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    TwinStar team

The Question of Naxxramas Difficulty Vol. 2

Which changes would you like to see for Naxxramas in the foreseeable future?

  • Re-introduce world buffs and remove Buffed Stats from monsters

    Votes: 73 21.0%
  • Re-introduce world buffs and keep Buffed Stats on monsters

    Votes: 20 5.8%
  • Don't re-introduce world buffs and remove Buffed Stats from monsters

    Votes: 91 26.2%
  • Keep it as it is at the moment

    Votes: 163 47.0%

  • Total voters
    347
  • Poll closed .

Bazzil

New Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Likes
182
#1
Back in August we asked for the Kronos community to give its thoughts on the difficulty of naxxramas. We presented various tuning-options and asked you to vote on which route you would prefer Kronos taking. Some of the options had to be voted on without full insight as to what the "buffed stats" for example would actually be, although some estimates were presented. You can read that topic here.

As a result of the poll we disabled world buffs upon zoning into the instance, and we buffed most monsters in the instance to ranging extents.

Feedback the last 3 weeks since the release have shown that some parts of the community wishes for the modifications be scaled down, or removed completely. At the same time, there are also many players who feel that the buffed stats makes the encounters more exciting and doesn't need to be removed or changed. This was the same feedback we received back in august: some want absolutely no modifications, others want as much as possible. The difference now is that you have the hands-on experience with the actual difficulty now.

To eliminate any remaining confusion, we present to you the full list of modifications to values that have been in effect since the release:

All trash monsters:
30% bonus to Health
15% bonus to auto-attack damage

Spider Wing encounters:
npc=15956 ::: Anub'Rekhan +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16698 ::: Corpse Scarab +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16573 ::: Crypt Guard +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
-
npc=15953 ::: Grand Widow Faerlina +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16505 ::: Naxxramas Follower +20% health
npc=16506 ::: Naxxramas Worshipper +20% auto-attack damage
-
npc=15952 ::: Maexxna +20% health
npc=17055 ::: Maexxna Spiderling +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16486 ::: Web Wrap (cocoon) +10% health

Abomination Wing encounters:
npc=16028 ::: Patchwerk +15% health
-
npc=15931 ::: Grobbulus +15% health
npc=16290 ::: Fallout Slime +20% health
-
npc=15932 ::: Gluth +20% health
npc=16360 ::: Zombie Chow +20% health
-
npc=15929 ::: Stalagg +20% health
npc=15930 ::: Feugen +20% health
npc=15928 ::: Thaddius +10% health

Plague Wing encounters:
npc=15954 ::: Noth the Plaguebringer +20% health +15% auto-attack damage
npc=16981 ::: Plagued Guardian (mages) +20% health
npc=16982 ::: Plagued Construct ("rattlegore"-looking mobs) +20% health
npc=16983 ::: Plagued Champion (strong skeletons) +20% health +20% auto-attack damage
npc=16984 ::: Plagued Warrior (weak skeletons) (no changes)
-
npc=15936 ::: Heigan the Unclean +20% health
npc=16236 ::: Eye Stalk (no changes)
npc=16056 ::: Diseased Maggot (no changes)
npc=16057 ::: Rotting Maggot (no changes)
-
npc=16011 ::: Loatheb +5% health

Deathknight Wing encounters:
npc=16061 ::: Instructor Razuvious +20% health
npc=16803 ::: Deathknight Understudy (no changes)
-
npc=16060 ::: Gothik the Harvester +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16124 ::: Unrelenting Trainee +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16125 ::: Unrelenting Deathknight +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16126 ::: Unrelenting Rider +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16127 ::: Spectral Trainee +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16148 ::: Spectral Deathknight +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16149 ::: Spectral Horse +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16150 ::: Spectral Rider +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
-
npc=16062 ::: Highlord Mograine +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16063 ::: Sir Zeliek +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16064 ::: Thane Korth'azz +20% health +10% auto-attack damage
npc=16065 ::: Lady Blaumeux +20% health +10% auto-attack damage

