Warrior Strength of Ironfoe / Felstriker on Kronos?

[UDdruid]

On nostalrius it seems like the consensus was that Ironfoe was a very strong weapon (but possibly not BIS for BWL content) but that felstriker was underwhelming.

How is the procrates on this server and how do these weapons stack up? On feenix the combination might have been close to BIS for AQ40 content and that's why i wonder if it is very viable here.

 

[Lharts]

Felstriker is 3% instead of 4%.
Ironfoe was 10% when I tested it.

If you are a warrior and can get your hands on Ironfoe you will be amazed by its performance. 2 extra hits at a 10% chance mean 20% more attack power scaling. So, the stronger your gear the stronger Ironfoe becomes.

NOTE: both weapons are better suited for a warrior then rogue. Only WW relies on max damage.

 

[Hotslice]

It's pretty good. Planning on trying out Anubisath Warhammer offhand in AQ. Not sure if it will be better or not. I don't plan on replacing Ironfoe until Naxx.

I need to pay closer attention to my SWstats to see how much average crit Felstriker is actually giving me.

 

[vido]

Let's assume you're playing horde which is the worst case scenario for this weapon due to procs being wasted on hamstring and you have a higher specials to whites ratio. Since yellows are on a two roll table felstriker is much less effective on yellow compared white swings.

Now we take an average figure for a warrior and say you get roughly 1.7 melee connects per second, and have 40% crit chance.

A felstriker has about 0.95 OH connects per second (factoring in hit chance) and with proc rate of 3% this procs 0.029 times a second.

It causes 3 guaranteed crits i.e., converts hits + dodge + miss into crits on white swings (single roll table) and hits + misses into crits on yellow swings (two roll).

Of that 1.7 about 1/3rd are specials and assuming you're special hit capped and in this case it's only going to increase your crit rate by 55% effectively after you account for dodged crits.

On your white swings which account for 2/3rds of connects, it will increase your crit by 60% on a single roll table which converts hits AND misses + dodges into crits.

We're looking at 1.55 modifier on on yellows (ignoring impale, since this will compared to effective crit rate anyway) and 1.6+1.50(misses+dodges turned into crits on a single roll table) on whites.

0.029/1.7 gives that 1.7% of connects will proc felstriker. Let's assume that 2 procs will overlap so rarely that it's negligible, so 1.7% * 3 swings gives that 5.1% of connects will be under the effect of a proc.

1/3*1.55+2/3*2.10=1.92 overall modifier. 1% crit is a 2.07% overall modifier in this case, so if you want compare it to an effective crit chance it's 1.92/2.07*5.1 = 4.75% crit equivalent.

 

[Hotslice]

Let's assume you're playing horde which is the worst case scenario for this weapon due to procs being wasted on hamstring and you have a higher specials to whites ratio. Since yellows are on a two roll table felstriker is much less effective on yellow compared white swings.

Please clarify/elaborate on both of these statements.

 

[vido]

Actually I forgot to address that later in my post. Since WF procs from hamstring, it's becomes an incredibly more efficient rage dump than heroic strike not to mention increased crusader uptime/flurry uptime/more overpowers.

Ideally you should be able to fit around 0.3 hamstring connects per second and I'm quite sure that these are going to eat up your procs. 0.3/1.7 is around 20% wasted felstriker procs on hamstring crits, so a crit equivalent estimate would be closer to under 4%.

To explain attack tables somewhat, white swings are on a single roll table and for example dodge/miss/parry/block chance will take precedence over hit/crit/glancing blows/crushing blows and stuff like crit takes precedence over hit obviously. With this hierarchy in mind lets say for example, a random number is generated between 1-100. If the number is 1-5 then it's a dodge, 5-18 miss, 18-40 hit, 40-60 crit, 60-100 glancing. Now if you increase the crit rate by 30% it takes precedence over hit, knocking it off the table however it's lower in priority than miss/glancing/dodge so you're capped at 5-40 i.e. 35% in this situation. (as far as I can tell felstriker procs take precedence over miss/dodge/parry/glancing)

Special attacks (yellow swings) are quite different and are on a two roll system where first your chance to connect is determined which is in most cases just 100%-5.6% dodge giving a 94.4% chance to hit. Then the second roll is applied based on your crit chance to determine whether it's a normal hit or a crit.

A good example to distinguish a single and two roll table is a blocked crit, in which case the first roll lands on a block and then the second lands on a crit. On a single roll table this is impossible, since you can only roll once into a block or a crit.

 

[Jahreno]

Felstriker probably isnt worth it IMHO, because in kronos armor values are blizzlike, Offhand weapon is more than just a ragefeeding statstick, it actually does considerable damage.

However Ironfoe...

2.4 speed with %80+ flurry uptime, battle chicken, juju flurry and head/leg enchants, also 10BTs/5WW and a few OP per minute would get you about 48-52 Main hand attacks that can trigger the proc.

In short, with %10-11 proc chance you will be getting 5 procs per minute if you are buffed to the teeth.

Thats 10 extra white hits, with Main hand which benefits from AP %100.

