Will there be a realm without forced pvp?

Drinkingbear said:

I played for awhile on another server cough"Failnix" and as soon as you left your starting area it was automatic pvp enabled. Like the post says I was wondering if there will be a realm for adventuring and questing without worrying about some db ganking you for the hell of it. I enjoyed the huge pvp battles back in Hillsbrad but I'd like to flag myself if I want to join and not be forced. Thanks for any info anyone has and the beer is on me. Later.

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Playing a Massive Multiplayer Online Game without PvP is just... how to say... "limited". I mean, if you enjoy lore, quests and so on then you just play some proper role playing game like Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic or whatever is out there nowadays.

If you play purely for cooperative dungeons, raids, quests, then maybe I can get your point. But still it's like playing only half of this game... are you sure you're playing the right game?

lanevegame said:

Playing a Massive Multiplayer Online Game without PvP is just... how to say... "limited". I mean, if you enjoy lore, quests and so on then you just play some proper role playing game like Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic or whatever is out there nowadays.

If you play purely for cooperative dungeons, raids, quests, then maybe I can get your point. But still it's like playing only half of this game... are you sure you're playing the right game?

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Not everyone has the same interpretation when it comes to MMO's or WoW as you do. And telling people to play a different game because they don't like world pvp in wow, just because you think it's essential to the game, makes very little sense.

I've played on PvP servers on and off since 2007, and on private servers since Nos launched. Probably about 95% of the pvp I've experienced has been getting ganked by a max lvl char, somebody who is higher lvl than me, when I'm low hp or mp or by groups of people. Am I complaining about it? No. But since in my experience that's mostly all that world pvp is, I personally can't really see how it's essential to the game, but I understand if others do.

As an example, I recently got killed twice by 2 max lvl chars who were running around killing everybody (would've been more but I went somewhere else). Again, not complaining about it, but did it make me feel like I'm getting the full WoW experience? Not really. The quest I was doing did.

Got to remember people love a fresh server, whether PvE or PvP. Nos beat Kronos to the release race and gained the population, even though their scripting is far below Kronos' standards. Nos is now going to release a PvE server that had nearly 2k people log onto.

Kronos had a unique opportunity to try to gain those players first but unfortunately will now have to wait until Nos releases a dire BWL to gain anymore players from there. Meanwhile, a lot will be playing on the PvE server, myself included - yeah I'm a carebear who likes to watch tv more than my back

I don't think Kronos has made a bad call, but it's a shame to see such a good server not get the population it deserves.

Jonte said:

I will honestly start playing on the Nost PvE server once it goes up at least. I think it will be a nice change of pace actually, and more mature people tend to gather at the PvE realms.

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I hope you're right. We need to remember it's not just a PvE server, it's PvE server by Nostrils.

I logged in on Sunday and this is what I saw in the human starting area: About 2 dozen people, of which half were naked, dancing on the fences (nothing wrong with that by itself I know), retarded spam in every possible chat and another 1-2 dozen, of which half naked, on /follow to some guy who yelled mature things like "we'll f**k your mom's tonight".

I don't personally have high hopes when it comes the maturity of the server.

No-one should tell anyone else what to like, ever. I don't agree with pointing fingers and calling PvEers whiners, moaners and the likes, they're just players who want to have the chance to relive the same experience they had back in the day on their retail PvE realms. They enjoyed that kind of gameplay, and are simply demanding for the chance to enjoy it again.

There's no need to start a new PvE server, it could actually be harmful for current Kronos. But a hybrid one, that could reach its purpose in a subtle and (imho) elegant way, i.e. offering the option to select what kind of realm to play on (PvP or PvE) during the server selection step of character creation, would be really nice and have much to gain from, for everyone. PvEers wouldn't notice they ended up on the same realm regardless of their choice (I'm considering this from a newcomer's standpoint), and PvPers could still engage in free combat other PvPers (i.e. those who did the same choice as them), or those PvEers who should take up the fight. It's not like ganks or open world PvP action would disappear altogether.

