That's part of the point we are trying to make. If it was only a handful of accounts (a minority such that exsited with a subscription model) then there wouldn't be a problem. The problem arises from when you, your guild mates, your friends guild and their mates, and your aunt Matilda all have 3+ accounts with most of the toons being lock summon alts. When that minority starts to become the norm (which blizz likely never envisioned happening with a pay wall) then there's a problem. That's where Kronos is at at the moment.
Information Warlock Summoning
- Thread starter Chero
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Trying to be "Hardcore" raiding guild means doing something that the others, "normals", are not ready to do. If your guild wasn't up for the challenge of leveling enough summon alts to get a world boss kill, at least you found a way to compensate by continuously whining on forums how "unfair" summoning alts where. I hope you feel happy now from your achievement and from the fact that for the first time you and your guild might have a change to kill a world boss and that you can call yourself HC raid guild now! Gratz!
The biggest issue with all of this is the lack of warning and the fact that it doesn't seem like the dev team is being up front about this.
Why are all the arguments allusions to vaguely defined problems? If people abusing the number of accounts available is the issue, then why doesn't the so-called solution touch on accounts in any way, and if not, why is that even mentioned? What are these "designed game mechanics" that are being skipped? Is it flight time as people have mentioned? How is this in any way an issue? What the actual f*** is the problem here? Pandemic abuse? Abuse of what? This has in no way been made clear!
And why is the so-called solution not explained?
Why the f*** does this question have to even be asked?
"low level 20 warlocks are no longer able to summon high level characters" is in no way a sufficient explanation of what's been changed, nor does it actually make sense.
What are the motives here? What actually caused this change?
I'm not saying that this is actually the case, but seeing as no other sensible explanation is forthcoming, it seems like I'm being led to conclude that the devs are changing the rules of the game for some purpose of their own... and seeing as we are asked to "Keep in mind that some of us [devs] are also players here on the server" the immideate conclusions are rather disconcerting.
I do not like the way this is being handled, and i dont like playing in an environment where the rules by which we all play can change overnight with no warning and no sensible explanation given afterwards. I need to know that the effort i put into the game isn't retroactively made irrelevant on the whim of someone who won't explain himself to me.
Why are all the arguments allusions to vaguely defined problems? If people abusing the number of accounts available is the issue, then why doesn't the so-called solution touch on accounts in any way, and if not, why is that even mentioned? What are these "designed game mechanics" that are being skipped? Is it flight time as people have mentioned? How is this in any way an issue? What the actual f*** is the problem here? Pandemic abuse? Abuse of what? This has in no way been made clear!
And why is the so-called solution not explained?
Why the f*** does this question have to even be asked?
"low level 20 warlocks are no longer able to summon high level characters" is in no way a sufficient explanation of what's been changed, nor does it actually make sense.
What are the motives here? What actually caused this change?
I'm not saying that this is actually the case, but seeing as no other sensible explanation is forthcoming, it seems like I'm being led to conclude that the devs are changing the rules of the game for some purpose of their own... and seeing as we are asked to "Keep in mind that some of us [devs] are also players here on the server" the immideate conclusions are rather disconcerting.
I do not like the way this is being handled, and i dont like playing in an environment where the rules by which we all play can change overnight with no warning and no sensible explanation given afterwards. I need to know that the effort i put into the game isn't retroactively made irrelevant on the whim of someone who won't explain himself to me.
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As it is uptil now, the situation really is a bad joke... And it's good it was changed. Blizzlike is definitely not what was done atm with gazillions of summoning alt.
You guys say you are hardcore, then show you are hardcore, ergo level your fucking lowlevel crapalts to 60 and no one will complain. Then you showed the maximum effort and nobody will say anything cause you deserve it.
Not by levelling alts to the least required level and then do the shit you are doing right now
You guys say you are hardcore, then show you are hardcore, ergo level your fucking lowlevel crapalts to 60 and no one will complain. Then you showed the maximum effort and nobody will say anything cause you deserve it.
Not by levelling alts to the least required level and then do the shit you are doing right now
As it is uptil now, the situation really is a bad joke... And it's good it was changed. Blizzlike is definitely not what was done atm with gazillions of summoning alt.
You guys say you are hardcore, then show you are hardcore, ergo level your fucking lowlevel crapalts to 60 and no one will complain. Then you showed the maximum effort and nobody will say anything cause you deserve it.
Not by levelling alts to the least required level and then do the shit you are doing right now
You guys say you are hardcore, then show you are hardcore, ergo level your fucking lowlevel crapalts to 60 and no one will complain. Then you showed the maximum effort and nobody will say anything cause you deserve it.
Not by levelling alts to the least required level and then do the shit you are doing right now
Now they want us to level it to 45, before that gets banned.
Then when the alts are 60, they will ban having level 1 clickers.
While I understand your concern, there are three major problems with your argument:
1) You assume you know how Blizzard intended for things to be. As far as I see it, the fact that only a few people could afford to pay for the multiple accounts required for summoning alts is kind of pay to win, and bliz was completely ok with it. If anything, the situation here is far better because it means anyone who puts in the work can obtain that advantage.
2) You're literally the only private server to uphold such a rule. I played on ED from it's release, where everyone and their aunt Matilda had a summoning alt, and it was never a problem. I also played on Valkyrie and, like ED, was never an issue. Why is it suddenly an issue to you?
