Other Tank class?
- Thread starter Loreon
- Start date
Gourmandises
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- Oct 29, 2014
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- Illinois
I'm not expert but from what I hear Warriors are the best. Paladin's have mana issues and also do not have a taunt. I do not know the problem with druids (mitigation?)
Rockmaster
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- Dec 25, 2014
Druids would be fine if there would be more gear for them.
they also lack an "oh shit" button, but for 5 mans they are good. Druid tanking in raids is possible if the gm lets you and you invest alot of time into building your druidtank (way more time then warrior)
Druid gear guide:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Level_60_druid_tanking_equipment
Druids and Paladins can tank anything preraid, but once you start raiding- a warrior is really the only option. That being said, it isn't impossible. Back in the day my guild had a druid tank select bosses in Molten Core for shits and giggles.
Gilthresa
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- Jan 27, 2015
Yea, when we did our speed/GDKP kills in MC at the Luci/Gehennas split one group would get tanked by our feral, and the other by one of our OTs
Honestly, the real problem with paladins and druids is their threat generation does not scale well. For example, if you have a rogue that outgears you by a lot, a paladin will never be able to hold enough threat against them. Druid will do better than the paladin, but they still pale in comparison to warrior tanks. That's not to say they can't do it (pre raid especially) but you're going to have trouble if you're undergeared compared to your DPS.
That said, warriors can also have trouble with overgeared DPS, but they have much better catchup mechanics for threat generation than any of the other classes, which gives them the obvious advantage.
That said, warriors can also have trouble with overgeared DPS, but they have much better catchup mechanics for threat generation than any of the other classes, which gives them the obvious advantage.
Norm964BGB
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- Jan 25, 2015
Not as serious as progress raiding. With proper CC/focustarget a hunter boar/bear can tank 5mans...
Everyone says that warrior is the best raid tank, druid is very rare and paladin is no-no. And how the things was back on retail, especially in the early Vanilla, when no one knew for sure who is the best? Say, tanks in raids were 95% warriors, 4.9% druids and 0.1% paladins..? Don't we have video evidences about prot-pal tanking a raid?
I'd like to hear your estimation about the subject.
I'd like to hear your estimation about the subject.
Kanariya
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- New Hampshire
Doesn't matter for dungeons. Pallies do well in the undead ones, especially for aoe threat gen.
Raids wise, can't see an issue with a Druid tanking a few MC bosses on farm. That's about it though. Their specs and their gear was just not designed to in vanilla, and Blizzard obviously realized the mistake in having only one class that could tank progression. It is what it is.
Raids wise, can't see an issue with a Druid tanking a few MC bosses on farm. That's about it though. Their specs and their gear was just not designed to in vanilla, and Blizzard obviously realized the mistake in having only one class that could tank progression. It is what it is.
Magnifican
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- Nov 2, 2014
Copied some of my post from another thread about the paladin tank:
-
There are only 3 roles, and in vanilla hybrids suffered from the hybrid tax http://www.wowwiki.com/Hybrid_Tax
This generally caused them to fall behind in dps and while they did have a whole tree dedicated to tanking, they were only good for offtanking some aoe trash, a role that a holy paladin could fill just as well, and the occasional raidboss. As soon as guilds started progression raiding and doing some mix/max theorycrafting, there were just no reason to pick them anymore. Even the few tankadins that are around admit in their guides that you gotta spend an enourmous amount of time and dedication, hundreds of gold on consumables, complex gearing for months and having luck with a guild that tolerate to even give you the chance, and even with all this in mind you still didnt come close to the overall Warrior tank. The only spec that did not suffer from the Hybrid tax all that much was the Holy tree, and boom! - just like that the paladins where pigeonholed into a one-role class, and for good reason, all the cool support the pally could give the raid was given by the holy pallies while the retris and prots got benched in favor of the pure dps classes and prot warriors.
All in all, This was vanilla, i.e. horrible class balance!
Blizzard acknowledged their mistake and changed the way hybrids worked in TBC, where both Druids and Paladins could tank on pair with the Warrior. They also changed a bunch of other specs so they didnt remain entirely useless like they were in vanilla.
I know that changing the talent trees or how the classes work wont ever happen on Kronos, but its a shame that it kinda limits the way to play the game and players options for no real good reason (thus why blizz changed it). Talent trees are hardcoded and not even possible to edit I think. But there could be gear specifically designed towards the tankadins for example (there are some already but-) with some modified stats to give us some extra stamina (we got far lower healthpool compared to warriors), extra intellect and mp5 (for threat and longer upkeep since we lack taunt etc). All to make up for our shortcomings and make us not so entirely useless, but we should still be behind warriors as maintanks I think ofc. Again, I know this wont happen on Kronos but one can still dream. And dont say "if you want pally tank go play TBC", I love vanilla content and almost everything about vanilla, except stupid itemization and horrible class balance.
-
Now I'd like to scratch this last bolded part about modifying gear as I realised that giving plate gear extra intellect and mp5 for better upkeep and threat generation would also affect the holy pallies out there and thus messing with the healing balance, so that's a big no-no and I realise my mistake there!