Granted, a PvPer could be turned off a bit upon encountering some enemy who's PvE tagged and therefore impossible to attack, yet since there would also be PvEers in his own faction, and of course he would end up grouping with them too sooner or later, for dungeons and raids and BGs... having many PvEers join Kronos would still be a win-win thing, which PvPers themselves might benefit from.

@ Zindai - I agree completely with this part that u wrote ---> "If the team would decide to go with mixed flags, outside players who want to skip open world PvP will have to choose between "blizzlike PvE realm on a server with very high population" and "partially blizzlike PvP/PvE solution on a server with medium population". The same goes for potential PvP players."


@ lanevegame - exactly, dunno how ppl can enjoy WARcraft without being in any threat from the oppsite faction...

@ Metta - Yeah the fact that Nost's pve realm is gonna get a good population isn't all due to it being "normal", it's just that a lot of people like fresh starts indeed.

@ Coutale - Indeed the community is ......... on Nost.

@ Aurigon - u still beating the dead horse idea

Also I've heared "Nosferatu" is gonna add an extra race called "pigmanwithwings", what's Kronos gonna do about it?!

Well if the realm can adjust to whatever mode a player picks during character creation, it won't make any difference to PvEers. As I said, it would just appear as a PvE realm to all of them, regardless of what other players should actually choose. It would be a subtle change, even concealed to them, if you wish.

It's a dead horse to you, to me it isn't ^^ Our perspectives are too apart, you're an ideologist while I'm a pragmatist, your view in the end only wants to safeguard a couple dozen gankers (at best), my idea could affect hundreds of new players; you're after your personal taste for PvP at all costs, I'm putting my preferences aside for what could make Kronos population skyrocket; you prefer to put 1 minute a day to vote, I prefer taking several hours to write a Kronos vs. Nost wall of text :tongue: We're different, our views are as much different :wink:

Gankers are not the only people engaging in world PvP

If it was up to me, we would all be PvPers at heart... but I'm thinking of the realm's possibilities over my personal taste. I only want Kronos not to fall behind Nost. We're not large enough for a new PvE realm, and we can't afford to lose players over to them because they can provide something we cannot. So the hybrid solution would be perfect to me, I can live with not being able to attack a PvEer in a contested zone if the realm could gain 500-1000 players out of that. Absolutely.

@ Aurigos - You wrote that wall of text with a reason and quite some time ago. I have played here enough to see quite a lot of what's going on and what isn't and could very well write a similar wall of text, in fact in our previous argument i did write walls of text. It's just that you assume (with arbitrary 500 - 1000 numbers) that this would bring us more people. I TRULY do not think it would, since all you need to do is just look at Nost. They got high pop cos they released b4 Kronos, they were a pvp realm...did that stop any pvers from rolling there? No. Changing the realm to pve or some weird unblizzlike mix system isn't gonna increase the pop mate. ( Fine let's not argue again, let's just agree to disagree). Besides as mentioned before, most people start on a new realm cos it feels fresh and they have the chance of being realm first in many things, not cos it's pve. Nost had to make another realm anyway, cos their first one was bloody unplayable with all the lag. Atleast i vote every day, without no rewards. That's better then imagining things on some forum

Also why do u keep claiming that u'r such a pvp lover, while ur main is ranked "private" ? xD
Kronos ain't falling behind man, it already WAS behind, cos Nost released earlier, but i don't consider us being behind even when the pop is smaller...who the heck wants those trolling scrub clowns from Nost anyway xD

Zindai got to the gist of why the hybrid would be pointless really well, read his post mate, besides Gurky already said that there are no plans for a pve realm, so this topic has been uttered meaningless

Marcusius said:

Kronos ain't falling behind man, it already WAS behind, cos Nost released earlier, but i don't consider us being behind even when the pop is smaller...who the heck wants those trolling scrub clowns from Nost anyway xD

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This.