Assuming you are human with %12 hit, %85 glancing blow damage, 2.1k AP, %40 crit (those values are easily attainable with world buffs).

from hit table
%15 miss>%6~ dodge>%40 glances(that do %85 damage so its %34)>%39 crit(%78)
%112

So, with those hit/crit values you are doing 1.12 of your normal MH damage by average on every hit.

with 2100 AP, %5 DMF(or sillithyst, this can be much higher ofc) , (73-136 + 2.4*2100/14)*1.05 = 455 - 521
(488 average damage)

488*1.12*10=5464 damage per minute =~ 91 DPS (Keep in mind this value will be reduced by armor)

This is what my calculations show me, it grants you about 91 Dps(Before mitigation) at the cost of losing some 15-20 Main hand dps as well as negligible WW/OP damage loss. You also get a chance to generate rage with your Main hander while using HS/Cleave. It's probably amazing...

NOW IF ONLY IT DROPPED

(please correct any assumption/calculation i have done wrong in this post)

 

[Hotslice]

Interesting, I didn't realize that melee specials used a two roll system.

However, I disagree with your statement about Hamstring "eating up" Felstriker procs. If I am using hamstring, it is because BT/WW are on cooldown and I have extra rage. Otherwise I would be doing nothing. Normally during this time I would be using Heroic Strike to dump rage, so a Felstriker proc wouldn't be a total waste. You state that Hamstring is more efficient to use as a rage dump because of the change to proc Windfury. Well, a Windfury proc during a Felstriker proc still benefits from the 100% crit. So Hamstring doesn't become any worse relatively during the Felstriker proc duration.

 

[Jahreno]

A good example to distinguish a single and two roll table is a blocked crit, in which case the first roll lands on a block and then the second lands on a crit. On a single roll table this is impossible, since you can only roll once into a block or a crit.

I think this is somewhat wrong. Normally there is no such thing as a dodged critical strike, or a missed glancing blow. Only exception is a blocked crit which only works for players' attacks, and it can happen with whites as well as yellows. Its there so players can still critically hit in pve or pvp.

Ie. You can remove Critical strikes/Crushing blows from the hit table of a creature by stacking avoidance above %102.4, but you cant do the same in PvP, because players can still crit with both whites and yellows despite having their attack blocked. The block chance against player attacks do not push the Crit off of the hit table, thats how it works. The extra that would be pushed off becomes another event "blocked crit" and roll is still single.

 

[vido]

Players don't do crushing blows in the first place. Block should push off white crits from the attack table, it doesn't matter if it's a mob or player white attacks are single roll.

Mob/player special attacks are both two roll. The first roll is for dodge/miss/parry/block, if it's a dodge/miss/parry it end there, if it's a block or otherwise you then have a second roll to determine if it's a crit or regular hit.

Glancing blows only apply to white attacks hence a single roll table, so if you're giving an example of a missed glancing blows I think you're slightly confused.

 

[Jahreno]

Its just some random combination of 2 different events in hit table. Any 2 events in hit table never occur together with only exception being player blocked crits, but even then its still a single roll.

This isnt D&D, you dont roll again to see whether its a crit, you just roll a 10^n sized dice with fixed(absolute) values of certain events happening in a certain order(aka the hit table). Special attacks do not have crushing/glancing in their table, as well as not suffering the %19 off-hand penalty(speaking with D&D terms). But even then its only a single roll.
As far as i know the only exception to how absolute hit table works was Illidian's shear which didnt have miss on its hit table.

Btw I find these type of stuff fascinating to talk about, maybe i know it wrong but still wanna learn anyway.

 

[vido]

Well you can look at any resource on the game these days, and you'll find that special attacks are on a two roll system. I'd recommend landsoul's warrior encyclopedia post on EJ, the amount of information is staggering.

All of this has been confirmed by official blizzard sources at this point including the attack table sequence and so on. Even back in vanilla there was an official blizz post on white attacks being based on a single roll.



Melee abilities are handled like a spell by the server, it makes it looks like a melee attack with dodge, parry, block etc, but it's just a special case.

In case someone doesn't know how spells work, first there's a check for miss or hit and then a second roll for a crit/partial resist/leftover hit. After the first roll your crit/leftover hit and partial resist chance is spawned from that determination.

If you compare it side by side, melee abilities use the same system just with stuff like dodge/parry/miss/block rather than just spell miss on the first roll and obviously melee can't be partially resisted so that leaves just crit and leftover hit for the second roll. This was explained by a blizzard dev unofficially back in vanilla even, if you look at it this way it makes so much sense.



Combat formulas have hardly changed throughout the years apart from tweaked numbers and such to account for stuff weapon/defense skill being removed from items, hit/exp cap on bosses in WOD etc. Glancing blow formulas are of the same form with different values, different caster and melee class glancing blow formulas existed pre-3.3, hit formulas for every level range, parry haste and so on.

Making white attacks based on a single roll was mainly just a way for the devs to reduce server load.

 

[vido]

Btw to stay on topic, in case anyone is wondering, a 3% proc rate on felstriker would put it above CHT, CTS and on par with an EoC for races without the corresponding weapon spec.

On a human or orc, brutality blade/Hakkar OH/CTS and Doom's Edge/EoC are better offhands respectively.