Frostwyrm Lair encounters:
npc=15989 ::: Sapphiron +20% health +20% ALL damage
-
npc=15990 ::: Kel'Thuzad +20% health +20% ALL damage
npc=16427 ::: Soldier of the Frozen Wastes +20% health +20% ALL damage
npc=16428 ::: Unstoppable Abomination +20% health +20% ALL damage
npc=16429 ::: Soul Weaver +20% health
npc=16441 ::: Guardian of Icecrown +20% health +20% ALL damage


We hope everyone is enjoying the instance and we look forward to the continous work of polishing it up for you guys. Encourage your guildmates to vote on the poll so as many opinions as possible can be taken into account.
 

nimeralos

Authorized
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Likes
321
Location
Moscow
#4
"Foreseeable future" is pretty ambiguous. Since the poll closes 25 November, I'd assume you mean to take some actions (or not) around this date. I voted "Keep it as it is at the moment", because there're still plenty of players who can and are willing to clear the buffed Naxx. In like 1-2 months, however, the situation may change.

Fei would disagree, but I think the current Naxx is the best possible Naxx for guilds that are currently 12-14/15. For the billionth time, thank you so much for it.
 

NotSachi

Authorized
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Likes
138
#5
rev up ur vpn's, onslaught

as nimeralos said, since u did not add a time frame, i voted "leave it as it is", though i do think world buffs should be re-enabled at some point while keeping the buffed state

then again, ur gonna get a vocal group (read: onslaught) trying to convince u otherwise

edit: oh yeah and buff gluth some more so we can yell at our shit mages, they totally deserve it for having to do something other than press 1 for the first time in all raid content
 
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Topmong

Authorized
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Likes
181
Location
Finland
#8
Perhaps a non-<ONSLAUGHT> member can speak for the other guilds, then?

Edit: No offense Ned, but the only complaints I've seen have came from either ONSLAUGHT members or that one discord troll who claims to be a shaman in Wipe Club.
 

Sandown

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Likes
6
#9
every week naxx is being nerfed by gear drops.
i would like to see world buffs added again at some point, however not yet. world buffs are a choice you can make, nerfed stats are not and nothing will ever reverse that.
 

Moriarty

New Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Likes
0
#10
Should remove the buffs to trash atleast. Most guilds dont have time to raid other content now because the trash in Naxx takes forever. The bosses dont need to be touched that much though. 4HM, Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad should not be easy fights.

I dont think you should add world buffs since it would punish "lesser" guilds who wipe from time to time and loose them. It would also make it so that mechanics can just be brute forced like in BWL and AQ, which I think nobody wants.
 

shard

Authorized
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Likes
121
#11
Have to say that I'm extremely disappointed that the staff are even considering making difficulty adjustment to Naxx. In the several weeks since Naxx was released, I have experienced an overwhelming amount of positive feedback both from my own guild, and from others that I've talked who all say that they are currently having a blast in Naxx, and are really happy that they no longer have to go through the weekly ritual of logging on an hour before raids to get all their world buffs. Please, please, please, don't ruin the good thing we currently have going!

If there is anyone complaining about difficulty, then they are full of shit, plain and simple. The majority of the bosses up until Sapphiron are already much easier than they should be, and any "adjustments," whether they be hp nerfs or the re-introduction of world buffs, will make them, AND Sapphiron and KT, a complete fucking joke. I've watched streams of self-admitted "casual" guilds one or two shotting Loatheb their first time seeing it, killing Noth and Heigan before a second phase change, killing Faerlina with only one Worshipper being sacrificed, killing Thaddius with half their raid dead to Polarity fails, etc etc etc. This doesn't only apply for the five or so guilds who try harder than everyone else. No, up until Sapphiron, KRONOS NAXX IS TOO EASY--for everyone. And you're considering making it easier? Really?

If you do anything, disclose the custom changes you made to boss hp and damage, so ONSLAUGHT can see that its their own "brute force everything with tunnel visioning fury warriors" mentality that is to blame for their failure, and not an insignificant 5% hp buff. Like Topmong said, it seems like the only complaints about Naxx being too hard are coming from ONSLAUGHT. Most other people seem to agree that the opposite is actually true--that a lot of the bosses are too easy.