I wrote the comparative dossier to bring as many people as possible from ED to Kronos, and went through it whole again and updated it in order to publish it here and help the realm grow further. It wasn't a mere wall of text the likes of which anyone here could very well write (it only takes few dozen minutes to make a wall of text on a forum, while it took me two weeks of working around the clock, testing on both realms, collecting data and screenshots and writing everything down in a coherent shape to make a rigorous and thorough review). You're playing into the enemy's hands if you belittle my efforts or imply that I could have done everything for my own personal gain (while I actually lost hours of actual gameplay and fun).

I assumed PvEers from Nost might be drawn into trying out Kronos if a good reason was given to them. Their PvE realm had a turnout of 1700 players on its first test, I supposed 30% (pessimistic) through 60% (optimistic) of them could join here instead, hence why the 500-1000 estimate. The actual number could be significantly lower or higher, who knows. I balanced that out.

We all know why Nost has a higher population and why they're releasing a new realm. You can't claim to know what the outcome would be if Kronos turned hybrid, nothing like this was ever attempted, hence you were never there to see it failing that you could say "it's not gonna work mate". You're entitled to your opinion, but you need to recognize that your opinion is worth as much as mine until either of us is proven wrong by facts. In fact, the only proven fact here is that Chero has been willing in the past to cast aside the stale concept of blizzlike to introduce conveniences that aren't blizzlike at all (character AH, cross-faction mounts, respec cost cap lowered by 90%, altered timeline of content release), yet they didn't kill the realm, none blamed them on Chero and they have remained to this day.

I keep claiming that I'm a PvP lover because that's what I am, plain and simple. I hope you won't force me to go find the thread that was made on Feenix before ED even released where I would vehemently advocate a PvP realm. The rank doesn't mean anything (moreover that isn't even my main lol)... if anything, the fact I level so slow is the strongest evidence that I care for the social/community side of the game more than the pixels that my toon equips or the small number by its portrait.

Kronos is behind Nost, true, indeed what I'm trying to do here is something that I hope could reduce the gap between them. If our PvEers are left with but one option they'll just go after it, as some people here have claimed they will, and the gap will widen. Don't be shortsighted, don't call them scrubs, you're not simply losing people to PvP against, there's PvEers in the Alliance too... you're losing people to group with, go to dungeons with, hell even join BGs with ("BGs" i.e. "PvP content", eh the irony...).

I've read what Zindai wrote with the highest attention, as I do with any post. Not only that, I even went further, trying to figure out how a hybrid realm would concretely present itself to both categories of players. PvEers would pick the PvE option, they would level up while never getting ganked and could even get to 60 while being 100% unaffected by the "PvP portion" of the realm, to the point they could even remain unaware of its very existence before long, technically. PvPers would pick the PvP option, and could only realize there's unattackable, unflagged enemies in the first contested zone they should set foot in (e.g. Redridge), and they would likely be level 20ish by then. Oh, sure enough, if you think the PvPers are the majority by a fair lot, PvEers being therefore considerably fewer, they could realize the hybrid nature of the realm even later. This is rather self-explanatory and logical. Hence why I said the change would be subtle and (imho) elegant and intelligent.

Finally, Gurky said there's no plan for a PvE realm? So what new! I said myself we can't afford a new realm. To me it was never about a new realm in the first place. So there's no such thing as utterly meaningless topics, just utterly meaningless remarks, in this case at least :tongue:

Hybrid realm will chase off more than it will bring.

We aren't being shortsighted, pvpers will leave and less pve players will come to fill the void that was left.

It's a 'middle ground'(which never existed and would have to be created from the bottom up) that changes the original feel of the game. reduced respecs, cross faction mounts, toon auction, none of these make an impact on other people's gameplay as your idea would. also content release being 'unblizzlike' is a silly point to make, no server ever has pulled that sort of thing off to the T.

aaand it's more ammo for kronos haters to dissuade other potential players. No, wait, its a freakin' howitzer cannon for those guys.

ultimately I just wish you would stop claiming that the counterpoints made against your idea are subjective and opinionated, because
1. most of what is said here by anyone is subjective/biased
2 you are basing your numbers off of beta and release, everyone knows numbers skyrocket, greatly dwindle down and then even out.

