The Question of Naxxramas Difficulty Vol. 2
- Thread starter Bazzil
- Start date
in terms of raid balancing here's my take on it:
* Fix fucking Sapphiron, his Air Phase is ridiculously bad scripted. Let him do 5 blocks first and with the fifth block here comes down the big bomb. Just watch retail vids and see how clean the phase should look like. I almost doubt his airphase is fucked up on purpose, cause it's really bad encounter designing if you made it like that deliberately.
Also, his Blizzard during ground phase does nothing, cause it appears in the middle of fucking nowhere, so people can completly stack up during ground phase and not worry about the Blizzard.
* KT, his increased Frost Bolt Volley damage HURTS Horde. Alliance can cope with that quite easily cause BoK etc. Hordes don't have kings, so they have to survive that with way less Hp which makes it problematic for them. Get that Volley Blizzlike and KT is fine.
Apart from that, i'd even buff the HP on some bosses.
Specially for:
Maexxna, full raids completely skip the 'main' mechanic of this fight which was supposed to make the fight tough, which is: to get the Tank surviving the Webwrap while she's enraged.
Atm even without world buffs, raids can nuke her down in between web wraps all the way from 30% to 0.
So Maexxna can easily use a 30%-50% HP increase. Just for raids to actually having to do some proper cooldown usage, the way Blizzard intended it.
Noth: Full raids easily kill him with only 1 Balcony phase. As soon as world buffs would be introduced, he'll be dead before ANY balcony phase most of the time. having less than 2 balcony phases poses no threat to a raid whatsoever, unless you're under-manned.
So noth can use a 30%-50% HP increase, aswell.
Same goes for Heigan: let the people dance a little more.
* Fix fucking Sapphiron, his Air Phase is ridiculously bad scripted. Let him do 5 blocks first and with the fifth block here comes down the big bomb. Just watch retail vids and see how clean the phase should look like. I almost doubt his airphase is fucked up on purpose, cause it's really bad encounter designing if you made it like that deliberately.
Also, his Blizzard during ground phase does nothing, cause it appears in the middle of fucking nowhere, so people can completly stack up during ground phase and not worry about the Blizzard.
* KT, his increased Frost Bolt Volley damage HURTS Horde. Alliance can cope with that quite easily cause BoK etc. Hordes don't have kings, so they have to survive that with way less Hp which makes it problematic for them. Get that Volley Blizzlike and KT is fine.
Apart from that, i'd even buff the HP on some bosses.
Specially for:
Maexxna, full raids completely skip the 'main' mechanic of this fight which was supposed to make the fight tough, which is: to get the Tank surviving the Webwrap while she's enraged.
Atm even without world buffs, raids can nuke her down in between web wraps all the way from 30% to 0.
So Maexxna can easily use a 30%-50% HP increase. Just for raids to actually having to do some proper cooldown usage, the way Blizzard intended it.
Noth: Full raids easily kill him with only 1 Balcony phase. As soon as world buffs would be introduced, he'll be dead before ANY balcony phase most of the time. having less than 2 balcony phases poses no threat to a raid whatsoever, unless you're under-manned.
So noth can use a 30%-50% HP increase, aswell.
Same goes for Heigan: let the people dance a little more.
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I'm not going to quote the wall of text you posted Eljay but regarding tanks dying on Heigan, check out https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?spell=29998
It's not a gear/spec issue. It's healers not using the tissue between their ears and dispelling that debuff instantly.
It's not a gear/spec issue. It's healers not using the tissue between their ears and dispelling that debuff instantly.
Cilvaringz
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fenix 2.0
Losse
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I voted "Keep it as it is at the moment". Although removing the buffed trash stats is also a good suggestion. This would lessen the consumable requirement for all guilds, lessen the time needed to clear the dungeon and increase the time guilds can spend on progressing the bosses.
what guild are you even in. Every guild I know on this server has seen a fair amount of wipes on multiple bosses. that's a caveat of 40man raiding.
Anyways none of that matters, I don't think there's a single person here who would disagree with reverting trash back to normal values. pce
Anyways none of that matters, I don't think there's a single person here who would disagree with reverting trash back to normal values. pce
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Our tanked died because they ignored the main mechanic of the fight called decrepit fever which halves your HP. Our tank died because healers ignored mechanics. A tank no matter how well geared is going to die when his max Hp is 4K for the entire fight. Also Risen didn’t practice on a PTR Naxx sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I’m fine with constructive criticism but you’re just shitting on Risen here. Even though I’ve personally already spent 8+ hours helping your guild clear content. Maybe next time I shouldn’t if this is the response we get. That your better than us when you help us and when we help you you’re still better than us.
