete Vanilla Experience.

Great post tho, and i understand what you mean.
But whatever happens is that im here for Vanilla, and only vanilla.
I wont be expecting any TBC Expansion to be released by the creator of kronos

 

[nimeralos]

Yep, the suggestion seems nice, but unreal. Let's wait for the retail Vanilla on the 20th WoW Anniversary for this %)

 

[Aieris]

I suggest you guys to look at videos from Blizzcon 2005, where game designers are talking about how the game evolved and what they have learned. To sum it up, 1.12.1 content and then TBC is based on players feedback. There allways are whinners that say "it was better before", but it's minor part of the community. I am absolutely fine with 5 man Strat/scholo and 10 man UBRS. It's both, challenging and rewarding.

Furthermore, as Blizzard sayed before, vanilla is 10 years old. You will never again have the same feeling about it simply because you already know it, you played it a lot and it will never be the same as first time you've experienced it.

And as sayed above, there is nearly no evidence, how dungs and items looked before nerf. And IF you somehow implement it, then you find out, that you must change talent trees as well and that means downgrading the client version and that means reworking the whole core which will result in, in my opinion, 2+ years of develompent for something, that you will be discarding in 6 months.

BTW, i saw first world kill Ragnaros and i must tell you - I don't want to fight him like this. No knockbacks for meles, just tank and spank with some "lava splashes" that dameges the raid.

 

[milkutin]

And as sayed above, there is nearly no evidence, how dungs and items looked before nerf. And IF you somehow implement it, then you find out, that you must change talent trees as well and that means downgrading the client version and that means reworking the whole core which will result in, in my opinion, 2+ years of develompent for something, that you will be discarding in 6 months.

This. Exactly.

 

[Stivar]

I would like this very much. :smile:

But how long will it take? Thats the main problem i think.

 

[Lharts]

For pre-nerf dungeons (if you could call it nerf...) you would also need pre-revamp talent trees and pre-revamp items.

No.

 

[Ghostly]

you would also need pre-revamp talent trees

Imagine a world where people can't look up ready talent builds.