This is exactly the sort of knee-jerk reaction I implored you to avoid. Really disappointed right now...
 
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Slippy

New Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Likes
87
#13
Leave world buffs for a while yet. Tanks will die on trash and threat cap the raid, anyway.

Speaking of trash. Return it to normal values. It feels buggy because some monsters will just randomly one-shot. You'll look what happened on the combat log and it's like 5 huge hits in under a second or something. Don't see why you'd buff trash anyway. Trash is not the fun part of raiding.

Sapphiron's melee could stand a nerf imo. And he should not have an enormous, Kronos Ony like Tail Swipe either. Wtf is that? You can watch retail Sapphiron kills where they are sitting on his tail melee'ing for most of the fight without getting swiped. Here you get knocked anywhere close to his back legs. The area to get swiped by him was extremely small (if it even existed at all). If you don't want to nerf his damage at least do something about his tail.
 

Chainsaw

Authorized
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Likes
135
#14
Has anyone other than <ONSLAUGHT> complained about the Naxxramas difficulty?
I think it will break many guilds if kt and sapph will stay that strong. The rest of the bosses I find kinda killable and trash, too if you have the right tactics.
 

Lildyo

Authorized
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Likes
59
Location
Ontario, Canada
#15
Yeah, personally I voted to remove the Naxx buffs and re-introduce world buffs. However, I'd prefer the buffs would be reverted in the next few weeks and then the world buffs reintroduced some time after that--not necessarily at the same time.
 

roarnstuff

New Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Likes
19
#16
It's been so nice not having to do all the shit associated with world buffs. Why would you want that back? I mean bring it back eventually but give me a few more weeks of not having to spend an hour and a half fucking around for a 40 minute raid. Or spend an entire week camping the stupid DMF guy.

You really want that back already?



Edit: Oh yeah. I do agree that the trash buff needs to go.
 
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eljay

Authorized
Joined
May 25, 2015
Likes
47
#18
I would agree with people saying that it is only onslaught, however if you look at it from a realistic point of view and not your biased view like a fucking mong. You will realize (at least NA guilds) are having trouble forming a 3rd raid day in order to continue progressing through naxx. Synced is fucking dead lets be real last raid was 32 players? lol. You shard had to ask NLT to help fill your 3rd raid day and we also had to ask players from your guild to help fill (dude and seeing NLT players do top 5 dps in your raid is also nice means you suck dick no amount of bought characters can save you from this).

So Onslaught players have made very good point when they say they came here to have "blizzlike values" like Kronos dev said they would do. Onslaught does not have the luxury of having other guilds help them fill like NA alliance do so I hope you guys can fucking see why they are upset with this shit. I personally can't keep up with the consumes anymore because irl semester finishing up and ran out of consumes irl (sure this is a personal issue but if im having trouble id imagine other people are having a similar issue).

I do enjoy naxx how it is, I think it is a blast but thats only when I have the luxury of going through consumes, I don't feel like being dead weight in the guild at the moment therefor I have to take a break. I have heard consumable prices are going down and such but initial naxx release I bought a stack of plaguebloom for 109 gold and wanted to kms. Some people say the hardest thing about vanilla wow is getting 40 people together in order to raid. Right now I have heard/seen almost all guilds having this problem. If I was rich in game I don't think it'd be that much of an issue but I'm not, I got rl shit to focus on for once that I normally can put to the side but with shadow pots and other mats costing a fortune cba to even try and balance it out. With that being said I don't believe naxx (bosses at least) should be set back to original but from other posts trash packs should get back to blizzlike value at least.

If we get world buffs back into Naxx we will never have the funny meme dances where someone dies because it will be dead before the dance phase. If world buffs are introduced back in naxx it will cause players to try their best not to die on the buffed trash so they can look sick on meters on bosses. Not having to deal with world buffs is nice imo. Having to deal with overpriced consumes just sucks. And yeah some risen members bring up having more gear nerfs the instance however your tank is pretty much fucking bis, and dies to heigan lmfao as full protection spec. Which then brings up the point where some other players talk about "your strat sucks", yeah they probably do.