I’m fine with constructive criticism but you’re just shitting on Risen here. Even though I’ve personally already spent 8+ hours helping your guild clear content. Maybe next time I shouldn’t if this is the response we get. That your better than us when you help us and when we help you you’re still better than us.
eljay
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It's more directed at shard. I pointed out how NA raiding guilds are having trouble getting a 3rd raid day. I thanked you guys for coming and such. But shard still defending this shit when your guild cant even fill raids is just stupid. And I made the point about mechanics, from what I have seen you guys are losing players and yet your leader wants to continue this fight for attrition. If you want to defend that thats cool, I do feel the points I made are valid though. And I meant that you guys spent time practicing on Kronos Ptr, more time than most guilds.
@eljay I actually like NLT and have friends in that guild so I have nothing to say against them. There's quite a few of us who have helped with their raids and vice-versa. Including Shard. I even offered to come last night when you guys were missing 10+ people but I don't think Vancocin has a liking towards boomkins.
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eljay
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- May 25, 2015
No I understand and I'm sorry if I offended some you guys, but I still felt it was necessary to say. Just so more people can see a different point of view. No one can deny the fact that guilds are having trouble filling all of sudden. And it also brings us back to the point how the NA alliance scene gets help to fill raids, unlike the horde NA scene where they are struggling to fill. I myself can see their point of view while most others (and to be honest it seems a lot from your guild or just shard) fail to see this.
They want buff them even more? Fine.
They want to make it blizzlike? Fine.
They want to make it even easier than blizzlike? Fine
I really don’t care and I’m speaking only for myself. My guild on the hand yes they want to keep as is.
If horde guilds collectively are having a problem they should be able to come together and all talk to a GM and have something fixed like Vanguard did with KT. They didn’t even need a poll to delay hotfixed until Wednesday. Maybe horde can get the same treatment
The population problem was inevitable even with a blizzlike Naxx. And I blame kronos staff for this they are fine with this pop when it’s really not healthy. When the whole elysium drama happened instead helping recruit people back you have GMs memeing instead in world chat.
They want to make it blizzlike? Fine.
They want to make it even easier than blizzlike? Fine
I really don’t care and I’m speaking only for myself. My guild on the hand yes they want to keep as is.
If horde guilds collectively are having a problem they should be able to come together and all talk to a GM and have something fixed like Vanguard did with KT. They didn’t even need a poll to delay hotfixed until Wednesday. Maybe horde can get the same treatment
The population problem was inevitable even with a blizzlike Naxx. And I blame kronos staff for this they are fine with this pop when it’s really not healthy. When the whole elysium drama happened instead helping recruit people back you have GMs memeing instead in world chat.
Retail vanilla progress:
The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006 (Gothik the Harvester - 10 days from Instructor Razuvious' death. 30th June 2006)
NLT kronos progress:
The Four Horsemen - 2 hours from explaining the fight to entire raid, some of whom clearly knew zero of the mechanics.
Ya, the bosses must be vastly overtuned and the NA scene is massively struggling because of it. Definitely has absolutely nothing to do with how long the wait was between AQ and Naxx release.... Get fucking real Eljay. The population problem isn't a symptom of challenging boss fights, if they nerf the whole place today we're still going to have nights with only 35 available, that's just the norm of a private server's cycle. You got your shit twisted bro and it sucks hearing you talk mad shit after spending free time helping y'all because I wanted to see you guys clear the content too.
The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006 (Gothik the Harvester - 10 days from Instructor Razuvious' death. 30th June 2006)
NLT kronos progress:
The Four Horsemen - 2 hours from explaining the fight to entire raid, some of whom clearly knew zero of the mechanics.
Ya, the bosses must be vastly overtuned and the NA scene is massively struggling because of it. Definitely has absolutely nothing to do with how long the wait was between AQ and Naxx release.... Get fucking real Eljay. The population problem isn't a symptom of challenging boss fights, if they nerf the whole place today we're still going to have nights with only 35 available, that's just the norm of a private server's cycle. You got your shit twisted bro and it sucks hearing you talk mad shit after spending free time helping y'all because I wanted to see you guys clear the content too.
These polls on the forum are the worst idea. This shouldn't be a democracy. Make up your minds and stick to it. This waffling is killing my ability to plan to do anything. No direction, no leadership. Embarrassing.
@Shard (and everyone else posting/voting to keep as is), enjoy your empty server. The minority voices (aka the hardcore who care enough to figure out how to post on the forum and access the poll at all) will win out no doubt. Just sad.
@Shard (and everyone else posting/voting to keep as is), enjoy your empty server. The minority voices (aka the hardcore who care enough to figure out how to post on the forum and access the poll at all) will win out no doubt. Just sad.
I think a fair compromise would be to revert the trash mob buffs, and then up the hp of some of the bosses that we all agree are way too easy at the moment (and will only get easier as we get more T3 gear). But please leave world buffs out permamently, or like Theruas suggested, only allow them for one week per month (DMF).