I have a gut feeling that pvp players tend to play the game longer without burning out or getting tired of content as well. Point being it would suck if we cater to a minimal populace that wasnt hyped or appreciative enough to stick around to use it.

also, yeah, would quit a server where I can't fight and win for resource gains. meeting down the middle isnt always bad but in this case I feel it would disrupt more than it would help the server.

please stop repeating yourself moradin? we get it already

I do not think a ‘hybrid’ realm will bring any new player, or prevent players to choose for the nost PvE server.
The hybrid realm will just make this server into some kind of PvE server, nobody really wants. Sorry Moradin, I am not with you this time. :no:

But I have concerns what this nost PVE server will do to the population of this server, I think people from nost and from Kronos that want to do PvE will be attracted to this server. On nost there will be enough people left for a decent PvP server, on Kronos I doubt this.

I am also thinking to join this PvE server from nost, at least I will try it for some period.
Although I like Kronos very much, and I really think the quality of the server is much better then nost, I am afraid what this PvE server will do to the population.
Currently it takes already quite some time and effort to get a group for ST for example. I am already 3 days trying to get a group. Most of the time I get 2-3 people in it.. But a full group is hard.
If people will leave to join the PvE, this will even get harder in the future.
I am not a raider, but really like to do 5-man’s instance.. I get the feeling that Kronos will turn into some kind of hard-core raiding server..
If nost PvE will become a server with always between 1000-2000 people online, this will become a serious threat for Kronos.

I am also thinking to join this PvE server from nost, at least I will try it for some period.

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I will try that too, I hate world PvP with a passion :rolleyes2:

Well I have stated my points clearly enough I believe, needless to say I only have the greater good of Kronos in mind whenever I make a suggestion, and if I kept explaining myself over and over again is because I strongly believe the pros would outweigh the cons.

The freedom to choose the kind of gameplay everyone wants would bring many more people than those who should eventually find out what it's all about and ragequitted the realm for good at their first unattackable PvEer. Plus it's a feature that shouldn't be advertised in any way, it would work discreetly and in a subtle way. Yet again, this path was never tested so everyone can feel absolutely confident about their hopes and fears, myself included.

Such a solution should at least be tried, imho, however that's up to Chero and what his feelings will be about how Nost PvE realm is going to affect our playerbase (should that ever be the case).

I cba reading ur walls Aurigos, cos i know that if i did, i'd have to write a wall myself and i just cba. I'm not saying that what u wrote was directed at me, but you're pretty much repeating urself probably anyway, so once again, i'ma say how it is. A dead horse. All of these points have been discussed and you're the ONLY person who's towing this dead horse, just let it go man, noone's interested and stop worrying so bloody much about nostshitrius.

Sorry but quantity over quality. 90% of players don't know what is blizzlike and you can do whatever you want , bugged spells, wrong mechanics bugged bosses, bugs, exploits anything is ok becuase of that. And nobody cares because they have friends and can kill some mobs or each other and if its bugged? Ok , nvm is fine. Who cares.

@ clouet
1)Who is "we"? Speak for yourself.
2)You come on the Kronos forum after playing here and seeing the superior quality and then gloat about leaving? Lol. Also "keep your low pop pvp server"? You do realize you CAN pve in here right. I mean seriously do ppl think that the TAG of the realm means that there's only pve or only pvp going on in it...like LOL? The tag only means if u can kill members of the opposite faction out in contested and friendly territories...that's literally it. How is that stopping u from pve-ing?
Also the realm ain't low pop. During peak times it's around 1,1k players on which is average pop for a classic retail realm during launch. I hope you realize that having 7 k ppl on 1 realm fucks the game up in many ways and is not blizzlike at all. U trolling?