This is fixable however, this takes time to fix and by that point players have either quit or taken a break from the game or rage quit cause they realized they actually suck at the game which can be hard on some people cause they are little bitches lets be real. So then we take a look at the more "casual guilds" if you want to put it that way. Irae, Control, Obsolete, Lost in sauce, out of these guilds the top is 6/15 naxx even with some of these guilds having 3 raid days. Let's be realistic this wont go on for, forever other guilds id imagine are waiting for them to crumble in order to absorb the decent players they have there and wanting more in Naxx.

Right now how I see the server is battle of attrition whichever guild is left standing will get players from the guilds that will die and I'm sure Shard is banking on this bullshit that's why he is defending this shit. And It's so funny because your guild practiced on PTR and still decided to shit the bed and yet you defend this shit, seriously quit being retarded as fuck and look at it from a server point of view.
 
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FREEinsec

New Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Likes
3
#20
Don't know if my actual forum acc is banned again or what but it won't let me access the forums, anyway.

Nerfing the trash a bit would alleviate and free up a LOT of time. With guilds short on raid time you can even pre-clear trash easier so when your full 40man is on you get straight to business. Return the values of trash back to normal and you'll see guilds will have a TON of more time to practice/down bosses and fit their 2-day raiding schedule that most Kronos guilds have.

IMO, there should be an added option of "Return Trash to normal values, but keep everything else the same". Most of the guilds I've seen in Naxx are more than capable of killing these bosses it just comes down to practice and execution. A mage unable to kite a few mobs on Gluth is a perfect example of this. Gluth shouldn't be nerfed because Gnomefapper suffers from Down Syndrome.

We walked into Naxx full BiS, challenging encounters is what makes it somewhat interesting. Spending more than half your time on trash really isn't. The only true out-of-scale(not necessarily hard to deal with) buff Naxx has is KT's 4k frostbolt imo, but that's the final boss. Everything else as seen above, has been 10-20% buffs to counter-act the 1year+ of gear people have accumulated.

Obviously, you'd have to remake the poll to consider this option because there's already a bunch of people locked to the above options.

Consider it.
 

RedWinston

New Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Likes
2
#21
although i was first against buffed content but the naxx experience thus far has been very enjoyable and is actually a challenge for us lesser prepared guilds.. meaning we actually have to work out our stratgegies instead of mowing everything down.

the 1-2 hours of not preparing world buffs is a blessing ontop of everyone beeing equal to have more competition amongst classes.
 

Darkward

New Member
Joined
May 31, 2016
Likes
2
#22
"I would agree with people saying that it is only onslaught, however if you look at it from a realistic point of view and not your biased view like a fucking mong. You will realize (at least NA guilds) are having trouble forming a 3rd raid day in order to continue progressing through naxx. Synced is fucking dead lets be real last raid was 32 players? lol. You shard had to ask NLT to help fill your 3rd raid day and we also had to ask players from your guild to help fill (dude and seeing NLT players do top 5 dps in your raid is also nice means you suck dick no amount of bought characters can save you from this).

So Onslaught players have made very good point when they say they came here to have "blizzlike values" like Kronos dev said they would do. Onslaught does not have the luxury of having other guilds help them fill like NA alliance do so I hope you guys can fucking see why they are upset with this shit. I personally can't keep up with the consumes anymore because irl semester finishing up and ran out of consumes irl (sure this is a personal issue but if im having trouble id imagine other people are having a similar issue).

I do enjoy naxx how it is, I think it is a blast but thats only when I have the luxury of going through consumes, I don't feel like being dead weight in the guild at the moment therefor I have to take a break. I have heard consumable prices are going down and such but initial naxx release I bought a stack of plaguebloom for 109 gold and wanted to kms. Some people say the hardest thing about vanilla wow is getting 40 people together in order to raid. Right now I have heard/seen almost all guilds having this problem. If I was rich in game I don't think it'd be that much of an issue but I'm not, I got rl shit to focus on for once that I normally can put to the side but with shadow pots and other mats costing a fortune cba to even try and balance it out. With that being said I don't believe naxx (bosses at least) should be set back to original but from other posts trash packs should get back to blizzlike value at least.