@HBK
I believe you are wrong about Sapphiron Iceblocks and Ice Bomb. It feels wrong of course, because it adds a certain rng element when everyone is stacking up behind a block and then one of those people gets turned into the 5th and final Iceblock, but I believe that is blizzlike. if you watch Curse's first kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7xktwZNL9E you can see starting at around 3:00 that the 5th and final Iceblock appears roughly 1-2 seconds into the cast of Ice Bomb (their raid warning doesn't have a timer bar, only announces the beginning of the cast), which is exactly how it works on Kronos at the moment.
I do agree with you about the behavior of Blizzard though. Seems much less random and not at all dangerous compared to how it felt back in retail.
@HBK
I believe you are wrong about Sapphiron Iceblocks and Ice Bomb. It feels wrong of course, because it adds a certain rng element when everyone is stacking up behind a block and then one of those people gets turned into the 5th and final Iceblock, but I believe that is blizzlike. if you watch Curse's first kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7xktwZNL9E you can see starting at around 3:00 that the 5th and final Iceblock appears roughly 1-2 seconds into the cast of Ice Bomb (their raid warning doesn't have a timer bar, only announces the beginning of the cast), which is exactly how it works on Kronos at the moment.
I do agree with you about the behavior of Blizzard though. Seems much less random and not at all dangerous compared to how it felt back in retail.
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Having world buffs for DMF, and/or for a limited time is a really stupid idea. Dps shooting for records might as well stay logged off until the next DMF/World Buff week. No motivation to beat the record you set last week.
On the other thread I predicted the current burnout. Buffed content in Vanilla = More time needed to farm consumables. If a raid has done everything right then they deserve to get the kill. The limiting factor shouldn't be how many resistance pots, or flasks they have. It's not fun and not sustainable for a long period.
On the other thread I predicted the current burnout. Buffed content in Vanilla = More time needed to farm consumables. If a raid has done everything right then they deserve to get the kill. The limiting factor shouldn't be how many resistance pots, or flasks they have. It's not fun and not sustainable for a long period.
Everyone has their own personal preferences when it comes to what they want to see. Finding a general consensus is always a difficult thing when you're dealing with a large population of people. So far, the results of this poll is a good example of this. It's impossible to make everyone happy, and no matter what option gets chosen there is always going to be a segment of the population who is vocally upset. So for those players who are quick to criticize the decisions that projects (whether us, or others) make, please use this as a learning opportunity to understand that nothing is ever as "clear cut" or "simple" as you may seem to believe it should be.
bl4ckc0d3r
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Yes.
Probably not going to have the patience to keep farming to have full consums on everything for overtuned content for a lot longer. was kinda fun progressing aside from the completely broken shit. all of it is definately killable even on horde, but it wont be enjoyable to farm in this current state.
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voidzone
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- May 3, 2015
I feel there should be a distinction between bosses and trash here, trash imo can be nerfed back to blizzlike values tomorrow. For bosses though seems too early to tell still, most lack tier3 (our paladins for example have 0 or 1 piece still) and like Sandown said earlier, 'nerfs' naxx weekly in itself. But I don't see a reason of prolonging raids by having an increase in trash HP and having all guilds struggle to fit it all in their shedule, Patchwerk takes ages to reach at this point. Other than Sapphirons auto attack damage (the aura _is_ the mechanic, and that buff alone is enough) I wouldn't decrease any damage/HP of a boss at this moment in time, and see where we're at in a month or two, when people actually gear up.
Guilds will die and merge after Naxx anyway, it's the inevitability of endgame content being finished. I don't feel like you can use the fact of people quitting as an argument Naxx is buffed too much, those people would quit in any case. But that isn't to say you should ignore all guilds being in trouble completely, with this population and lack of influx it's not really easy to say just 'deal with it', nerfing trash is surely good direction to take at this point, much more so than re-implementing worldbuffs, I think there's not many people that really liked that playstyle or being 'reliant' on them, and all the toxicity that they brought during raids of not wanting to lose them.
Nerfing trash should be the immediate step, and respond to what happens then later, with either bringing bosses HP back to normal or not doing anything if it turns out t3 makes a difference.
Guilds will die and merge after Naxx anyway, it's the inevitability of endgame content being finished. I don't feel like you can use the fact of people quitting as an argument Naxx is buffed too much, those people would quit in any case. But that isn't to say you should ignore all guilds being in trouble completely, with this population and lack of influx it's not really easy to say just 'deal with it', nerfing trash is surely good direction to take at this point, much more so than re-implementing worldbuffs, I think there's not many people that really liked that playstyle or being 'reliant' on them, and all the toxicity that they brought during raids of not wanting to lose them.
Nerfing trash should be the immediate step, and respond to what happens then later, with either bringing bosses HP back to normal or not doing anything if it turns out t3 makes a difference.
Lildyo
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seems like we're pretty unanimous about nerfing trash at the very least