@Mosotti
Yes let's all believe these stats, because they come from the most trustworthy source ever right? Nost has been known for faking their online numbers, they even add items to the AH. This is making it sound like those 67% - meaning about 1675 people were just waiting in cryo-pods or whatever and as soon as they saw a new nost realm, they went there. I mean cmon... xD Besides the tagging has almost nothing to do with realm pop. The only reason it got 2,5 k ppl is cos most of them prolly came from their main realm which in itself got that many ppl cos it launched in a bugged state just before Kronos to get ahead. (That fact already tells me all i need to know about that realm). + ppl like fresh starts, so even if they opened another pvp tagged realm, it would have also gotten the same amount of ppl, maybe even more (speculating).

@forerun
Huh? Loads of people care, hence why they report it in bugtrackers. If you're some newb ( no offense, i just mean that u might be new to the game and not know much about it) and don't know what's what then you won't even realize if it's bugged or not, but intelligent players who want a real blizzlike experience and want to play in a non shitty realm, will report bugs and care a lot about the quality. I'd rather have 300 spartans then 3000 clowns. Quantity > quality.

I'm not sure tarring everyone with the same brush is going to achieve much, or anything at all.

Nost's PvE realm tests burst with people? Their numbers are not trustworthy and/or altogether fake.
Players prefer a PvE realm over a PvP one? They shouldn't be playing a game called WARcraft etc.
Anyone has a different opinion than mine? They're probably just trolls.
Nost has much more players? Then they must all be unintelligent clowns.

The smell of fanboyism is strong there. I'm a Kronos supporter and for a PvP realm at heart, nevertheless I think we should look at things with unbiased eyes. Nost move is definitely a clever one, period. They're going to offer people an option we can't afford ourselves - not in the same way - an option that will probably relieve their main realm and redistribute their population, draw people from here, and grant them an experience closer to their likings. Furthermore, if the PvE realm numbers keep up to what those tests showed, that's going to be the final proof that what some people here rushed to call a dead horse in their shortsightedness, was actually a sleeping thoroughbred.

All we can do, if nothing is done to cater to those players, is hoping that the side effect won't affect us too much. Kronos population is decent, not solid. Its numbers are neither decreasing nor increasing, they're remaining constant (also known as stagnation): Kronos census page is one of my default tabs. Above all, we should never forget that (low) population is exactly what killed Kronos previous iteration, so we must be wary of underestimating numbers. I come from ED so I know for a fact population is the first indication of a realm's long-term longevity.

4 pages of 'personal opinion' doesnt mean so much, and ran right over Gurky.
Maybe a Dev response would resolve it all

I think that if they want to take a step back from the current design, and say "maybe we will think these changes over", that's totally okay. Please speak out!
Unfortunately though, too many people will take it as a promise. Despite everything Chero & co. has done, there's still have so much to do in regards to eventually refining the server to as perfect as possible, and that also includes major content releases.
I just don't see them putting themselves through all the stress to create this system from the ground up, smash all the bugs, and deal with the consequences and whine, on top of keeping the server moving forward.

KILL THIS THREAD

Yes let's all believe these stats, because they come from the most trustworthy source ever right? Nost has been known for faking their online numbers, they even add items to the AH.

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None of the things said about Nos were ever proved, there are videos with the said "proofs" on their own forums, so you can imagine how hard the censorship is there. There's nothing fake about their overcrowded PvP server, really. But more importantly there's absolutely no reason for them to lie about their PvE test server, they don't even allow transfers.

You don't seem to get the reason why so many people want a PvE server (and you try to minimize the difference between a PvE and a PvP server) here it is: THEY HATE WORLD PVP. Simply put, if they kill some pixel murloc they absolutely hate to have an overpowered ****** coming from behind and chop them to pieces before they even know wtf happens. And they absolutely hate to have that happening 20 times in a row. Now you might not be able to understand this little concept of hating world PvP, but it's real. On retail roughly half the population is on PvE servers and the other half obviously on PvP servers. More than that, almost nobody gives a flying fuck about world PvP on the PvP servers either, but that's another issue.