If we get world buffs back into Naxx we will never have the funny meme dances where someone dies because it will be dead before the dance phase. If world buffs are introduced back in naxx it will cause players to try their best not to die on the buffed trash so they can look sick on meters on bosses. Not having to deal with world buffs is nice imo. Having to deal with overpriced consumes just sucks. And yeah some risen members bring up having more gear nerfs the instance however your tank is pretty much fucking bis, and dies to heigan lmfao as full protection spec. Which then brings up the point where some other players talk about "your strat sucks", yeah they probably do.

This is fixable however, this takes time to fix and by that point players have either quit or taken a break from the game or rage quit cause they realized they actually suck at the game which can be hard on some people cause they are little bitches lets be real. So then we take a look at the more "casual guilds" if you want to put it that way. Irae, Control, Obsolete, Lost in sauce, out of these guilds the top is 6/15 naxx even with some of these guilds having 3 raid days. Let's be realistic this wont go on for, forever other guilds id imagine are waiting for them to crumble in order to absorb the decent players they have there and wanting more in Naxx.

Right now how I see the server is battle of attrition whichever guild is left standing will get players from the guilds that will die and I'm sure Shard is banking on this bullshit that's why he is defending this shit. And It's so funny because your guild practiced on PTR and still decided to shit the bed and yet you defend this shit, seriously quit being retarded as fuck and look at it from a server point of view."
 

Vashinkt

Authorized
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Likes
58
#23
I'm fine with just keeping boss health buffed and introducing world buffs at a later date.

no need for bosses/trash to hit harder then blizzlike imo, let the mechanics you scripted do the wiping.
 

theruas

Authorized
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Likes
6
#24
Worldbuffs only for DMF weeks with 10% everytime for speed records, apart from that let it be. People will catch up with gear soon enough. Our maintank takes 0 damage outside of Naxx.

I myself play on a different vanilla server as well and we are in full epic FR gear, Sapph is a fucking joke with blizzlike stats.

However, I understand people like Fei and the rest of Onslaught that they were promised a blizzlike experience. I guess asking the community in the first place is never a good idea.
 

mooble

Authorized
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Likes
5
#25
I said this to the devs the day after opening weekend. 2 weeks later I feel just as strongly about this opinion. Please just remove this...

"All trash monsters:
30% bonus to Health
15% bonus to auto-attack damage"

Then leave the bosses as they are, a challenge.

Losing people to trash pulls is the biggest timewaste and burnout in Naxx currently, it's ANTI-FUN, a shit symptom of the changes. At some point the cost of just being inside of Naxx with consumes up is way to enormous for the average player, so people don't even pop consumes knowing on some trash pack they're going to die regardless, and this extends itself to boss pulls too. If you stack up the difficulty between a boss versus all the pulls before that boss, it isn't even close for most of the instance. For example, how many opportunities come up where you need to pop a lifesaving cooldown (class spell, potion, cleanse etc) for the Spiderwing bosses? A handful maybe. Compare that to all the trash encounters in that wing and shit that can go wrong, you might pop 5x the consumes you did on bosses to stay alive throughout the whole wing. And it shouldn't be this way, the boss should inherently be the thing you fear. The thing you're dumping your gold on. The thing you're saving your best cooldowns for.

So ya, I really enjoy current Naxx bosses but think the trash stinks. I can see the argument for people wanting their tuning to be brought down, but it's really refreshing to finally have to be progressing on this server, for mechanics to be challenging enough that every role has to be accountable on any given raid night and no one can be coasting. It feels exponentially more blizzlike than the AQ40 release ever did, and it's finally not boring to raid. But the populations gonna crash at some point if you leave all the trash pulls so difficult that reliably living through them is practically impossible. Takes too long to clear this instance, costs the player too much gold in consumes/repairs (and in turn, a daunting time investment to resupply), and makes the bosspulls less enjoyable because you're overall less willing to pop anything and push the meters (and I don't really know a lot of people here that don't have that competitive drive while playing, this strips all those people of one of the biggest reasons they raid).
 
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