3) Saying it's not blizzlike, yet releasing Earthstrike and D2 wayyyyy before they're supposed to be obtained is not Blizzlike, but you still did it. Tad hypocritical don't you think?
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4) How do you intent to compensate the players who put in days of work to level these alts? If you don't, what guarantee do we have that you won't retroactively decide in the future to ruin days, weeks, or months of work because you suddenly feel like it gives some players some selective advantage?
1) You assume you know how Blizzard intended for things to be. As far as I see it, the fact that only a few people could afford to pay for the multiple accounts required for summoning alts is kind of pay to win, and bliz was completely ok with it. If anything, the situation here is far better because it means anyone who puts in the work can obtain that advantage.
2) You're literally the only private server to uphold such a rule. I played on ED from it's release, where everyone and their aunt Matilda had a summoning alt, and it was never a problem. I also played on Valkyrie and, like ED, was never an issue. Why is it suddenly an issue to you?
3) Saying it's not blizzlike, yet releasing Earthstrike and D2 wayyyyy before they're supposed to be obtained is not Blizzlike, but you still did it. Tad hypocritical don't you think?
EDIT:
4) How do you intent to compensate the players who put in days of work to level these alts? If you don't, what guarantee do we have that you won't retroactively decide in the future to ruin days, weeks, or months of work because you suddenly feel like it gives some players some selective advantage?
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I afk level five warlocks at a time to 20 please don't punish me for being hardcore and trying. I sit in Ironforge on a cart while my level 1 character is in Azshara looking for a dragon to spawn, please stop punishing me for trying!
In all seriousness, thanks for coming to a decision about this dumb shit.
In all seriousness, thanks for coming to a decision about this dumb shit.
Coming from someone who used to have a warlock in mostly every zone. It completely takes the adventure out of the game. That being said people put in a lot of effort on these characters, leveling to 20 on multiple is really boring and takes time. If multiple accounts with warlocks is not blizzlike because no one could afford those subscriptions as you had to pay, then why not make it that you have to level warlocks on your main account? Meaning other's warlock have to assist you with clicking. What's the issue there? // EDIT Chero: How? ^^
Personally I'm okay with this decision because it makes people fly and mount / log off at zone to get their world boss kill, along with others, but yeah I get why people are upset.
Personally I'm okay with this decision because it makes people fly and mount / log off at zone to get their world boss kill, along with others, but yeah I get why people are upset.
Kevvax, I don't realy think there is any problem with leveling with this restriction. You can still summon people that are 15 levels higher than you currently are. How many times will you do dungeon with group where people are higher than 15 levels from your own level?
All these butt-hurts crying here, it's just ridiculous - that's my opinion.
All these butt-hurts crying here, it's just ridiculous - that's my opinion.
"Things become ilegal when they become popular."
It's the same as with multiboxing. It was fine on retail, because you needed to pay multiple accs or have friends, that would borrow you their acc to be able to multibox (have summoning alts). And as multiboxing, summoning alts became "too popular" due to lack of payment for accs. The only difference is, that people mostly don't like multiboxing and so they forced an rule that forbids it while people don't care about summoning alts and so nobody bothered with it... Until now.
I'm from one of the top pve guilds on the alliance and we were told, that everyone should make summoning alts to DM, Sili, STV, SW and Felwood to quickly gather buffs. In other words, our guild should make around 900 characters just for summoning. That is something, that was not presend back in the days.
It's the same as with multiboxing. It was fine on retail, because you needed to pay multiple accs or have friends, that would borrow you their acc to be able to multibox (have summoning alts). And as multiboxing, summoning alts became "too popular" due to lack of payment for accs. The only difference is, that people mostly don't like multiboxing and so they forced an rule that forbids it while people don't care about summoning alts and so nobody bothered with it... Until now.
I'm from one of the top pve guilds on the alliance and we were told, that everyone should make summoning alts to DM, Sili, STV, SW and Felwood to quickly gather buffs. In other words, our guild should make around 900 characters just for summoning. That is something, that was not presend back in the days.
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Kevvax, I don't realy think there is any problem with leveling with this restriction. You can still summon people that are 15 levels higher than you currently are. How many times will you do dungeon with group where people are higher than 15 levels from your own level?
All these butt-hurts crying here, it's just ridiculous - that's my opinion.
All these butt-hurts crying here, it's just ridiculous - that's my opinion.
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What can I say, Chero. You just decided to alienate your few hardcore guilds and remove highly competitive raiding from Kronos. Which you should have btw been proud of when you inspect pages such as http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/RaidList.aspx?realm=All . Warlock summoning alts were big part of this. You know, when Vanguard was deciding whether to come to Kronos or go to Nostalrius, summoning alts on multiple accounts being perfectly allowed here was what made us join Kronos. Then we went on to increase its reputation in terms of PvE achievements (refer back to the RaidStats page I linked above). And now you can imagine how betrayed we feel.
A minute of silence for hardcore raiding on Kronos, please.
@Fei: AFK leveling became a thing in our guild maybe 5 days ago with only a single person having actually done it to level 20. All other warlocks (basically, all warlocks) were leveled by active playing before that.
A minute of silence for hardcore raiding on Kronos, please.
@Fei: AFK leveling became a thing in our guild maybe 5 days ago with only a single person having actually done it to level 20. All other warlocks (basically, all warlocks) were leveled by active playing before that.
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