Kronos should have been a PvE server from the beginning, not compete with an already notorious PvP server that already grabbed almost all the population that wasn't already aware of Kronos. Now there's really nothing they can do, they can't have another PvE server because that would destroy the existing PvP server which struggles with the population, and they can't change the existing server because that would be a shit move for the PvP lovers playing on it.

The thing is that if Kronos has a peak EU population of 1.1k and a horrible peak NA population of "nearly unplayable", if a PvE server opens up with capped 2.5k players in all regions, with battlegrounds and dungeons very easy to find, I think it's gonna get much worse for Kronos. Fortunately (or unfortunately) we don't have much to wait to find out who's better at predictions...

but intelligent players who want a real blizzlike experience and want to play in a non shitty realm

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Nos is not shitty and all those people are not all morons that never played in vanilla. They just don't give a fuck about some minor bugs if they have to trade for that the population. I don't play on Nos and I never did, but I'm not arrogant enough to call all those people *****s. Sure there are *****s, like those that come here and troll, but those can be counted on one hand... The only problem I see with Nos is the population, not its technical status

There is no "blizzlike" in the private servers world, it's just a marketing word, a myth. Kronos is far away from "blizzlike" too, if you really look at it objectively.

KILL THIS THREAD

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Right, that will make the problem go away :laugh:

@ Aurigon
1.Their numbers are untrustworthy.
2.Never said anything about playing a game called WARcraft here.
3.People who play here and then say negative things about Kronos and act like they will leave for Nost and gloat about it = trolls in my book, it's got nothing to do with having different opinions.
4.I didn't say all, but just go there and take a look. This is how it usually is with big, bugged realms (just like Molten was).
U don't have to come on every thread and seek me out to try and argue with me, srsly it's getting old.

The rest of what you're saying is pure speculation and repeating your dead horse idea with different words.
No population is not an indicator of a realm's long term longevity. TrueWoW, DalaranWoW - both have around 400 ppl on at cap, maybe 500 and yet they've been going for ages. Also solid/decent...semantics.

@Spazztastic
KILL THIS THREAD - indeed

@Mosotti
Trust me the censorship is hard there, criticism about their realm are mainly deleted (a miracle if a thread like that is not noticed). Yes there is plenty of fake about their pvp realm and you obviously don't know if they have a reason to lie about it or not ( ofc they do, don't be naive ), unless you're a part of their staff.
The ppl not caring about world pvp on retail has nothing to do with this, becasue world pvp died with classic mostly anyway ( we ARE in classic here). So this has nothing to do with that.
Also 20 times a row? Yeah right...
Also they reason why half the ppl on retail are in the servers they are, is becasue that's how Blizz put the servers out. If they'd all be tagged "pvp", then all the ppl would be in there and if they'd all be tagged "normal", then all the ppl would be in there. Most ppl don't give a shit about the tag and just go the the realm which's name they like, or where they might have some friends.

Umm no Kronos doesn't struggle with population, there's more then 1 k on during peak, that's avg retail classic realm pop. Stop comparing everything with unrealistic Nost pop, which is like 4 retail classic realms worth of ppl piled into one.

There's not gonna be the same amount of ppl on even in nost, during EU and NA peak, it's always way bigger during EU peak.

I think Kronos players enjoy the quality and (semi) mature community here and won't give 2 craps about that sketchy server opening up a new realm tbh.

Nost IS shitty for many reasons, i even made a post about it that went into detail and there's an even more in depth post on the forums somewhere too. Never thought they're all "morons" or whatever word u used, but a there's a lot of spammers, trolls, douchebags, and just toxic ppl there (from experience).

Thanks for reading

This thread is literally pages of people who are butthurt because they got killed in STV. Stop being so bad kkthxbye