I did come up with another thought that would not touch or mess with other areas and classes in the game in the that way yet still make the prot pally slightly less useless in regards to threat and lack of taunt. That idea surrounds the 3rd tier prot talent "Improved Righteous Fury" (http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=11215875_2 )which gives 16%/33%/50% extra threat generated from the Righteous Fury https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=25780. From what I've gathered changing the talent trees tooltip is not possible, but changing the way the talent work once you put in all the point to it is still possible, even though the tooltip wont change. The third point in could improve threat generated to lets say 80% for example instead of 50%, even though the tooltip still says 50%. The aim here is to make a whole tree which is now utterly useless slightly less useless, yet still remaining behind the warrior as the superior main boss tank. Being able to hold threat and function as a better offtank would be really cool as that is perhaps the biggest issue for the protpallies out there and it would expand the game, while not hurting it in any way. There could be other talents that could be slightly modified in the prot tree but it seems way more risky to fiddle with and I wont suggest anything other than the threat issue and making a talent in the actual prot tree less useless.
Would appreciate some serious thought and discussion on this matter in a way to improve the game we love beyond the "vanilla is vanilla" and "no..." arguments. And the "if pally tank, make hunter/shaman able to tank too"-arguments are silly since they dont have a whole tree dedicated to that role. Prot pally is one of the least used trees in the game and it could be a good thing to make the game deeper.
-
There are only 3 roles, and in vanilla hybrids suffered from the hybrid tax http://www.wowwiki.com/Hybrid_Tax
This generally caused them to fall behind in dps and while they did have a whole tree dedicated to tanking, they were only good for offtanking some aoe trash, a role that a holy paladin could fill just as well, and the occasional raidboss. As soon as guilds started progression raiding and doing some mix/max theorycrafting, there were just no reason to pick them anymore. Even the few tankadins that are around admit in their guides that you gotta spend an enourmous amount of time and dedication, hundreds of gold on consumables, complex gearing for months and having luck with a guild that tolerate to even give you the chance, and even with all this in mind you still didnt come close to the overall Warrior tank. The only spec that did not suffer from the Hybrid tax all that much was the Holy tree, and boom! - just like that the paladins where pigeonholed into a one-role class, and for good reason, all the cool support the pally could give the raid was given by the holy pallies while the retris and prots got benched in favor of the pure dps classes and prot warriors.
All in all, This was vanilla, i.e. horrible class balance!
Blizzard acknowledged their mistake and changed the way hybrids worked in TBC, where both Druids and Paladins could tank on pair with the Warrior. They also changed a bunch of other specs so they didnt remain entirely useless like they were in vanilla.
I know that changing the talent trees or how the classes work wont ever happen on Kronos, but its a shame that it kinda limits the way to play the game and players options for no real good reason (thus why blizz changed it). Talent trees are hardcoded and not even possible to edit I think. But there could be gear specifically designed towards the tankadins for example (there are some already but-) with some modified stats to give us some extra stamina (we got far lower healthpool compared to warriors), extra intellect and mp5 (for threat and longer upkeep since we lack taunt etc). All to make up for our shortcomings and make us not so entirely useless, but we should still be behind warriors as maintanks I think ofc. Again, I know this wont happen on Kronos but one can still dream. And dont say "if you want pally tank go play TBC", I love vanilla content and almost everything about vanilla, except stupid itemization and horrible class balance.
-
Now I'd like to scratch this last bolded part about modifying gear as I realised that giving plate gear extra intellect and mp5 for better upkeep and threat generation would also affect the holy pallies out there and thus messing with the healing balance, so that's a big no-no and I realise my mistake there!
I did come up with another thought that would not touch or mess with other areas and classes in the game in the that way yet still make the prot pally slightly less useless in regards to threat and lack of taunt. That idea surrounds the 3rd tier prot talent "Improved Righteous Fury" (http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=11215875_2 )which gives 16%/33%/50% extra threat generated from the Righteous Fury https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=25780. From what I've gathered changing the talent trees tooltip is not possible, but changing the way the talent work once you put in all the point to it is still possible, even though the tooltip wont change. The third point in could improve threat generated to lets say 80% for example instead of 50%, even though the tooltip still says 50%. The aim here is to make a whole tree which is now utterly useless slightly less useless, yet still remaining behind the warrior as the superior main boss tank. Being able to hold threat and function as a better offtank would be really cool as that is perhaps the biggest issue for the protpallies out there and it would expand the game, while not hurting it in any way. There could be other talents that could be slightly modified in the prot tree but it seems way more risky to fiddle with and I wont suggest anything other than the threat issue and making a talent in the actual prot tree less useless.
Would appreciate some serious thought and discussion on this matter in a way to improve the game we love beyond the "vanilla is vanilla" and "no..." arguments. And the "if pally tank, make hunter/shaman able to tank too"-arguments are silly since they dont have a whole tree dedicated to that role. Prot pally is one of the least used trees in the game and it could be a good thing to make the game deeper.